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pud
climber
Sportbikeville
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Thanks Batrock!
I stopped looking when it went down the other day.
I rode my MC around the perimeter yesterday (200+ miles). Winds were light SSW making for the worst air I've seen in SG Valley since the 70's.
From Hwy 15 to Valermo through Wrightwood is open. Hwy 2 is closed @ Wrightwood.
Barrel Springs Rd closed @ Mount Emma Road just below Littlerock Dam.
Angeles Forest Hwy closed @ Mount Emma Rd.
Slow burning (constant) fire deep in the SG Wilderness.
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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looking pretty impressive now
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Fletcher
Trad climber
Shivasana
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Wow, the 9:21 pm image is quite dramatic:
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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I have been a fireman for over 20 years now and have been to loads of fires, I got the sh!t kicked out of me at the Sayer Fire last Fall in Sylmar. I am just in awe at the sheer scope of this fire. I wish I could be out on the lines at fires like this instead of running on garage fires in Van Nuys.
Santa Anna season is still ahead, wonder what the future will bring?
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Fletcher
Trad climber
Shivasana
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Thanks for all your contributions and insights, Batrock. Much appreciated from someone who really has first hand experience with these events.
Eric
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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hey there say, fletcher... not sure if you are here this evening or not---or if this was earlier--but good evening to you, if so and, say----thanks for the picture post....
wow, i have not ever seen anything like THAT before...
wheww... not meaning it's good as to having a fire to get one, of course, but:
what a picture (sure gives a view)....
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Fletcher
Trad climber
Shivasana
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Yes, neebee, I am here tonight. :-)
I can see Mt. Wilson from my house. It's only several miles away. But we were never in danger. And in that picture, the fire is heading in the opposite direction. The bit of fire you can see in the lower right corner is probably the part that's near the towns of Sierra Madre and Arcadia.
For all the details, you can check in here:
http://www.inciweb.org/incident/1856/
It is pretty amazing... at least from a distance.
Eric
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Managing fire in wildlands is a real balancing act with perilous "drops" on either side of the issue.
Its a very tough act. And the stakes are high.
Don't know this Newcomb's place, but it seems to have a following.
I guess the thing to remember is that fire is part of the natural cycle. That things DO regrow eventually (sometimes surprisingly quickly), and that Jox and Dean Potter will sometimes make me look pretty good,...lol
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Ron,
A fire like this was inevitable and everyone knew it. Your right about fire being part of the natural cycle, aggressive fire protection is not part of that cycle and is what has caused many of the larger fires in the last 50 years or more due to vegitation growth gone wild. There really are very few structures in the Angeles back country, Newcombs Ranch and the ski areas at Mt. Waterman and Kratka Ridge being just a few. It would be a sad loss for those of us Angelenos who actually do enjoy this back country to see any of these long standing places lost to flame.
It's easy to sit back and say "well, what did you expect?", well we all expected a horrendous fire to rip through here at some point but it still doesnt soften the blow much.
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10b4me
Ice climber
the reticient boulder at the Happies
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I agree with Batrock, fire is part of the natural cycle, and I have no problem if a fire is a result of lightning. It just bums me out to think this might have been arson.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Only days ago and 12 miles north of here several homes burned down when a fire that had been allowed to smolder for a month (the Mill Flat fire) suddenly flared up with sudden winds.
All the residents are whining about "how could they let that happen?" but it very well might turn out that THIS fire (now 85% contained) could have burned off enough fuel so that the next time the cycle of fire comes around the other homes are better off.
The trouble with allowing natural fires to burn is that after decades of indiscriminate suppression the fuel accumulation results in unnatural devastation.
Like I said, its a high stakes balancing act.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Rox is an LA guy who needs to keep reassuring himself (in public, before witnessess) that relocating to Idaho was a good idea. He tends to rant, but I think he's okay at heart.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Rox, get a grip. Letting fires burn is part of current fire philosophy. It cost to much in resources and lives to aggressively fight every fire every minute, plus we do need fires to reduce fuel loads and to help some kinds of vegetation. I can't find the report I read early about the murphy complex fire, but it basically quoted the fire manager who was in charge of fighting that fire as saying they had to back off and try to lead the fire away from homes and business and into less volatile terrain. It was too expensive in terms of cost and lives risked to fight it directly. Plus, after this fire they realized that we needed to let some fires burn to reduce the fuel loads which were a result of too many years of immediate fire suppression. So while it may have been stated poorly, the Station fire is not being fought in same aggressive manner as fires were fought as little as a few years ago. Homes and businesses are being protected, but so are firemen's lives.
Here are some articles to back up what I mean.
http://idahoptv.org/OUTDOORS/shows/wildfire/importanceofaug20.cfm
http://www.consumerfireproducts.com/113
Now this is funny. Here is a report from Idaho that says grazing had virtually no affect in slowing the Murphy complex fire.
http://wolves.wordpress.com/2008/09/04/new-report-says-grazing-had-negligible-effects-on-size-of-murphy-complex-fire/
Here is an article that says that winter rains and snow put out some of the fires from 2007, affectively giving Idaho a SHORTER fire season.
http://www.allbusiness.com/safety-accidents-disasters/disasters-forest-fires/12051711-1.html
..............
So why don't you ease up on this whole Idaho is better the California baloney. eh? And by the way, you make fun of us for losing our tempers. You fully lost yours in your last post. So ease up with the "you are better then we are" bullsh@t.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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And Rox, before you totally lose your mind over some of my statements. I think grazing can be affective in reducing fuel loads.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Rox, I think your anger clouds your mind. I don't think he meant that we needed the complete destruction that these large fires create, such as in Yellowstone where the ash was over 2 feet deep because it burned so hot. I think what he meant is that we need fire to reduce fuel loads and to help certain types of vegetation, and that fire managers are now saying that they will let some areas burn because the area needs to burn to reduce fuel loads, and because some areas are just too dangerous to fight in. So the head guys let fire burn in certain areas and try to direct it towards areas where it is easier to fight. They do this in Idaho also.
This doesn't mean they aren't doing their best, it means that fighting wildfires today takes more into account then simply, "put it out as fast as you can". They take into account the dangers of fighting a fire in certain areas and the types of terrain the fire is in and if it can be headed towards easier terrain. They take into account whether an area needs to burn. They take into account whether their are structures or resources that need to be protected. Plus there are many other variables that currently I am forgetting. It is not a matter of whether they are doing their best or not by letting a fire burn in certain areas, it is a matter of what is best.
Perhaps it was said it poorly, but you certainly seem to take glee in bashing californians, which leads me to believe that you do have a bias and like to think the worst of what a Californian writes, instead of trying to understand their points. I think this is a mistake on your part as you will miss important points, such as the ones batrock made.
Edit: And yes, I didn't finish reading your post because of how much anger was in it. I will go back and read it later. I simply found a point I thought you had misinterpreted, and pointed it out to you.
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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I think Rox needs to work on having that stick removed. It going to be more difficult though now that its lodged sideways.
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jstan
climber
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Earlier on I said something pretty much like what ROK said, though a little less colourfully.
We make an assumption when we think what regrows will be like what just burned. That which burned grew in a climate rather unlike today's climate.
Even here on ST we seem to go for the buzz that we get from artificial drama.
The facts and the real danger, the beef if you will, gets ignored.
This is a real weakness.
Since that day in 1948 when I saw my first TV we all have been watching people taking pratfalls followed by canned laughter,
with never a consequence.
Wake up people.
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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I thought you said it was going to be short?
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