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Gorgeous George
Trad climber
Los Angeles, California
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Wow, enjoyed many good hamburgers, french fries, and cold beers at this place. It was the way station for climbing, mountain biking, or motorcycling trips up the Angeles Crest. Hope they rebuild it.
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Redwreck
Social climber
Echo Parque, Los Angeles, CA
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Aw f*#k. I ride my motorcycle on the Crest a lot and a stop at Newcombs is a key part of the ritual.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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The area around Newcomb's is beautiful. It's a tragedy it's going up in smoke.
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SIMONBENTLEY
Ice climber
JOSHUA TREE
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This is indeed sad news . Newcombs Ranch has always been special to everyone who played in the San Gabriels .
I know they will rebuild the place .
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
Boise....
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Well, I guess it's easy to be mean & petty on the intardnetz.
I'm sorry ya'll lost a groovin' spot that you obviously valued.
All things must pass, I reckon.
If ya happen to drop by, I'll grill up some burgers for ya!
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Fletcher
Trad climber
Shivasana
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I'm going to miss that place. All things have their time... it will be great if the owners can rebuild.
Eric
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crusher
climber
Santa Monica, CA
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Oh that's too bad. Wonder if the Horse Flats area burned too? I sorta thought it might be out of the fire area, being further NE, but it's not that far past Newcomb's.
Now that I think about it Newcomb's isn't that far past Chilao and they evacuated Chilao yesterday.
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Big Piton
Trad climber
Ventura
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I am very sorry to hear that area got hit that hard. I've been going there since 1980 and not just the normal customer. We partied so hard there we had to spend the night upstairs. Then ten years later we would stop there mid week after a day of teaching kids climbing. And my last visit I did chimney/woodstove work for them. Tons of good times.
I wonder how the other buildings survive? There are at least 5 youth camps in the area as well as the Visitor’s Center. Then there is the Forest Service Station and living quarters as well as the Cal Trans base.
I more passing friend
MMM
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Brian
climber
Cali
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Dang. Horse Flats is a great family-friendly camping/climbing area. I'll be bummed if it got trashed...
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Iron Mtn.
Trad climber
Corona, Ca.
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What a bummer, i'm really shocked how far the fire has traveled.
I celebrated a nOOb 3 day backpack Margarita there 20 years ago after a brutal 17 mile hike from West Fork Campground to Chilao and then hitched a ride with a couple of ex-cons back to civilization.
I wonder if Vetter Mountain Lookout is history too?
Any word on Big Santa Anita or Chantry?
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Wow,
Not what I wanted to hear. Newcombs has been a part of my life for years and the people there have always been great. That smell of wood burning in the fireplace and sitting down to a hot coffee after a day of skiing or climbing was always something I looked forward to.
RJ,
Newcombs Ranch was built at the turn of the century and was one of the very few structures in the high country. It was not built by people who snubbed their nose at the forest it was a place where foresters hung out and latter skiers and climbers. It's true that Southern Californians build in wildland interface areas and continue to do so but to make the ignorant comments you made is just plain ridiculous.
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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LOG, GRUB(Clear) and GRAZE.
Until you get out of the way of sensible professional land management, it'll be the same every year.
Burn, baby, BURN.
Retards.
Uh, this is a chaparral fire. Logging wouldn't have done much good. And it was the "sensible" land management of the day that allowed this to happen.
So, be careful who you call retard. When you point a finger, there's three fingers pointing back at YOU.
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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You ever been to the San Gabriels? Do you know anything about the natural and human history of this range?
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville
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dude,
on second thought, i won't waste my time...
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aguacaliente
climber
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I happen to know how the fire is said to have started, presciptive burn.
Rocky,
As long as you are going to jump up up and down and thumb your nose at people, keep your facts straight.
The fire in Foresta was started by an out of control prescriptive burn.
The very large fire that burned Newcombs Ranch in the Angeles National Forest near LA was not. Its cause is under investigation.
The one thing I know about wildfires in the West is that it isn't a good idea to decide you know everything about how to handle them, because nature will come around and burn you if you get overconfident.
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Rocox,
Are you really that ignorant? Have you been to So Cal? Like others have said we have no logging or grazing. The San Gabriel Mountains are some of the steepest most rugged and inaccessible terrain in the US. What we fire professionals have finally learned after many years is that we were too aggressive with firefighting as a result we now have 100+ years of growth that we are dealing with at the moment. Tell ya what, do a little research, come back and write with some knowledge of the area. Maybe even google images of Angeles Crest or San Gabriel Mountains.
Oh, the cause is undetermined but most likely intentionally set, or to make it clear for you, arson.
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crusher
climber
Santa Monica, CA
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Most of this fire has been in the Angeles Forest. At the north end of the fire perimeter is Acton (along Hwy 14), where there are homes and ranches across the foothills. This is the North (back) side of the Angeles Crest and is a rural area. The south perimeter (bottom of the mtns.) is adjacent to the L.A. Basin - Altadena, La Canada, La Crescenta, Big and Small Tujunga Canyons, etc.
So spewing comments about people building and living in the fire area is only partly correct - yes, people live in the foothills and of course in the basin (flats) which go right up to the edge of the mountains - but this fire has mostly blown through a national forest. Take a look at the fire map on inciweb.
The cause is still under investigation. I don't think they even DO prescribed burns in the Angeles. The Foresta fire is what started as a prescribed burn.
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SIMONBENTLEY
Ice climber
JOSHUA TREE
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Maybe when they rebuild Newcomb's they will stop buying potatoes from Idaho .
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Loomis
climber
*_*
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Wow, that sucks, used to go there all the time when doing new stuff at Horse Flats and environs. : (
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
Boise....
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Remember, Joxy don't speak for US.
Just to pump himself up, I guess.
Makes me sad, & embarrassed. Sorry about that.
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nita
climber
chica from chico, I don't claim to be a daisy
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Thanks.. Skully.
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
Boise....
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Perhaps you do that too much.
Perhaps.
Don't get roostery with me. I don't play nice.
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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FA, Ant Line, Horse Flats
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Years ago maybe 82 or 83 I had just finished top roping Ant Line and was sitting at the base, I noticed a rattler sunning itself on a rock. I started looking around and just in the area around Ant Line I counted 7 rattlers either on or under the rocks near the base. Yikes, snakes give me the creeps and I have always been creeped out bouldering at HF since.
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Brian Hench
Trad climber
Laguna Beach, CA
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I don't think there are any quick, cheap and easy solutions to fires here in California. Those mountains are too steep and too dry in general to make good grazing. The treed sections are too steep and not productive enough to make it worthwhile to log them in most cases.
There isn't really any way to stop arsonists from torching it every year. There are too many damn people in the teeming millions who live here. Out of that number there's bound to always be a crazy nut.
You can tell people not to build in fire prone areas, but then they'll call you a commie or a socialist for taking away their right to do what they want on their own property.
About all you can do is require people to clear brush from around their homes. Down in Laguna Beach, the city hires this Mexican fellow with a heard of goats. He has a system of moving fencing and those goats do a great job of munching away at the brush. They eat everything.
There are new building materials such that it is possible to have a fireproof house, but there are no codes mandating it. The cost is higher, and as long as you can get insurance, people will build the cheapest way.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
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I'm here to tell you they could have put that sucker out last Thursday if they had been willing to commit the resources they are now so futilely expending on it. A couple of drops from the DC-10's and 3 or 4 Skycranes and we wouldn't be having this discussion.
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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THIS IS GREAT GREAT NEWS!!!!
BURN BURN BURN BURN BURN
BURN BURN BURN BURN BURN
BURN BURN BURN BURN BURN
BURN BURN BURN BURN BURN
BURN BURN BURN BURN BURN
BURN BURN BURN BURN BURN
BURN IT ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Juan
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corniss chopper
Mountain climber
san jose, ca
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Those 'proscribed burns' do seem to get out hand a lot.
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Look right now I am:
Writing a letter to a cop (community officer) trying to straighten out an irrigation problem ongoing
Mowing the lawn
Supposed to be doing taxes
Trying to find a engine/tranny for my sports car that blew up this week
Posting on the Topo
Answering the phone for my wife's problems
Finding a cheaper place for her drugs
You forgot one:
Making myself look like an idiot by shooting my mouth off about something I'm totally clueless about.
You're deep in a hole. My advice would be to stop digging.
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Reilly,
Where the fire started last Thursday the DC-10's were not an option in that type of terrain, they need more open terrain or ridgelines. Also the Azusa fire was about in full swing and resources were committed there. I work for LAFD and I dont know all the details on how resources are ordered up but it's just not as easy as hey we need the sky crane or give me a DC-10. As a captain I can order up as many helicopters as I want from the LAFD if they are available. Today I was looking at the availability of our air fleet and 3 of our 7 water dropping helicopters are down for maintenance. The same goes for any agency such as LA County Fire or Cal Fire. I can guarantee that all available air resources were deployed to the Station Fire from the get go. Also be aware that most agencies do not fly at night LAFD is one of the few agencies that continue to fly at night. Fixed wing are grounded until first light.
Fire is a very dynamic and fluid entity and it moves with a degree of unpredictability. While we do our best to predict fire behavior and the effects weather and terrain will have on it it sometimes throws us a curve ball. My best guess is that this fire will not be completely out until the first significant rain event, then we will be faced with a potentially more devastating problem of debris flows.
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corniss chopper
Mountain climber
san jose, ca
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Were the guidelines for proscribed burns violated?
The real question is how many upcoming burns are planned in the next weeks and how many of those will get out of control?
Is there a website listing them? Can people go and observe that all precautions are followed? Like the ride along with cops.
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Redwreck
Social climber
Echo Parque, Los Angeles, CA
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Since this wasn't a prescribed burn I'm pretty sure that the guidelines for prescribed burns were, indeed, violated.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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An arsonist is eligible for the death penalty for starting a fire that results in someone's death. It's called the felony murder rule. Charles Manson and others like him are completely irrelevant to the issue.
For the record, there's no evidence to even remotely suggest that capital punishment is effective as a general deterrent. It's just a drum that simpletons and conservatives beat on during election years to convince other simpletons that they're "tough on crime."
Also, burning at the stake would be prohibited by the U.S. Constitution, or don't you believe in that either?
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Corniss Chopper,
What fire was started as a result of a prescribed burn?
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Batrock, the Foresta fire in Yosemite started as a prescribed burn of Big meadow and quickly got out of control. It is called the Big meadow fire.
http://inciweb.org/incident/1869/
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Redwreck
Social climber
Echo Parque, Los Angeles, CA
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Batrock: thank you for the work you and your compatriots do. Big respect and gratitude, always.
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robman
climber
Wasangeles
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First Williamson, Now this *#@!
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Roxjox,
There isnt a fireline of any size short of a few miles wide that could stop a wind driven Santa Anna wind driven fire. Cutting line like you mention with cables would be impossible in the San Gabriels. There are no easy solutions short of making everyone move into the cities away from wilderness and I certainly would not want that.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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"But it IS about liberals getting control of your thought processes, and screwing up everything until you eventually have MASSIVE problems rather than smaller manageable ones."
Rox, the rape and kidnap that you speak of for which that dude was released after serving 10 years of a 50 year sentence happened in Nevada, which is generally a conservative state.
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
Sprocketville
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well of course people in montana and wyoming and colorado and idaho think we are a bunch of idiots, and we are, i like it much better in oregon during the summer, but i remember not long ago there were some hilacious fires in idaho, yellowstone, colorado, ...
i think the only reason that idaho has not torched is becuase it practically burned to the ground a few years ago, all the way up to the sawtooths, finally got close enuff to sun valley and redford, that it mirqaculosly got put out, wtf?
even the indian hot shot team got pushed back. it was a pbs special.
i mean, the season has just started, if this is a precursor of things to come, then look for more hilaciouness in a national forest near you this fall. things have been drying out with this climate change, and you can snap mazanita branches that are two inches in diameter like a dry twig in a stiff desert wind, if you have been hiking in the high chaparella (who was the star of that series?)lately, you know what i am hittin at.
mt wilson has been here since 1907, it always gets a scare every 50 years, but never gets torched completely.
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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I give jox, you have all the answers. You must be a very lonely person.
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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During the night the fire extended eastward and has encircled Mt.
Vetter and the Chrarlton-Chilao area.
The maps show it burning in Devil's Canyon, on Mt. Mooney, and
threatening Newcomb's Ranch. It has also expanded into the upper West
Fork, burning on the north side virtually all the way down to Cogswell
Reservoir. One lobe appears to be making a run for Mt. Wilson from
the north via the next canyon to the west of Strayne's Canyon.
Another lobe is now burning the south side of Mt. Wilson near the
summit.
Further south, most of Millard Canyon has been engulfed right up to
and including Inspiration Point, however the fire has not worked
downslope to Castle Canyon and Echo Mountain, nor is it on the slopes
of Muir Peak yet.
Northward, most if not all of the Roundtop ridge is toast, including
Granite Mtn and Roundtop, as is Pacifico. The Mt. Hillyer-Sulphur
Springs area has not burned.
Major threats today include upper Devil's Canyon and thence into the
Waterman-Twin Peaks area, Vetter Mtn and the Chilao country, Mt.
Wilson, Muir Peak, and the upper part of Eaton Canyon down to Camp
Idlehour. A northern branch of the fire could crest over Bare
Mountain and thence run further eastward onto Winston Ridge.
If the fire continues unabated for a few more days, it could well burn
all the high country east to Cajon Pass. We'll just have to keep our
fingers crossed and hope that the fire can be tamped down when it
reaches the high country above the chaparral belt.
Pray for rain from Hurricane Jimena down in Baja California.
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Hey rokjox, would you mind answering a couple of questions? Have you ever been in the San Gabriels? Do you know the natural and human history of the range?
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Fletcher
Trad climber
Shivasana
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Here's the latest update on the Rokjox Fire from Inciweb:
Incident Type: Flame war
Cause: It's all Cali's fault, isn't it always?
Date of Origin: Sep 1, 2009, 01:25pm PT
Location: Supertopo, "Newcombs Ranch lost to fire"
Current Situation
Total Personnel: 98% of usual ST posters, except maybe for Lynnie who is out "on the road"; too many lurkers to mention. Special mention to Gary and Batrock for extra duty.
Size: 64 posts, so far
Percent Contained: 100% but flair ups expected once RJ wakes up and after he picks up his engine, pacifies wife and grandkids, completes other various chores and errands.
Estimated Containment Date: Only the good Lord knows (maybe)
Planned Actions
Crews will prepare, and protect structures when and where necessary. Additional crews will construct handlines, improve existing lines, burnout as needed, build dozer lines and protect critical communication sites. Firefighters will continue firing and burn operations to help contain the fire.
Growth Potential
Extreme
Terrain Difficulty
Extreme
Hey Rox.... we still love ya!
Eric
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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crusher, that report came from Bob Cates of the Sierra Club by way of an email list. Thanks for posting the CHARA link, very interesting. To see fire between the 100 inch and 60 inch telescopes must have been very disconcerting. As Batten wrote, God save the Hooker.
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
Boise....
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I edited out my last comments for niceness.
Sorry, folks.
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Brian Hench
Trad climber
Laguna Beach, CA
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Where mental illness is concerned, there is no deterrent harsh enough to prevent all criminal action. Look at Bruno. They burned him at the stake just for saying the earth goes around the sun. He knew the risks.
I think mister Rokjox fails to understand the difference in volatility of our forests between Idaho and Southern California. Rainfall is 10 times lower here and all comes in the winter. Temperatures are 20 degrees higher. Slopes are steeper.
Trying to compare the two states is like comparing the flammability of kerosene and gasoline.
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Ray-J
Social climber
east L.A. vato...
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Plus the scale of things...
San Diego county alone is bigger than Rhode Island.
Miles and miles of chapparel type back country.
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Big Piton
Trad climber
Ventura
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Thanks for the link.
To anybody that has not been in the San Gabriel Mountains. Check out the LA Times today. There are aleast 3 articals about the area. Look up Chilao, a real good tale of good old cowboy stuff. The mtns are so steep that I bet some of the best climbing hasn't been found. There is good climbing 1.5 miles down a cyn out of Chilao Campground. 90 ft routes.
If you haven't been able to tell with my posts I love the area. I even got married at Charlton Flats.
MMM
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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I think in the long run a lot of good will come out of this fire, I only hope that access is not denied for too long, I anticipate closure at least through winter. As was mentioned before there is a lot of hidden rock up there that will be easier to get to now at least for a while. I look at this as a way to start over in many ways.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville
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I have some news regarding Newcomb's.
After not being able to confirm the destruction of Newcombs anywhere on or off the web, I am not as confident my original source(s) are correct in all the information given in the following email:
Received 9/01/09
Bad news boys:
I don't know how many of you have heard, but I got a text message from Carlos last night at 11:30 saying that Newcombs had caught fire. I called this morning and he said that Victor was the last man standing and that he called to say he was evacuated as the flames over-took the building. He said they tried to save Chilao but lost that battle in addition to Fish Camp, Pacifico, the Cal Trans yard, and pretty much everything else on the mountain.
The end of an era . . .
Paul
Because of the lack of information coming out of the area I am still hopeful that the orginal email was somehow wrong and Newcomb's Ranch is still standing.
My gut tells me otherwise but I'll hope for the best.
-wayne
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
Boise....
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Rokjox person....Never address me again.
You do not exist.
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Fletcher
Trad climber
Shivasana
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On a somewhat related note, I used to call up the Mt. Waterman ski report just to hear what Lynn Newcomb, Jr. had to say. He provided the best ski reports ever, especially considering the place was open about five days a year.
One of my favorites (and most touching), was his recollection of trudging up through beautiful waist deep snow one morning only to subsequently hear the news of Pearl Harbor from his father.
I miss that guy.
Eric
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Retired Gunkster
climber
SoCal
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FWIW, Newcomb's coordinates are 34.33/-118.002, which is outside (barely) of the fire area shown on the latest LA Times fire map.
Maybe it didn't burn after all; sure hope not.
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Redwreck
Social climber
Echo Parque, Los Angeles, CA
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Wow, I sure hope that's true.
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Delhi Dog
Trad climber
Good Question...
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"Rockjock"
Knows all
Sees all
Tells all
Vote Rockjoke err,
Rockstrap,
err Rockjoc...sh*t!
Rocjox (pheww!)
for President!
Your "Burn baby Burn" comment- sealed it for most of us I suspect...not that you care.
Retard indeed...
Cheers,
DD
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Howie S
Sport climber
Mammoth Lakes, Ca
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RokJox:
I read that article and it says nothing especially damning as you put it.
Machines really won't do sh#t for the front country of the Angeles. You have no idea of the topography. Most of it is totally inaccessible, super steep, super deep canyons. You just can't realistically thin the type of foliage there with tool. Fire is really the only way, but again, it's too hot, dry, and close to massive population centers. It's not like sparsely populated place like Idaho.
By the way, You didn't mention how every time they want to do fuels reductions, extremist groups like the Center for Biodiversity step in and file lawsuits so they can't burn lands or displace or destroy native plant species by any means, fire or mechanical/hand tools. This effectively ties the Fed's hands from doing anything.
Please present the whole picture when you quote an article. Don't just use little snippets to support your narrow minded stance.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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This is what you started with, "Year after Year, after YEAR. The same story. Cali's will NEVER learn land management."
Now you blame,
"Fed didn't do their job, NPS didn't do their job."
This is why people get pissed at you. You have a hard on for Californians, so you blame us for everything. But we aren't the FEDs. You need to reread Batrocks posts. You seem to have no idea the amount of area we have that is having serious problems with drought. Comparing Idaho to California is stupid. We have different weather, we have different terrain, we have different problems. Using mechanical means to clear areas is very VERY expensive. Goats might help, but we have chaparral that is huge and burns hot. Chaparral that goats would do nothing for. Your fire season is much shorter then ours, and as Jaybro pointed out, you shouldn't get all prideful, it wasn't that many years ago that you had a drought and half your state burned. I happen to know some of the CALIFORNIA firefighters who went to Idaho to fight IDAHO fires. It is national forest, so firefighters come from all over. Plus California pays more into the government per capita then Idaho does, so we support Idaho. ( look up per capita before your drunk ass gives some snide answer saying we should pay more because we are bigger ) That means that we are paying for your firefighters.
End rant.
And yes, we have to fight to get controlled burns done because of pollution concerns. It sucks. That is part of the problem with Idahoans moving to California and increasing our population. Plus all the other hicks form around the country that move here. oops, guess I wasn't done with me rant.
Nite nite
Edit: Hope the ranch didn't burn.
2Edit: Yes, I know.. Californians are stupid. You have told us enough times. We get it.
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10b4me
Ice climber
the reticient boulder at the Happies
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I hope Newcombs survives. A buddy, Mark, works as a bartender there.
seems as though the SE part of the fire is flaring up, i.e. upper
Santa Anita canyon
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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2007. Idaho fire burns 600,000 acres. Threatens 7500 residences. 1000 commercial properties and 500 businesses.
http://www.magicvalley.com/articles/2007/07/24/news/top_story/116893.txt
2 million acres burned in Idaho in 2007.
The cascade complex fire of 2007 in Idaho cost 53 million dollars to fight and burned 236,282 acres and it wasn't even the biggest fire of the season. California paid a bigger share of that cost then Idaho did, based on how federal funds are distributed.
........
Hmmm.. maybe yall have the same problems we have. too many years of fire suppression which led to an overgrown forest.
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Fletcher
Trad climber
Shivasana
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Part of the chaparral ecology is fire. It needs to burn from time to time. 40 plus years is way too much time and that's how the ginormous conflagrations happen with so much fuel. These conflagrations then tend to take out other plant communities like southern oak woodlands.
If you're local to the area, check out Eaton Canyon's self-guided fire ecology trail. After things mellow out of course, EC is currently closed during the day as a staging area for fire crews.
But with ends there always come beginnings. It will be interesting to see what comes back and springs up after all is said and one.
Eric
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Iron Mtn.
Trad climber
Corona, Ca.
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"People who haven't been up there have no clue to what it's like," said Helen Oakley of Pasadena. Oakley, 78, has been tramping through the range with the group San Gabriel Mountains Trailbuilders and marvels at how the terrain sneaks up on everyone. "I wish everyone could get up there, it's an eye-opener."
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rincon
Trad climber
SoCal
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Newcombs Ranch is a dive. No loss if it's gone, just hate to see the trees around there go too. The place caters to L.A.'s weekend warrior, wannabe racer, death on wheels, idiot nija riding fools who use the crest highway as their own little race track.
Every time I go up there on a weekend I see a motorcycle crash that causes a roadblock for the clean-up. You'd think they'd get wise from all the crosses and flower memorials marking the spots where their friends died.
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Hey Rokjox, from your article:
"Angeles National Forest Supervisor Jody Noiron defended the agency's efforts to reduce the fire risk. "The Angeles Forest has been pretty aggressive about implementing fuels-reduction projects with the funds we are given," she said.
She said that it is extraordinarily difficult to get the right weather conditions to pull off a prescribed burn. "This year with the weather and the drought and all of that, the last couple of years actually, we've had very few days that we can do prescribed burning," she said."
I think she's a little more qualified to speak to the existing conditions in the San Gabriels than some Internet warrior who's never laid eye on them. Wouldn't you agree?
The only damning comment came from Mike Antonovich. If you knew anything about him, you'd be embarrassed.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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"Much of the original two-story structure was destroyed in a fire in 1976. The building was rebuilt and opened as a restaurant run for many years by Lynn Newcomb Jr. Today, Newcomb's Ranch is owned by Dr. Frederick H. Rundall, a lover of nature with a passion for the mountains."
Time to rebuild . . .
JL
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Lynn was the man bitd, I sure do miss his laugh and snow reports that made you feel he was talking directly to you and you alone.
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Have fun or quit
climber
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RokJox you are such an A-hole. Two firefighters died and you go on to say "burn baby burn". You are a waste of space on this planet. You talk about land management in Idaho being better but this is a National Forest that is burning you moron. It is managed by the same government that manages Idaho's National Forests. Get an education and a clue.
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Howie S
climber
Mammoth Lakes, Ca
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According to Angeles Crest Christian Camp, which is a mile or so up the road from Newcomb's Ranch, Newcomb's Ranch has not burned and is currently still standing. There are many La County firefighters staged in the area of the camp.
Check for yourself at http://www.angelescrest.com/
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville
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Great news!
Even if it is still there, it is still in seious danger.
I hope this weather system continues to cool w/higher humidity levels.
Those firemen at the Christian camp can use all the help they can get.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville
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ever consider therapy?
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Royal Robbins
Trad climber
Modesto, California
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"Newcomb's Ranch burned" got my attention. Lynn Newcomb, who built the place, also owned the Mt. Waterman Ski Resort up the road a piece, where Bill Derr and I worked way back in the beginning of the 1950's. We knew the eating spot ("Ranch") and the Angeles Crest Highway well. Lynn once picked Bill and me up as hitchhikers on the Highway and told us to come back in the winter to work part time at Mt. Waterman. We did. He was a gracious individual. I am very sorry to hear about the fire raging through there. Long live Newcomb's Ranch and the Angeles National Forest.
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Royal,
My dad used to climb at Pacifico and Williamson Rock or Eagles Roost as it was known then in the early 1960's. When I became old enough to climb he brought my brother and I up to Pacifico and Williamson in the late 1970's early 80's. I am sure I climbed some of your old routes up at Pacifico. We would always stop at Newcombs and get hot chocolate on the way home. Good memories.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville
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Hoping for the best as information trickles out of that area.
They are fighting hard up there for sure.
Hopefully the Santa Anas won't arrive before they get containment of this huge wildfire.
A long time ago I found a very old piton on an aid route at Pacifico. I remember joking to my partner that Royal Robbins probably hammered this thing in himself.
Little did I know...
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Howie S
climber
Mammoth Lakes, Ca
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Newcomb's and Mt. Waterman are classics filled with so many memories. Hopefully they'll both make it.
Many a climbing day at Williamson/Horse flats or long day spent running on the PCT/Silver Moccasin ended with a great meal at the Ranch...
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Redwreck
Social climber
Echo Parque, Los Angeles, CA
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From the Ranch's Facebook page: "Just spoke with Victor at Newcomb's Ranch and he said that Newcomb's was untouched the fire came up the road and all of the tall trees are Fine. They will be open for business as soon as the road is open down below. So come up as soon as the road is open...So HAPPY!!!"
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ME Climb
Social climber
Behind the orange Curtain
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Rokjox,
I do not post here very often as I am a climbing nOOb and don't want to embarrass myself too badly.
Many of the hills and mountains in Southern CA are covered in chapparal that need fire as part of their natural cycle. Clear cutting the hills and mountains is not an option as the denuded hillsides will then have the potential for mud and debris flows.
The Station fire was not a prescribed burn, but was "most likely caused by human cause." I do not know the conditions that are required for a prescribed burn as I am not a fireman(I was stupid enough to get into the wrong line), but I do know it has to do with wind speed and relative humidity. Prescribed burns during our winter our not usually an option. Typically if there is not rain we are suffering from low humidity and strong Santa Ana winds.
Last November, my neighborhood was ravaged by the Freeway complex fire. This fire was driven by the high winds. I live approx. 4 miles from where the fire originated. Within two hours we were nearly completely over run by fire. We were less than 10' away from 30'-40' flames dring out. The hills are growing back, but for the next 3-5 years we must be wary of mudslides.
Yes, I am one of those idiots who live in an "urban interface zone", but I enjoy seeing deer, racoons, coyotes, and such on a regular basis.
I am not trying to call you out, but just understand the topography of So Cal is not the same as Idaho.
Eric
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Now, on to the bad news:
Wynne Benti reports that the historic Vetter Mountain Lookout has
burned. She references the Angeles National Forest Fire Lookout
Association web site: http://www.anffla.org/
Interestingly, the ENPLAN Wildfire map still shows no fire having gone
to the top of Vetter, but since the news of the lookout's burning is
posted on the ANFFLA web site, it is probably true.
As a whole, the lines around the southwest, west, and north seem to be
holding, but our dear San Gabriels still faces severe threats in the
northeast and even more so in the southeast.
In the northeast, fires are continuing to work around the northern
side of Bare Mountain. Hopefully, fire crews will be able to prevent
the fire from crossing Bare Mountain Canyon to the east, which would
then threaten the Winston Ridge-Pleasant View Ridge backcountry.
A much worse scenario is taking place on the southeast boundary of the
fire, where the entire length of the north-south running portion of
Devil's Canyon has been engulfed. Several new lobes now appear moving
up the eastern tributaries toward the heart of the San Gabriel
Wilderness Area, much of which is a vast ocean of thick brush. On the
ENPLAN map, the fire has topped the far western end of the long ridge
that extends west from Twin Peaks into Devil's Canyon. The
northernmost portion of the Devil's Canyon conflagration has reached
the 'elbow' where the canyon makes a 90 degree turn to the east before
heading up to the Waterman-Twin Peaks saddle, about two miles distant.
The Big Santa Anita Canyon drainage, containing historic Sturtevant's
Camp and the picturesque cabins from the 1900-1920s era, is coming
under greater threat as the fire has now advanced close to Newcomb
Pass and the ridge that runs westward from there up to the summit of
Mount Wilson.
As with yesterday, my view of the fire from Chatsworth is completely
obscured by smoke-haze, so no new photos. However, plenty of other
folks from all around the fire have been posting photos on Flickr.
Just go the the Flickr site and type in Station Fire in the search
window and you'll find plenty of pix.
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Fletcher
Trad climber
Shivasana
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That's a great note about Mike Hoover's Solo and Pacifico. Good editing, I had no idea. I played around trying to learn some aid up there a while back. Beautiful spot just to hang out.
Sounds like Newcombs made it! Hooray!
Eric
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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A mammoth forest fire that killed two firefighters and has burned more than 147,000 acres was an act of arson, authorities said Thursday as they launched a homicide investigation into the deaths.
Officials said they determined that the largest brush fire in the history of Los Angeles County was the result of arson after investigators examined forensic evidence from scorched landscape off Angeles Crest Highway, north of La Cañada Flintridge. The spot is believed to be the source of origin.
A source close to the investigation said investigators found incendiary material near the point of origin. The source, who asked not to be identified because he was not authorized to discuss the matter, would not be more specific or identify the material.
Los Angeles County Sheriff Lee Baca said investigators don't want to release details out of fear it could hurt their ability to find and prosecute an arsonist.
Baca stressed that the homicide probe is still wide open, saying investigators believe the fire was set deliberately by someone intent on triggering a devastating blaze but that there is a possibility it could have been sparked accidentally by a negligent person. Either way, the sheriff said the department could pursue homicide charges.
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-fire4-2009sep04,0,3921660.story
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Sewellymon, here's that roof bolder,
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drljefe
climber
Old Pueblo, AZ
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I hope the relentless hot air blowing out of the northeast will shut up, I mean, let up.
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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I put up a few hand drilled routes on some of the spires down slope and to the west of the main area at Pacifico back in the early 80's. One was on a pyramid shaped formation that had one or two bolts and some tied off chicken heads. I also remember a route down slope in a drainage that finished by climbing a hand crack out a giant boulder. And of coarse there are all the other routes on the main formation, my favorite is a shallow dihedral with a small overhang at the top that is probably 60-70 feet long on the east side of the main formation. Fun place but getting there is hit or miss as to whether the gate will be open off the Forest Hwy or the gate on the Horse Flat side.
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Rpkjox, do yourself a favor and stop posting about issues about which you are totally ignorant.
Fire is part of the ecology of the San Gabriels. Fires don't need to be stopped here, they need to burn.
I've asked twice before if you'd ever been to the San Gabriels or had any knowledge of their natural and human history. You won't answer. We all know why you won't answer.
You are spouting utter nonsense.
Take it easy.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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Just ignore him. Every few months or so he melts down and posts bizarre wolf and anti-California rants on thread after thread. It must be cathartic. Just part of the melodrama.
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Fletcher
Trad climber
Shivasana
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I've not been up to Pacifico in six or seven years, but I heard that even prior to the fire the road up there from the Horse Flat side may have been washed out in spots or cover by a slide. Take a hard left on that road in good conditions and you'll go for a ride!
Eric
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Fletcher
Trad climber
Shivasana
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That's good to hear about the road. Suppose I won't be going up there anytime soon though!
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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But what is your point?
That you're pontificating from a stand point of ignorance.
But then again, that's why the Internets was invented.
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Funny, there seems to be a bunch of guys trying to put it out??? What Retards!
Who's the retard? I'm starting to think you rode the short bus to school. You could not be anymore wrong. They are trying to protect structures: houses, the observatory. They are not trying to put out the fire.
You think there might be anything else you're misinformed about?
And stop calling me Shirley.
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Not much time has been spent trying to put it out, the bulk of the manpower and resources are simply spent preventing loss to property and life. On the morning news one of the PIO's at the command post gave the statement saying that "most of the fire is in the back country now, it can burn all it wants back there". You see, the trend has changed from trying to put it out to let it burn itself out for the most part because what does not get burned now will will just grow and and become heavier fuel for next years fire.
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Gary, we must have been typing at the same time. You said it shorter and clearer than I did. I should have waited.
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Wilson Cam is back up and running with some great shots every two minutes.
http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~obs/towercam.htm
Looking ugly in the back country over toward chilao and Waterman.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville
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Thanks Batrock!
I stopped looking when it went down the other day.
I rode my MC around the perimeter yesterday (200+ miles). Winds were light SSW making for the worst air I've seen in SG Valley since the 70's.
From Hwy 15 to Valermo through Wrightwood is open. Hwy 2 is closed @ Wrightwood.
Barrel Springs Rd closed @ Mount Emma Road just below Littlerock Dam.
Angeles Forest Hwy closed @ Mount Emma Rd.
Slow burning (constant) fire deep in the SG Wilderness.
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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looking pretty impressive now
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Fletcher
Trad climber
Shivasana
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Wow, the 9:21 pm image is quite dramatic:
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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I have been a fireman for over 20 years now and have been to loads of fires, I got the sh!t kicked out of me at the Sayer Fire last Fall in Sylmar. I am just in awe at the sheer scope of this fire. I wish I could be out on the lines at fires like this instead of running on garage fires in Van Nuys.
Santa Anna season is still ahead, wonder what the future will bring?
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Fletcher
Trad climber
Shivasana
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Thanks for all your contributions and insights, Batrock. Much appreciated from someone who really has first hand experience with these events.
Eric
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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hey there say, fletcher... not sure if you are here this evening or not---or if this was earlier--but good evening to you, if so and, say----thanks for the picture post....
wow, i have not ever seen anything like THAT before...
wheww... not meaning it's good as to having a fire to get one, of course, but:
what a picture (sure gives a view)....
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Fletcher
Trad climber
Shivasana
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Yes, neebee, I am here tonight. :-)
I can see Mt. Wilson from my house. It's only several miles away. But we were never in danger. And in that picture, the fire is heading in the opposite direction. The bit of fire you can see in the lower right corner is probably the part that's near the towns of Sierra Madre and Arcadia.
For all the details, you can check in here:
http://www.inciweb.org/incident/1856/
It is pretty amazing... at least from a distance.
Eric
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Managing fire in wildlands is a real balancing act with perilous "drops" on either side of the issue.
Its a very tough act. And the stakes are high.
Don't know this Newcomb's place, but it seems to have a following.
I guess the thing to remember is that fire is part of the natural cycle. That things DO regrow eventually (sometimes surprisingly quickly), and that Jox and Dean Potter will sometimes make me look pretty good,...lol
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Ron,
A fire like this was inevitable and everyone knew it. Your right about fire being part of the natural cycle, aggressive fire protection is not part of that cycle and is what has caused many of the larger fires in the last 50 years or more due to vegitation growth gone wild. There really are very few structures in the Angeles back country, Newcombs Ranch and the ski areas at Mt. Waterman and Kratka Ridge being just a few. It would be a sad loss for those of us Angelenos who actually do enjoy this back country to see any of these long standing places lost to flame.
It's easy to sit back and say "well, what did you expect?", well we all expected a horrendous fire to rip through here at some point but it still doesnt soften the blow much.
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10b4me
Ice climber
the reticient boulder at the Happies
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I agree with Batrock, fire is part of the natural cycle, and I have no problem if a fire is a result of lightning. It just bums me out to think this might have been arson.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Only days ago and 12 miles north of here several homes burned down when a fire that had been allowed to smolder for a month (the Mill Flat fire) suddenly flared up with sudden winds.
All the residents are whining about "how could they let that happen?" but it very well might turn out that THIS fire (now 85% contained) could have burned off enough fuel so that the next time the cycle of fire comes around the other homes are better off.
The trouble with allowing natural fires to burn is that after decades of indiscriminate suppression the fuel accumulation results in unnatural devastation.
Like I said, its a high stakes balancing act.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Rox is an LA guy who needs to keep reassuring himself (in public, before witnessess) that relocating to Idaho was a good idea. He tends to rant, but I think he's okay at heart.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Rox, get a grip. Letting fires burn is part of current fire philosophy. It cost to much in resources and lives to aggressively fight every fire every minute, plus we do need fires to reduce fuel loads and to help some kinds of vegetation. I can't find the report I read early about the murphy complex fire, but it basically quoted the fire manager who was in charge of fighting that fire as saying they had to back off and try to lead the fire away from homes and business and into less volatile terrain. It was too expensive in terms of cost and lives risked to fight it directly. Plus, after this fire they realized that we needed to let some fires burn to reduce the fuel loads which were a result of too many years of immediate fire suppression. So while it may have been stated poorly, the Station fire is not being fought in same aggressive manner as fires were fought as little as a few years ago. Homes and businesses are being protected, but so are firemen's lives.
Here are some articles to back up what I mean.
http://idahoptv.org/OUTDOORS/shows/wildfire/importanceofaug20.cfm
http://www.consumerfireproducts.com/113
Now this is funny. Here is a report from Idaho that says grazing had virtually no affect in slowing the Murphy complex fire.
http://wolves.wordpress.com/2008/09/04/new-report-says-grazing-had-negligible-effects-on-size-of-murphy-complex-fire/
Here is an article that says that winter rains and snow put out some of the fires from 2007, affectively giving Idaho a SHORTER fire season.
http://www.allbusiness.com/safety-accidents-disasters/disasters-forest-fires/12051711-1.html
..............
So why don't you ease up on this whole Idaho is better the California baloney. eh? And by the way, you make fun of us for losing our tempers. You fully lost yours in your last post. So ease up with the "you are better then we are" bullsh@t.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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And Rox, before you totally lose your mind over some of my statements. I think grazing can be affective in reducing fuel loads.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Rox, I think your anger clouds your mind. I don't think he meant that we needed the complete destruction that these large fires create, such as in Yellowstone where the ash was over 2 feet deep because it burned so hot. I think what he meant is that we need fire to reduce fuel loads and to help certain types of vegetation, and that fire managers are now saying that they will let some areas burn because the area needs to burn to reduce fuel loads, and because some areas are just too dangerous to fight in. So the head guys let fire burn in certain areas and try to direct it towards areas where it is easier to fight. They do this in Idaho also.
This doesn't mean they aren't doing their best, it means that fighting wildfires today takes more into account then simply, "put it out as fast as you can". They take into account the dangers of fighting a fire in certain areas and the types of terrain the fire is in and if it can be headed towards easier terrain. They take into account whether an area needs to burn. They take into account whether their are structures or resources that need to be protected. Plus there are many other variables that currently I am forgetting. It is not a matter of whether they are doing their best or not by letting a fire burn in certain areas, it is a matter of what is best.
Perhaps it was said it poorly, but you certainly seem to take glee in bashing californians, which leads me to believe that you do have a bias and like to think the worst of what a Californian writes, instead of trying to understand their points. I think this is a mistake on your part as you will miss important points, such as the ones batrock made.
Edit: And yes, I didn't finish reading your post because of how much anger was in it. I will go back and read it later. I simply found a point I thought you had misinterpreted, and pointed it out to you.
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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I think Rox needs to work on having that stick removed. It going to be more difficult though now that its lodged sideways.
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jstan
climber
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Earlier on I said something pretty much like what ROK said, though a little less colourfully.
We make an assumption when we think what regrows will be like what just burned. That which burned grew in a climate rather unlike today's climate.
Even here on ST we seem to go for the buzz that we get from artificial drama.
The facts and the real danger, the beef if you will, gets ignored.
This is a real weakness.
Since that day in 1948 when I saw my first TV we all have been watching people taking pratfalls followed by canned laughter,
with never a consequence.
Wake up people.
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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I thought you said it was going to be short?
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