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dirtbag
climber
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Sep 23, 2009 - 12:37pm PT
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 23, 2009 - 12:41pm PT
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DB,
You continually respond as your moniker suggests you are. Not surprising.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 24, 2009 - 09:33am PT
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Does anyone read here on ST?
Apparently one of the biggest stories to recently break wide open. Names are named for high treason and crimes within our government and even published on the cover of a respected "Right Wing" mag not doubt and all we hear on ST about this is ....
crickets.
Geee. You would think this would inspire a lot of new commentary.
Sibel Edmonds American Hero.
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Sep 24, 2009 - 10:31am PT
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Yes Klimmer she is absolutely an American hero.
One qquestion however regarding your thread title.
Do you think Bin Laden stopped working for the Bush Crime Syndicate on 9/12?
Because I think he was still on the payroll.
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Gene
climber
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Sep 24, 2009 - 11:15am PT
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Bib Laden was placed on the FBI 10 Most Wanted list in June 1999. And then still worked for the US until 9/11/2001? Curious employment rules.
Signed,
A Sheep.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 24, 2009 - 11:34am PT
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Philo,
I think so too. "They" need a boogey-man. We had him surrounded post 9-11 at one time and then let him slip through and escape.
You know he has been such a good soldier and CIA asset for us. Just let him be the boogey-man on into retirement. Apparently it probably comes with a good medical and dental plan also.
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tom woods
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Sep 24, 2009 - 01:48pm PT
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Damn interesting story in the American Conservative, but as a reporter there are issues, that don't mean that she's lying or this is false mind you, but issues.
This is a single source story, you either believe her or you don't. A single source could be wrong, a single source could be intentionally spinning you (which is what you would expect) A single source is only privy to the facts that the source is privy to. The translator- it's plausible that a translator would be privy to more information than most.
If she is the most gagged woman in America according to the hated ACLU, she sure doesn't sound like a gagged woman. I just read her words.
The murky dealings between govt, big business, and crazy mujehideen around the world has been documented before. The reporters at American Conservative, should be able to provide some sort of back up or corroboration.
I'm not saying this lady is lying, I'm saying that there is more work to do to back her up. Also, if this is true, where's the conspiracy?
This is really a question about the degree of control and assistance the US gave the "freedom fighters," that were so popular in the 80's.
What does "worked for the CIA mean." Did he receive some weapons, training, cover for the training camps? This is plausible, as these camps were mujhedeen camps, with small side camps for terrorists, from what I've read.
Did Bin Laden get the go ahead from the CIA or other US government figure to crash planes into American buildings? This seems like a stretch, but a critical stretch to the argument.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Sep 24, 2009 - 01:55pm PT
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"This is a single source story, you either believe her or you don't. A single source could be wrong, a single source could be intentionally spinning you (which is what you would expect) A single source is only privy to the facts that the source is privy to. The translator- it's plausible that a translator would be privy to more information than most. "
She claims to be a government employee reporting on documented investigated by teams of other agents. The evidence is all there if the government chooses to disclose it. Why refer to documents that are just made up when the gov could throw you right under the bus (and they want to) if she was lying
Peace
Karl
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tom woods
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Sep 24, 2009 - 02:16pm PT
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I ain't saying she's lying.
I'm saying that we should keep some space in our heads for the possibility that she is, that she is wrong, that she is crazy, that she is spinning us.
We are spun everyday, from so many angles it's impossible to know what's true. A single source story is usually the worst offender for spin.
American Conservative? Gosh they are telling on their cover that they are trying to spin you.
This lady seems to have good credentials, but who knows.
A more interesting argument would be, what is the significance of her story if true.
Did president Bush say, "yeah Osama, the plane thing seems like a good idea, I read it in Clancy, go for it bro."
Probably not.
Did our loosely defined plan to arm these guys against the commies backfire on us? Probably.
What is the command structure. Do we control these guys like Iran controls Hezbollah, or like Iran helps Hamas from time to time? Send them arms and see what they do? Or send them the arms, train them, and tell them to wait further orders?
Is is all reprehensible? yes, in my opinion.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Sep 24, 2009 - 09:44pm PT
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The bottom line is that I think the facts call for a honest investigation. Many years have passed, so how much national security is really compromised by getting the truth about one of the nation's biggest events.
How hard is that? It's needed because even the 9-11 commission says the government lied to them repeatedly at every turn. Let's find out why?
PEace
Karl
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 24, 2009 - 10:27pm PT
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With Sibel Edmonds there are undisbuted facts:
She worked for the FBI as a translator.
She was privy to many inside documents.
She whistleblew to uncover wrong-doing, and they fired her.
Then our government gaged her.
She was able to come out and say what she knew because she was a witness in a court case and put under oath.
I think she has had enough of being gaged and wants to let the world know what she knows. She is brave and a hero for doing so.
The US government could have pulled the State Secrets card again and gaged her this last time but didn't.
She would be an idiot to make any of it up. She would be throwing her life away, and she could be sued multiple times, and probably sent to prison.
Ask yourself why the US government gaged her. What does she know that they do not want known. The fact that the US gov has done so comfirms her story. It is very damaging.
There is your answer.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 24, 2009 - 11:22pm PT
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Dr. F,
Seek and you shall find.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 28, 2009 - 12:46am PT
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We could never imagine 9-11 happening. Right? Who could have imagined 4 commercial airliners could have been used as WMDs and slammed into the WTC towers or the Pentagon?
Well apparently we did over and over again:
USAF general grilled on pre 9/11 intelligence that terrorists would use planes as weapons
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x378585
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aaf6NuKRHE
General: But who could have thunk it? C'mon give the guy a break. We never could have known or thunk it. Honestly.
The people of the United States : Ah, General? We just did that exact war game scenerio just a few months ago and a few years prior to that. Might want to let Condi and GWB know that too.
General: Gosh dang it. I hate it when the people are smart and they use facts. You people are supposed to be watching Faux News. Stay off the internets! Dang it, I hate it when I'm made to look like a fool. Ok, note to self: next made-up war pull the plug on the internets. We really thought owning the networks was gonna be enough propaganda. Dang it all. Live and learn.
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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The truth is out there. Bring it on!
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Jingy
Social climber
Flatland, Ca
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don't try to tell this to blue.. he might just throw you a bombshell full of "commie" comments, and other assorted slurs....
Yeah, heard it, I can believe this a whole lot easier than I can believe the 7 days theory/belief most Americans base their lives on......
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