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mrtropy
Trad climber
Nor Cal
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Aug 27, 2009 - 02:56am PT
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At least he is not Catholic.
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Prod
Trad climber
A place w/o Avitars apparently
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Aug 27, 2009 - 09:12am PT
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Philo says...
"Compared to all the greater good he accomplished, yes she is a footnote.
Why don't you tell all the dead soldiers parents that to the New American Century their boys and girls were only footnotes. "
Because they are not, nor was Mary Jo. Her's was a life that was neglected and covered up by political and monitary power. Politicians and Rich people alike should be held to the same standard as the rest of us.
John Moosie says...
"I don't think that was Karl's point. I think his point is that Dick screwed up, broke the law, and didn't pay, yet the right forgave him and allowed him to move on."
That is not right either, and the 2 instances hardley compare. My point is, why on earth should a politician not have to be held to the same standard as you and me?
Prod.
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Aug 27, 2009 - 09:28am PT
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You mean like George Jr. Going AWOL then deserting and still being allowed to be commander in chief, then starting two illegal wars killing off thousands of American soldiers in the process all while enriching himself and his friends?
Yeah you are right Mary Jo was the crime of the century.
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Prod
Trad climber
A place w/o Avitars apparently
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Aug 27, 2009 - 09:43am PT
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Hi Philo,
That is exactely what I mean! Why aren't our politicians and rich brats held to the same standard as you and me?
I know you are passionate about politics, but you have to admit that calling Mary Jo a foot note is a tad harsh. No?
* Edit * Mary Jo was not the crime of the century, but a crime none the less. Creepier to me is the whole mystery of her families reaction or lack there of.
Prod.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Aug 31, 2009 - 01:25pm PT
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So many posts here about Ted focus on one bad, sad tragic event in his life. We all make misstakes and screw-up. Who can cast the first stone?
He did so much for all of us. I hope medical insurance for all US Citizens happpens and I would like to see the Bill that finally passes to do so to honor Senator Ted Kennedy.
I really admire the Kennedy family. They are incredibly brave beyond what you and I can fathom. They have done so much good and have sufferred so much tragic lose as a result. No other family has kicked against the dark powers that abide deep within our government and suffered as a result, as has the Kennedy family.
Robert kennedy Jr. says it best . . . I did not know that Ted did some climbing back in the day. He actually summited the Matterhorn in Switzerland.
I will really miss you Ted :_((
RFK Jr.: Ted Kennedy
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x362403
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8rN3sqGTnk
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Aug 31, 2009 - 01:41pm PT
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Nice Klimmer. He was a great American warts and all.
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Fluoride
Trad climber
Hollywood, CA
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Aug 31, 2009 - 01:52pm PT
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He was born into a life of wealth and status. He had no need to care about those beneath him. He could have kept that lifestyle and only thought of using his office to benefit his fellow rich & privileged (I'm talking to YOU Bush brothers, which W and his cronies own) but instead he fought for the little guy. The person without rights, without access, without a voice. His was a life of service for those who didn't have the money and access to the halls of the Senate. His legacy is one of the greatest in American legislative history.
His voice will be missed.
If you haven't, youtube his speech when Robert Bork was nominated to the Supreme Court. His championship for the common man and common sense helped get that guy out of harms way of wrecking this country with his extreme right wing warped views and decisions on the highest court in the land.
RIP Ted. I so wish he was here for the healthcare debate.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Aug 31, 2009 - 03:03pm PT
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OK everyone is bored of Mary Jo--TK's supporters liken her to a "footnote."
Still, it's interesting that TK thought it was a good source of humor and liked to tell jokes about it.
http://www.breitbart.tv/kennedy-friend-recalls-how-much-he-loved-to-joke-about-chappaquiddick/
Swell guy.
He's a good description of some of his shenanigans from a fair, unbiased source:
"Kennedy earned C grades at the private Milton Academy, but was admitted to Harvard as a "legacy" -- his father and older brothers had attended there, so the younger and dimmer Kennedy's admission was virtually assured. While attending, he was expelled twice, once for cheating on a test, and once for paying a classmate to cheat for him. While expelled, Kennedy enlisted in the Army, but mistakenly signed up for four years instead of two. His father, Joseph P. Kennedy, former U.S. Ambassador to England, pulled the necessary strings to have his enlistment shortened to two years, and to ensure that he served in Europe, not Korea, where a war was raging. Kennedy was assigned to Paris, never advanced beyond the rank of Private, and returned to Harvard upon being discharged.
While attending law school at the University of Virginia, he was cited for reckless driving four times, including once when he was clocked driving 90 miles per hour in a residential neighborhood with his headlights off after dark. Yet his Virginia driver's license was never revoked. He passed the bar exam in 1959, and two years later was appointed an Assistant to the District Attorney in Massachusetts' Suffolk County.
In 1962, at age 30 (constitutionally, the minimum age to hold a Senate seat) he ran for the Senate. His timing was perfect -- his brother John had given up the seat to become President, and Kennedy easily won the office. He was re-elected to seven more terms.
In 1964, he was seriously injured in a plane crash, and hospitalized for several months. His sister Kathleen and nephew "John John" were killed in separate plane crashes.
On 19 July 1969, Kennedy attended a party on Chappaquiddick Island in Massachusetts. At about 11:00 PM, he borrowed his chauffeur's keys to his Oldsmobile limousine, and offered to give a ride home to Mary Jo Kopechne, a campaign worker. Leaving the island via an unlit bridge with no guard rail, Kennedy steered the car off the bridge, flipped, and into Poucha Pond. He swam to shore and walked back to the party -- passing several houses and a fire station -- and two friends returned with him to the scene of the accident. According to their later testimony, they told him what he already knew, that he was required by law to immediately report the accident to the authorities. Instead Kennedy made his way to his hotel, called his lawyer, and went to sleep.
Kennedy called the police the next morning. By then the wreck had already been discovered. Before dying, Kopechne had scratched at the upholstered floor above her head in the upside-down car. The Kennedy family began pulling strings, ensuring that any inquiry would be contained. Her corpse was whisked out-of-state to her family, before an autopsy could be conducted. Further details are uncertain, but after the accident Kennedy says he repeatedly dove under the water trying to rescue Kopechne, and he didn't call police because he was in a state of shock. In versions not so kind, it is widely assumed Kennedy was drunk, that he was having an affair with Kopechne, and/or that he held off calling police in hopes that his family could fix the problem overnight.
After the accident, Kennedy's political enemies referred to him as the distinguished Senator from Chappaquiddick, or worse. He pled guilty to leaving the scene of an accident, and was given a suspended sentence of two months. Kopechne's family received a small payout from the Kennedy's insurance policy, and never sued. There was later an effort to have her body exhumed and autopsied, but her family successfully fought against this in court, and Kennedy's family paid their attorney's bills.
In 1973, at the height of Nixon's Watergate scandal, Kennedy thundered from the Senate floor, "Do we operate under a system of equal justice under law? Or is there one system for the average citizen and another for the high and mighty?"
http://www.nndb.com/people/623/000023554/
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mojede
Trad climber
Butte, America
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Aug 31, 2009 - 03:12pm PT
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"Otherwise, no one could be that complacent about someone who killed their daughter in an irresponsible manner."--HowDean
Uhh, he didn't KILL HER.
He prolly didn't TRY as hard as he could have to help save her, but she was the victim of a car accident involving water, pure and simple. Hell, I'm a shite swimmer and could barely save myself in an incident such as that. He wasn't a Navy SEAL, for godsakes, he was an inebriated politician who was a poor driver--fault him for THAT, not killing someone.
Gawd, you're cruel, Howie...
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Aug 31, 2009 - 03:27pm PT
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^ ^ ^ ^
Yes, he did kill her through his reckless driving. It would now be called vehicular homicide--apparently that charge didn't exist at the time.
He didn't intentionally kill her but he killed her nonetheless, kind of like that Dr. in California who just did in Michael Jackson.
You can kill people in different ways--not all require intent or premeditation.
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mojede
Trad climber
Butte, America
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Aug 31, 2009 - 03:35pm PT
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Applying today's laws to an event that happened over 40 years ago is cruel, as well--glad you folks are so forgiving and tolerant...
edit: And don't be so quick to arm-chair lawyer that one--your proof is hear say.
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mojede
Trad climber
Butte, America
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Aug 31, 2009 - 03:42pm PT
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Correct, sir fat, the Kennedys were hardly anglels, no doubt.
I'm saying that while we ALL would TRY to save her (in theory), many, if not most, here would not be capable of the heroic deed of pulling her out of the sunken auto.
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