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mojede
Trad climber
Butte, America
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Sep 18, 2009 - 12:10am PT
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In Montana, after midnight the highways are nearly empty, making single vehicle roll-overs the number one killer here (80%). I pull over quickly if I am driving in new or unfamiliar areas, but generally use eKat's (and her Father's) method of putting on the driving hat when behind the wheel and going into trucker/Nascar mode--being as professional as possible. Being a passenger however, I crash into REM shortly after conversation ends (trust in the driver) and am of no good on long hauls--it's better to let me drive if you want someone always awake behind the wheel, Mtn. Dew anyone.
I did have an incident as a newish driver coming back to the Bay Area from skiing Squaw all day, and the only thing that woke me were the Botz Dots on 280? near Sunnyvale (home). Scared the shite out of me--from then on my driving became more vigilant.
Rough ordeal to go through, Donini.
edit: (OP answer) so far...
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tom woods
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Sep 18, 2009 - 12:29am PT
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Driving while fighting sleep feels terrible. It's up there with nausea.
I did it just yesterday. It had been a while. This one sucked because I had been working since 4:30 am and still had to drive to finish work. Otherwise I would have pulled over.
I've learned the close call lesson enough. I knew I should pull over under a tree, I wanted to pull over under a tree, but damn I had to get back to work.
I feel I should apologize, as I could have killed my self, and who knows who else out on 395.
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hoipolloi
climber
A friends backyard with the neighbors wifi
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Sep 18, 2009 - 12:49am PT
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Sunflower seeds.
These are key for me. Gum does not work, it gets pushed to the side of the mouth and forgotten about. But I tell you, Sunflower seeds keep the mouth and mind working and do an amazing job of keeping me awake and going.
But still, there is a point were pulling over and taking a nap is the right thing to do, for yourself and for everyone else on the road.
Don't die, don't kill others. Just take the nap.
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WBraun
climber
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Sep 18, 2009 - 12:59am PT
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So .....
It's safe to say; "Everyone is falling asleep at the wheel"
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Big Piton
Trad climber
Ventura
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Sep 18, 2009 - 01:03am PT
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I am falling in line with the problem of driving tired. I got to the point it didn't matter if I hit the road in the morning leaving YV. By the time I was south of Fresno I would be sleepy.
Then I heard on some show about this problem. The Doc or just someone smarter then most said that you should build up a sleeping "bank". Get as much sleep for three or four days before your trip. It works for me.
Coffee driving = I would drive to an area the night before class. Then when I got there I would be wide awake. Got little sleep then guided all day half a sleep. I couldn't wait to go to sleep after guiding all day.
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zeta
Trad climber
Bezerkly
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Sep 18, 2009 - 01:49am PT
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i used to have a problem with this a lot--still do...a long drive solo with a big open horizon and hot beating sun just begins to make me sleepy..
But I *used to* do things like chew gum, blast the radio, drink copious amounts of coffee, blast the A/C, slap my thighs...and still it only partially worked. Had enough close calls in my 20s that now I know better.
I always pull over and sleep in a parking lot. Every time, no matter the time, no matter how close I am to home. Most of the time I only need about 20-30 minutes of sleep, then walk around the car or gas station, hydrate and then start driving again. Nothing is that important that it can't wait a bit of time.
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Sep 18, 2009 - 02:59am PT
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good thread here Nutjob!
I would rather die on a climb.
Donini- wow, a true testament to the dangers that can await us all at the end of the day. I am sorry for your loss.
Mucci
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
Sprocketville
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Sep 18, 2009 - 03:08am PT
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if the camp rates drop in half for sunday night,
you just kick it and stay over the extra night,
everybody does the rat race to get home to their stinkin job to earn their pay
they leave stuff behind, which goes in your trunk
you leave early morning or whatever you have to do to beat the traffic
and start your stinkin job and get your pay.
you get an extra night in the sticks and fresh air
i;m jus sayin...\
camp lotus on the Am river is 5 bucks on sunday , so wtf, over?
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Dr. Duct Tape
Trad climber
La Honda, CA
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Sep 18, 2009 - 03:21am PT
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If you read the studies by Drs. Dement and Powell you will find that driving while sleep-deprived is as dangerous as driving drunk. Driving faster will only work for a while and then you will be even more exhausted when the adrenalin wears off. Many drivers experience "micro-sleep" and fortunately wake up before fatal consequences. Others do not and it can happen in seconds, even if you are hauling ass with the windows down and the stereo turned up. Pull Over!
Many people have lousy sleep to begin with, even fit climbers. If you have a sleep disorder, your chances of a sleep-related accident are much greater. Take the time to do an Epworth Sleepiness Scale on yourself and see if you have a problem:
http://www.stanford.edu/~dement/epworth.html
If your score is over 10, then you may have a serious problem. Sleep disorders, especially sleep apnea can lead to unexplained weight gain, poor physical & mental performance, progressive dementia and even sudden-death arrythmia. I lost a good friend to this. He was a fit climber/kayaker one of the best disaster physicians this country has ever known.
The best treatment for sleepy driving is rest. Take an extra day off if you plan to do a weekend epic. If you are that dedicated to climbing then you should not let your work schedule increase your risk. Think of it as another important form of acclimatization or decompression.
If you have no choice in the matter, which you realy do, you can try caffiene. For many people, Red Bull works better, probably because it doesn't have high-fructose corn sweetener and is less likely to cause a "sugar crash" and because the taurine and inositol in it have a calming (but not sedating) effect. I small can has 81mg of caffiene, which is equal to 1 espresso (drip coffee is about 110mg / cup).
There are "wonder drugs" available called Provigil, and its newer sibling Nuvigil. These provide 8 to 12 hours of "normal" wakefulness without the jitters of caffiene or the paranoia / mania of amphetamines or cocaine. What's more, if you have taken Provigil/Nuvigil and find that you no longer need to stay awake and desire to sleep, you can by simply lying down in a dark and quiet place. This is very helpful to disaster / SAR workers who need to stay awake, but also need to get sleep when they can. These drugs were developed and tested on military pilots and E.R. doctors and nurses with frequent shift changes. They are currently only indicated (i.e. covered by insurance) for improving wakefulness in adult patients with excessive sleepiness associated with narcolepsy, obstructive sleep apnea/hypopnea syndrome, and shift work sleep disorder. They cost $5 to $7 a pill, cheaper than most Starbucks.
I have taken them when I had to drive somewhere with a carload of teenagers after a full work week, leaving late and driving in a blizzard that turned a 4 hour drive into a 7 hour drive. I felt completely alert and calm at the same time with no anxiety about falling asleep. When I finally arrived, I could go to sleep right away if I lay down without distraction. However, if there were interesting people / conversations about, I would just as easily continue to stay up. I found that 8-16 oz of Red Bull is fairly close, but with did not last as long and did not provide as much confidence that I would stay awake. YMMV.
Remember, Sleep is a debt that must be repaid.
Drive Safely,
Rich Lee
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superbum
Trad climber
Bishop, CA
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Sep 18, 2009 - 03:35am PT
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Leaving Montana, bound for home in the Eastern Sierra after some very significant sends in the Tetons and Idaho's Sawtooths found us pushing the peddle to the metal in order to make it to our respective jobs...18 hours nonstop from Polebridge Monana (West Glacier Nat. Park) to 40 miles North of Bishop, Ca I fell asleep at the wheel...
Just a swerve and a jolt of adrenaline kept me from speeding into the sage.
I'd raher drink and drive then sleep and drive....
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Sep 18, 2009 - 09:12am PT
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Again, it's a bad idea.
But if one were to want to stay up for other reasons, dark chocolate covered espresso beans have worked well for me.
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seamus mcshane
climber
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Sep 18, 2009 - 10:40am PT
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Pull the f*#k over!!!
I was lucky to walk away...
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Sep 18, 2009 - 11:01am PT
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I'm very impressed that Jim has come forward with his story. He told me about it years ago and I thought of him after John's accident. Of course he doesn't add that he went and joined the Green Berets, and it may have helped in creating a great climber.
I'm also glad somebody pointed out the rangers' dangerous policy of rousting people that have pulled over.
The dirty little secret of climbing; people say that they should be able to climb because THEY assume the risk, but sadly the general public is endangered by marathon drives.
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Ray-J
Social climber
east L.A. vato...
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Sep 18, 2009 - 11:04am PT
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Wow donini, tough one. So sorry.
Seen some strange stuff on the interstate at night.
Whowee seen some close ones.
Cars...just stopped.
Or, hey, what's than firebird doing crossing the line up there...?
Un real.
Driving is something I throw my civillian mind out for,
And put on the para-military task related one. There
Is special music for calculating in dense traffic, traffic
Strat and a full bag of tricks to avoid idiots.
Keep your eyes on the road.
I do not care if you eat sh#t,
Just don't take me with you.
Number of years driving: age 16 to 52
Number of my fault accidents: 0
Number overall: next to none.
Just had a light rear ender stopped behind
A bus, I was cool, he was cool, scuffs, no damage.
Driver said he was dicking w/ his flip-flop, caught
Under the pedal, when he bumped my humvee.
Think about being in a major crash, trying to escape
In phuking flip flops.
Watch the road.
End of rant
Happy trails. :)
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AbeFrohman
Trad climber
new york, NY
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Sep 18, 2009 - 11:10am PT
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I used to do a lot of field work along the Hudson River. My boss and I would drive up from Long Island at around 4 or 5AM. we'd drive home after a long day out in the sun. We would responsibly take turns driving home. But which ever of us WASN'T driving, would fall asleep riding shotgun, but FORGET they werent driving, and startle awake with a big GASP! and grab at the windshield. Funny stuff to watch from the driver's seat.
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andy@climbingmoab
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Sep 18, 2009 - 11:30am PT
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When i'm tired at all I shut off the cruise control. Whenever I can't maintain a consistent speed or the speed limit starts to feel too high, its nap time.
I once made an awful very little sleep and hungover solo drive from Portland, OR to Park City, UT. I had to pull over to nap a dozen times on that drive. The final one was at the Shopko parking lot in Salt Lake just before starting up the last 15 minutes of interstate to my house. I felt like a tool for having to pull over that close, but sometimes you just have to.
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Josh Higgins
Trad climber
San Diego
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Sep 18, 2009 - 11:42am PT
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It wasn't a climbing trip, but I passed out driving home from a friend's around 2am. I was whizzing along at 75mph, and woke to my truck trashing through the dirt and instantly started battling the steering wheel for survival. I managed to not roll, and came to a stop with a retaining wall lined up to cut my truck in half about 5' off my bumper. There was construction along the freeway, and the next day when I drove the same stretch of road I realized that of about 15 miles I flew off the road in one of two quarter mile stretches that were relatively flat dirt. Scary sh#t. The truck limped home, and I had a sh#t-eating grin when I paid $1600 dollars for the repairs, because I was alive. I've never pushed my limits since. That line is a fuzzy one, and once you've crossed it and fallen asleep it's just up to dumb luck.
Josh
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Swami Jr.
Trad climber
Bath, NY
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Sep 18, 2009 - 11:55am PT
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thanks for this thread. It makes me wonder if Supertopo would be willing to host a ride share platform for climbing trips. This could cut down on the rope solo driving late at night and also cut down on our gas consumption, which is really considerable given that many of us travel hours to get to yosemite and elsewhere.
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Fletcher
Trad climber
Shivasana
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Sep 18, 2009 - 11:55am PT
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A lot of good suggestions and advice here. I know that heavy lidded feeling and trying to push it through. No mishaps for me, but from now on I'm pulling over.
I've found over the years that diet has an effect on my car sleepiness. If I'm eating a lot of sugary and junk carb type foods, that increases the sleepy factor a lot. Eating protein helps avoid sleepiness. Of course, if I'm dead tired, food choices aren't going to make a difference.
I scored 5 on the sleepy test scale!
Eric
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