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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 31, 2009 - 12:32pm PT
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ALmost as much as I love kooky "sources."
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mojede
Trad climber
Butte, America
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Jul 31, 2009 - 12:38pm PT
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Are you still waiting for the "CIA Newspaper" delivery, dirt?
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Jul 31, 2009 - 12:39pm PT
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Wow! I'm aligned with dirtbag on this one.
John
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 31, 2009 - 12:56pm PT
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"Are you still waiting for the "CIA Newspaper" delivery, dirt? "
How about a legit. MSM source--any legt MSM source--tackling this, if there is a "this" to tackle? That would be quite a scoop, but 8 years later--nada!
Oh wait, I forget that the entire MSM is in cahoots too.
Personally, I love conspiracy hypotheses. I can have fun making them up all day long. It's like make believe for adults!
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 31, 2009 - 01:03pm PT
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It never stops amazing me how some here at ST have their head soooo buried in the sand. How does in feel to breath sand? It must be suffocating . . . free yourself.
Do you "Doubting Thomases" know who Sibel Edmonds is??? She is the most gagged woman in the US who worked for US intellegence in translating. This is beyond disbute. Now why would our government place Sibel under an extreme gag order? Well, it seems she has had enough of it and she is spilling the beans. She is a hero.
"State Secrets
Sibel has famously been dubbed the most gagged woman in America, having the State Secrets Privilege imposed on her twice. Her 3.5 hour testimony to the 9/11 Commission has been entirely suppressed, reduced to a single footnote which refers readers to her classified testimony. In the interview, she says that the information that was classified in her case specifically identifies that the US was using Bin Laden and the Taliban in Central Asia, including Xinjiang. In the interview, Sibel reiterates that when invoking the gag orders, the US government claims that it is protecting " 'sensitive diplomatic relations,' protecting Turkey, protecting Israel, protecting Pakistan, protecting Saudi Arabia..." This is no doubt partially true, but it is also true that they are protecting themselves too, and it is a crime in the US to use classification and secrecy to cover up crimes.
As Sibel says in the interview:
I have information about things that our government has lied to us about... those things can be proven as lies, very easily, based on the information they classified in my case, because we did carry very intimate relationship with these people, and it involves Central Asia, all the way up to September 11.
Summary
The bombshell here is obviously that certain people in the US were using Bin Laden up to September 11, 2001."
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 31, 2009 - 01:24pm PT
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So what? A lot of what she wants to say is top secret, so the feds told her to shut up. BFD. Tin Foilers would put a milk man on a podium if he was the one person blabbing about this nonsense and supporting their view.
So how come no serious newspaper--and kooks like Mike MAlloy, Democratic Underground, etc. don't count--will touch this bunk with a tin foot pole?
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mojede
Trad climber
Butte, America
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Jul 31, 2009 - 01:35pm PT
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It's funny that folk will diss a source they are not familiar with, then turn around and site something like Popular Mechanics (or such) to back up their own viewpoint.
Dr F, not a crazy country--just a land filled WITH crazies!
BTW, over time, more "conspiracy theories" have been shown and proven right than CIA covert operations have been successful. FWIW
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rick d
climber
tucson, az
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Jul 31, 2009 - 01:52pm PT
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So what. Bin Laden is dead and has been for I would wager 5 years. There are things in this life to worry about (like excessive bolting, chipping, etc) and bullshiat like who killed Kennedy etc.
the boogie man is dead drop it.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 31, 2009 - 01:53pm PT
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This is about as rational as the birthers.
Hope you guys don't lose sleep over this nonsense.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 31, 2009 - 01:59pm PT
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"I beleive it, Bush planned and let 911 happen "
Is bush an idiot, or a conspiratorial genius?
He can't be both.
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Russ Walling
Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
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Jul 31, 2009 - 02:05pm PT
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I just heard this exact same thing! Told to me by a guy outside the Circle K with a shopping cart full of cans, bottles, a bust of the Virgin Mary, and a Pomeranian wearing a foil hat.
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mojede
Trad climber
Butte, America
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Jul 31, 2009 - 02:08pm PT
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Where did you two go climb and hang out at, Russ?
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Russ Walling
Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
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Jul 31, 2009 - 02:09pm PT
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I took him over to Blitzo's house and dropped him off. I think they are doing some Bible Study or something today.
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Jay Wood
Trad climber
Fairfax, CA
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Jul 31, 2009 - 02:22pm PT
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Oh and let's don't forget that Bin Laden died in Dec 2001.
He had kidney failure, remember, and was on dialysis. He had been hospitalized in July, 2001.
His last clearly authentic video was aired on Dec 27 2001, and he appeared gaunt, possibly having had a stroke.
December 13- 14 were the last of what had been his frequent radio communications, and he hasn't been heard from since.
A Dec 15 funeral was reported in Pakistani newspapers, and his death was acknowledged at the time by the Bush administration, including Rumsfeld, Oliver North, and Isreali intelligence.
Dozens of videos since have featured various figures younger, healthier, right-handed (Bin Laden was left-handed), different nose, different hands, and speaking in a much less religious tone.
Remember how the whole theme of capturing Bin Laden faded after 2004? Yet this dead horse is still being beaten, as Clinton just recently alluded to hunting for Bin Laden and al-Qaeda in the mountains of Pakistan.
[url}http://informationclearinghouse.info/article23122.htm[/url]
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 31, 2009 - 02:49pm PT
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I do not know if Bin Laden is dead or alive. It really doesn't matter. What matters is keeping the concept of a "Boogey Man" alive. FEAR. FEAR. FEAR. How come we don't use the color code anymore? I think that everyone saw through that too easily. It was a joke.
They will re-edit and re-play Bin Laden tapes until the cows come home as long as it serves their purpose as a boogey man. And we will hunt his ghost until then also. As long as the American public are asleep and M$M doesn't cover the truth this whole propaganda capaign is CIA textbook and it works. Just see the responses in this thread to those who think nothing of it.
They swallow the line, hook, line and sinker all the way, and very easily.
Sibel Edmonds is telling the truth as well as many others who are in positions to know within our government, and yet no one listens. Everything is labelled a "conspiracy" and "tin-foil hat" and everyone goes back to sleep including many here on ST. Sad, so sad. ST is a microcosm in some ways of the world around us. The thing is conspiracies do happen. People do collude and plan secretly to do harm and evil, and often they get away with it. Especially when you have as much practice at it as our CIA. Their whole mission is covert. It is their mission to lie.
Yea, yea, yea . . . conspiracies never happen. WAKE UP!
Hundreds of FBI agents arrest powerful American Jews involved in international Jewish conspiracy
http://www.theinsider.org/news/article.asp?id=2749
Oliver Stone: JFK and the Unspeakable
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/oliver-stone/jfk-and-the-unspeakable_b_243924.html
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6134490
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/10/nbc-to-air-newly-discover_n_133777.html
276 of 296 people found the following review helpful:
5.0 out of 5 stars And We Are All Mortal, June 8, 2008
By Nick Anez - See all my reviews
In James W. Douglass' outstanding new book, "JFK and the Unspeakable," the author explains the title in his introduction. Coined by spiritual writer Thomas Merton, The Unspeakable refers to "an evil whose depth and deceit seemed to go beyond the capacity of words to describe." Regarding the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, the Unspeakable succeeded due to deniability by the nation's citizens of the horrifying truth of the event and to plausible deniability by the government agencies responsible for the murder. (Vincent Bugliosi's recent fictional paperweight is a perfect example of the plausible deniability that allows the Unspeakable to thrive.)
Many excellent books have proven that the assassination of JFK was the result of a conspiracy. Douglass verifies the certainty of the conspiracy and, as the subtitle of the book states, explains "Why He Died and Why It Matters." He scrutinizes the historical facts surrounding the assassination, from the creation of the CIA to the gradual obliteration of the freedoms upon which this nation was founded.
This book is primarily the story of John F. Kennedy who changes from a Cold Warrior to an altruistic leader willing to risk his life to ensure that the world's children will not become victims of a nuclear catastrophe. Equal time is spent on JFK's presidency as on the assassination but one of the many rewards of this book is the author's capacity to show the relationship between his policies and his death. And the book is a tragedy because it gradually becomes obvious that each step he makes toward peace steadily increases the hatred of his enemies who will eventually betray him.
It is also the story of the designated patsy, Lee Harvey Oswald. Moved around the country like a pawn by government agencies (as was the second "Oswald"), he was being set up as the scapegoat. Enter some despicable characters, including David Atlee Philips, James Hosty and, of course, Michael and Ruth Paine. Simultaneously, the Soviet Union was being set up as the evil empire behind the assassination, along with its satellite Cuba.
Douglass credibly illustrates the origin of the Crime of the Century. During President Truman's administration, the CIA was empowered to be a paramilitary organization with unlimited powers. Truman's successor, President Eisenhower, fell out of favor with the CIA when he planned a summit meeting with Soviet Premier Khrushchev. This was cancelled after a U.S. spy plane crashed in Russia. Eisenhower had reportedly ordered such flights cancelled and had his suspicions about who had ruined his peace plan. He subsequently issued his warning about the "military industrial complex" in his farewell address. But he didn't defy "this conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry." He left that task to his successor, JFK.
The Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba was planned by the CIA to regain control of the island and to re-open the casinos for organized crime. President Kennedy refused to provide air support for the Cuban brigade because he knew that he had been lied to by the Joint Chiefs of Staff and by the CIA; the invasion had been designed to fail without U.S. support but they hadn't told this to JFK who refused to fall into their trap. During the Cuban Missile Crisis, JFK once again enraged the CIA and the Joint Chiefs by resisting their tremendous pressure on him to take military action which would have led to nuclear war.
Following that crisis, JFK became intent on ending the Cold War by establishing a peaceful relationship with the Soviet Union. However, many CIA and Pentagon personnel believed that it was better to be "dead than red" and that it was preferable to destroy civilization rather than let the Communists rule. They also knew that war generated billions of dollars into the arms industry. As a result, they would repeatedly subvert the President's policies and isolate him within his own government. Enter some more despicable characters: Richard Bissell, Charles Cabell, Henry Cabot Lodge, Lyman Lemnitzer, Curtis LeMay and perhaps the most contemptible of all, Allen Dulles. Ironically, JFK learned to trust Khrushchev more than people within his own government.
At American University on June 10, 1963, JFK spoke about his desire for world peace. He communicated his resolve to form a new relationship with Khrushchev. He spoke about the necessity of a pursuit toward disarmament. He related his intentions to establish a Nuclear Test Ban Treaty. He acknowledged his country's past faults and recognized the Russian people as wanting peace as much as the American people. "And we are all mortal," he stated. Though this extremely important speech was ignored in the United States, it was disseminated throughout the Soviet Union, per order of Khrushchev, who was prepared to respond favorably to JFK's peace initiative. The speech also certified JFK's death warrant. With so many powerful enemies opposing his policies and hating him, JFK didn't have a chance as he was being maneuvered into the crossfire in Dallas.
President Kennedy was aware of the power of his enemies and he knew the dangers facing him. But he persevered and mandated that all U.S. personnel would be withdrawn from Vietnam; he was determined to never send in combat troops even if this meant defeat. He also refused to intervene militarily in Laos. He exchanged private letters with Khrushchev, which infuriated the CIA, and secretly initiated plans to attain rapproachement with Cuba, which further incensed the Agency. Cuba's Fidel Castro, whom the CIA hated as intensely as it hated Kennedy, was equally eager to begin an American-Cuba dialogue. In fact, Castro was meeting with a JFK representative when the President was murdered. JFK died a martyr and the forces of evil that killed him also killed his vision of peace.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 31, 2009 - 02:57pm PT
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"I do not know if Bin Laden is dead or alive. It really doesn't matter. What matters is keeping the concept of a "Boogey Man" alive. FEAR. FEAR. FEAR"
You seem to be the most afraid of bogeymen of all of us.
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S.Powers
Social climber
Jtree, now in Alaska
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Jul 31, 2009 - 03:03pm PT
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"BTW, over time, more "conspiracy theories" have been shown and proven right than CIA covert operations have been successful. FWIW"
Prove it.
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Anguish
Mountain climber
Jackson Hole Wyo.
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Jul 31, 2009 - 03:14pm PT
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Oil, power, Afghanistan 101
Unocal, the California energy giant, worked with the Taliban for years before 9/11 attempting to secure a pipeline across Afghanistan to Pakistan and a port on the Arabian Sea so that oil from the "stan" countries to the north of Afghanistan could be shipped to the U.S. and other countries without having to go east through Russian controlled territory, ie the Black Sea.
Before that, the U.S. empowered the mujahadin (Mike Hoover, CBS) in their fight against Soviet invaders, but abandoned Afghanistan afterward. The Taliban stepped in, some contend, to establish law and control, albeit their own, in a nation divided by warlords (Taliban "ambassador" who was schooled at Yale).
Daniel Yergin, in "The Prize" contends that all major conflicts since oil became our major energy supply revolve around the axle that is its ownership, production and distribution.
U.S. diplomats frequently refer to American "interests." We don't have friends when it comes to global politics.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Jul 31, 2009 - 03:21pm PT
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What Anguish says is detailed quite expensively in the great book, "Ghost Wars". Since the Al Queda Africa attacks, Bin Laden has had a price on his head by the US, and we have tried to kill him repeatedly. Once blowing up his farm with 75 Cruise missiles during the Clinton administration. Anything is possible, but I highly doubt we have had anything to do with Bin Laden since the attacks. Yet one has to wonder why he is possibly still alive if that is true.
The Yergin book, "The Prize" is exellent and a top 100 choice as well. There was a reason it won the Pulitzer prize.
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atchafalaya
climber
Babylon
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Jul 31, 2009 - 03:46pm PT
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I thought this was old news: Bush and the Saudis, including Bin Ladens, were tied financially. Wheres the bombshell? Or, where have you been for the lst 15 years?
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mojede
Trad climber
Butte, America
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Jul 31, 2009 - 03:57pm PT
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SPowers, since there have been ZERO successful covert ops by the CIA (that have come out), it's pretty easy really.
Research E. Howard Hunt.
edit: BTW research means more than reading a Wiki page
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WBraun
climber
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You guys don't know all details. Nope
Had a guy the govt sent to me. They said you gotta train this guy.
Make him bleed.
Hike, climb, thrash all kinds of harsh sh#t.
My pay was extra rations of food stamps. That was the high life.
Secret sh'it, even Russ never knew.
Guys trained from the raw camp 4 ways...... never got caught.
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Russ Walling
Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
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We have all had our secret gigs Werner.... I trained a guy for a few weeks in the Valley, doing all the hard ass shiit.... hiking, Deli, OW's and then he says it.... He needed to be able to make love to man as good as any woman.... so I had Walleye train him...... up in the talus for like a week or more.... it was classified, but I believe they got trained.
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dirtbag
climber
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"Klimmer is a nut job, for his bible code confessions
but this
prove him wrong "
No. Prove him right.
That's the problem with conspiracy hypotheses. As long as there is a "them" who is amazingly adept at covering their tracks, these things can never be disproven.
Claiming the US government destroyed the biggest buildings in its biggest city is an extraordinary claim, requiring extraordinary proof. So prove it.
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running on MT
Mountain climber
Winthrop, WA
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To Those Who are Interested,
Osama Bin Laden was recruited by George H.W. Bush in '76 to run five camps along the Afghanistan/Pakistan border. I was in Torquam in '84 watching the stingers taken off the trucks and loaded on donkeys for the trip over the Khyber Pass.
Osama was a CIA asset, aka Tim Osman. If you don't like terrorists, stop arming and training them.
Here is a complete 911 timeline:
http://www.historycommons.org/project.jsp?project=911_project
Here is the link to the peer reviewed paper that identified un-exploded nanothermite in the dust in Manhattan:
http://www.bentham.org/open/tocpj/openaccess2.htm
The NSA's Q group is dedicated to suppressing stories relating the Federal govt's to involvement in 911:
http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_4878.shtml
Here is a video that presents information about those involved:
http://www.911missinglinks.com/
Everyone has an opinion, luckily there is only one set of facts. Metallurgical analysis has revealed that WTC 1, 2 & 7 were engineered demolitions beyond any doubt.
Peace, Freedom and Truth to You All,
mt
P.S. There is no evidence tying Bin Laden to 911. Check the FBI's most wanted list.
http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten/fugitives/laden.htm
They are looking for him in connection to the Embassy bombing in Kenya and Tanzania, because they have no evidence tying him to the 911 controlled demolitions.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Question to ask yourself:
There have been conspiracies that are well accepted and known these days, some are mainstream, some are almost there.
Ie, Nobody doubts the US was behind the Bay of Pigs or fudged the Bay of Tonkin information. Few informed people doubt that Bush got us into Iraq for reasons other than 9-11 or WMDs. We know they cooked the intel.
Operation Northwoods was proposed at the highest level (google it) but Kennedy shot it down. We're not above this stuff.
So really ask yourself, if these actions weren't so well documented, and somebody alleged them, would you think they were wearing a tin foil hat?
Anything that's threatening to become public but needs to stay covered up is going to have unbelievable disinformation attached to it. That's the way anybody smart would discredit something
Peace
Karl
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Homer
Mountain climber
Santa Cruz, CA
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Yes, we're quite magnificent, aren't we? With our limitless perceptions, and our infallible underderstanding, each one of us more magnificent than the next ..
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Hang in there Klimmer! Remember that mouth breathers can't see the truth through the obfuscation. They are easily threatened by challenges to their canned beliefs. Speaking truth to power (or self imposed ignorance) is a lonely path.
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fairweather
Mountain climber
Roseville, CA
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I'm assuming all you conspiracy believers also think Obama was born in Kenya. Or do you just believe the ones you like?
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Mustang
climber
From the wild, not the ranch
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9/11 investigation, no scientific forensic analysis of structural steel columns to determine actual cause of collapse?? salvaged steel shipped to fishkill ny scrap yard and quickly sold on the scrap market, so much in fact that scrap steel prices on the global market plummet. wtf? didn't want to have documented those traces of thermate cutter charges, eh?
ten times more money was spent on investigating clinton and monica-gate than towers collapse. wtf??
liberty 7, building adjacent to towers, collapsed because of fire?? official report. wtf?? no tall building in any city has ever collapsed because of fire, see reports by A.A.E., american architectural engineers.
Liberty 7 housed nyc emerg response hqts, also was alleged base ops for mossad, Israelie version of C.I.A., who apparently placed thermate cutter charges at core of WTC buildings under guise of night maintenance. very convenient for any evidence of such ops to be completely demolished in yet another building collapse.
that said, who benefits from 9/11?
1. Israel, protected from potentially hostile majority Arab population, by major U.S. military presence in gulf now due to WMD and S.Hussein/ Al Quada lies and war powers act.
2. Neocons, who put GWB and Dick Head in power, fearful of forever losing power in geopolitical and economic arenas, now has ultimate political control due to instant war powers act granted by Congress and the ever UN-Constitutional provisions of the now needed 'Patriot Act'. Can now govern using fear tactics to keep population from asking the difficult and important questions.
3. Halliburtion, K.B.R., Bechtel, Blackwater, SAIC, Boeing, Lockheed, et al,, seen their balance sheets since 9/11? we're talking profit gains and margins in the thousands of percentiles.
4. Those on wall st. who had 'puts' or short contracts in on the airline stocks to plummet, days prior to 9/11 made hundreds of millions in the days following.
People are manipulated in many ways every day, through many outlets. Just because it was said to be so, on Fox, Cnn or the rest of the mainstream media outlets, does not mean it is completely true. Not even close.
Remember the WMD lies? Yeah, the U.S. gov't knew they were there cause 'ol Donny Rummy acting as a special envoy for Reagan sold 'em to Saddam way back in '82 or something.
Keep on believing what you believe, the gov't wants it that way, honor, courage, commitment, freedom, democracy, bullshite I say, words used to manipulate young uns to enlist for service, and to continually manipulate generally fat and stupid, mall-pig, debt riddled, consumer americans for reasons most people will never understand.
Anyone seen the new global currency coins? New world order, get yours once the dollar is completely worthless cause they have to keep printing more.
Democracy is the ideal, Global Capitalism is the reality.
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WBraun
climber
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Good one Mustang.
I'm tired of hearing the stupid sheep who always come out with their tin foil hat bullshiit.
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Ha ha ha. I'd rather wear a tin foil hat than blinders.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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"All of you conspiracy theorists fall right into the twisted mind-play that is the intention of terrorism in the first place. Once they have your mind, as the old saying says, your ass will follow.
Their intent is to instill fear. Weak minded, unprovable conspiracies are a seed of that fear. Subsequently, the terrorists use you as a tool without you even realizing it. You just get all worked up, blame it all on Bush or Cheney, or whomever it is you like to rail against."
You may say that but better balance it with the unassailable fact that the US banded Al Queda together in Afghanistan, trained em, armed em, and called them "freedom fighters"
Knocking down democracy and installing the Shah in Iran is another example of us setting the seed for our own terrorist problem.
We expect every other country to pay for their terrorism and reform but we don't do so ourselves.
Just like in all the other countries like Iraq where we support and armed thugs and terrorists, turned out head from death and oppression and got surprised when they turned on us
This much is not conspiracy theory. You have to be uninformed to deny it. How long Bin Laden worked for the US is debatable but secondary to our self defeating and dishonest foreign policy that consistently provides blowback and backfire.
Peace
Karl
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Mustang
climber
From the wild, not the ranch
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Noshoesnoshirt, that vid basically sums it up.
Here's a relevant quote from Nazi Joseph Goebbels head of the nazi propaganda machine.
“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”
Cragman, you got it about falling into the trap of fear through terrorism, except the guise is foreign terrorism.., mostly by islamic extremists. How convenient to pigeon hole another ethnic group, especially by media moguls of mostly Jewish faith and corporate ceo's of Christian faith. Did you forget where McVeigh got his training and how quickly he was executed lest the whole truth be revealed?
A few thousand dead people don't mean shite to the powers that be, and we're not talking about deaths from foreign terrorism. It is all about 'national interests' a.k.a. corporate profits. How many dead, innocent Iraqi civilians caused by U.S. Military action does it take for proof, 750K, 1 mil? Just a few estimates of so-called 'collateral damage' for protecting our 'National Interests' in Iraq.
Like I said, keep on believing what you want, just remember to 'go shopping' if anything bad ever happens...
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WBraun
climber
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cragman
Only sheep are afraid. Why you hang out with sheep?
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coondogger
Trad climber
NH
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Question...September 10th 2001 around sunset, my friend and I are driving west through Pennsylvania. Chuck is driving and I become unexplainably overwhelmed by a horrible feeling of dread that something terrible is about to happen. I mean cold sweat fear, dread.
Anyone else have this experience or ever hear this kind of thing? I have had several of these experiences through life but never anything that was followed by something as large scale as 9/11.
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mojede
Trad climber
Butte, America
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All that I remember on September 10th is watching Donald Rumsfeldt announcing on network television that the Department of Defense could not account for 2.1 TRILLION dollars.
After that, life became a blur...
...but then again, I forgot all about the 2.1 TRILLION dollars unaccounted for.
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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I read the first couple parag's, right up until they called Turkey a "puppet state of the US" What a bunch of BS.
As if everyone we had a half decent relationship with were our puppets.
I'll tell you what you need to start worrying about Klimmer, us being China's puppet when they call in all their chips......
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dirtbag
climber
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You are THE MAN, Fatty.
Can I work for you, MR. MAN?
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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"All that I remember on September 10th is watching Donald Rumsfeldt announcing on network television that the Department of Defense could not account for 2.1 TRILLION dollars. "
Who needs a 9-11 conspiracy when we haven't even poked our noses into where 2.1 trillion bucks went.
Come on! It's not like they didn't have computers or follow money!
Such BS
PEace
Karl
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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"Question...September 10th 2001 around sunset, my friend and I are driving west through Pennsylvania. Chuck is driving and I become unexplainably overwhelmed by a horrible feeling of dread that something terrible is about to happen. I mean cold sweat fear, dread.
Anyone else have this experience or ever hear this kind of thing? I have had several of these experiences through life but never anything that was followed by something as large scale as 9/11."
I had 2 paranormal experiences in relation to the 9/11 attacks.
The first occurred at what was the same time the 2nd plane was hitting the WTC. I was on a city bus, riding up 6th Avenue(That plane must have nearly gone over my head, and neither I nor anyone else on the bus heard a thing/noticed).
Anyway, I was sort of dozing, and I had a really(even for me) weird daydream, in which my boss at the time(who happened to be Jordanian, and a jerk) was in his office, being "visited" by a group of what I would describe as religous-y mafia types.
They were confronting him, saying he had been bad - greedy, abusive to his employees(Me, dammit!!!, I was thinking in the daydream), cheating, selfish and all manner of against-the-good behavior.
They were telling him he had one chance - now - to repent. They were quite emphatic. There were three of them. Any my boos was shitting his pants in fear but bluffing bravado.....Not gonna cave. Not going to acknowledge their truth....
Then, the next thing I got, somehow related to this daydream-y thing, was voices, in unison, praying The Lord's Prayer.
For some reason, I could fully grasp the meaning behind the words, in a way that generally only occurs in a dream state, when everything is sublime. At any rate, I "heard" these people praying - who they were, I didn't know - and with the full power of the thing, I found tears streaming down my face.
Quite bizarre.
The second thin really was in an asleep dream. It was a glorious, wonderful dream, that happened on the 3rd day after the buildings were attacked.
In my dream I was seeing the entire group of all the people who had been in the building collapse. They had been(in the dream) stuck underground, and it had taken them all this time to find the exit.... But they had found it! And here the came - men, women, firemen, police - walking up the steps of, of all things, a subway entrance!
It was really an incredible dream, and I remember feeling ecstatic that nobody had died. They were ALL alive and coming out of the experience. I woke up at that moment ready to GET OUT THERE and rejoice with the world that everyone was safe....
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 6, 2009 - 04:46pm PT
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Been gone for awhile to Bishop,
Wow. Sometimes we just gotta get away and push ourselves from the internet feed line stuck in our vein.
Wow. Sorry I missed the name-calling. Apparently I got in the wrong line when brains were being handed-out. Ouch. LOL.
Some of us get it and some of us don't. I really appreciate the others here who get it. Hats off to you here at ST that get it. The others, well . . . truth trickles in one small drop at a time. There is hope yet.
Great post by, MT. Reposting:
"To Those Who are Interested,
Osama Bin Laden was recruited by George H.W. Bush in '76 to run five camps along the Afghanistan/Pakistan border. I was in Torquam in '84 watching the stingers taken off the trucks and loaded on donkeys for the trip over the Khyber Pass.
Osama was a CIA asset, aka Tim Osman. If you don't like terrorists, stop arming and training them.
Here is a complete 911 timeline:
http://www.historycommons.org/project.jsp?project=911_project
Here is the link to the peer reviewed paper that identified un-exploded nanothermite in the dust in Manhattan:
http://www.bentham.org/open/tocpj/openaccess2.htm
The NSA's Q group is dedicated to suppressing stories relating the Federal govt's to involvement in 911:
http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_4878.shtml
Here is a video that presents information about those involved:
http://www.911missinglinks.com/
Everyone has an opinion, luckily there is only one set of facts. Metallurgical analysis has revealed that WTC 1, 2 & 7 were engineered demolitions beyond any doubt.
Peace, Freedom and Truth to You All,
mt
P.S. There is no evidence tying Bin Laden to 911. Check the FBI's most wanted list.
http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten/fugitives/laden.htm
They are looking for him in connection to the Embassy bombing in Kenya and Tanzania, because they have no evidence tying him to the 911 controlled demolitions."
By the way, it seems Sibel Edmonds might have a way to testify without technically violating her gag order. I hope she does. She is a very beautiful and brave woman.
FBI Whistleblower Sibel Edmonds Subpoenaed, Set to 'Break' Gag Order Unless DoJ Intercedes
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4002529
http://www.bradblog.com/?p=7341
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LccMonkey
Trad climber
utah
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You guys need to watch zietgiest. It explains everything. You can find it on youtube.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 8, 2009 - 06:08pm PT
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Well, good news so far. The DOJ was a no show and Sibel Edmonds has been free to answer all questions she was asked . I hope she told all she could . . .
* Bradblog LIVE BLOGGING Sibel Edmonds deposition *
http://www.bradblog.com/?p=7347
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WBraun
climber
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Sibel Edmonds, yes go Sibel.
She's a real hero, and mega balls too.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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I certainly seems the story isn't catching on yet, but it would seem possible that it would be hard to ignore when an agent accuses a congresswomen of supporting a foreign government because she was blackmailed for being lesbian after that government set her up.
How do you ignore that?
All violence gets ignored but nasty sex tales love telling
Peace
karl
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WBraun
climber
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Of course it's not catching on.
The sheep are all asleep, awaiting their turn to the slaughterhouse.
This is what America does the best, kill everything, the slaughterhouse capital of the whole world.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Aug 10, 2009 - 01:24pm PT
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Still no Mainstream media mention of these serious allegations made under oath?
Peace
Karl
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Josh Nash
Social climber
riverbank ca
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Aug 10, 2009 - 02:27pm PT
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this is a thread drift so be warned......
two good books that really explains the whole situation
1.) Ghost Wars
2.) Charlie wilson's war
my thought: it's the age where you can believe anything you want because someone out there says it and can possibly back it up. Did Bin Laden work for the cia?...maybe not directly but I'm sure info went both ways. Hey the Ruskies where common enemies at the time so the old adage the enemy of my enemy.....
9/11 is not some conspiracy to set war onto motion war was set into motion way before that like when the moores invaveded europe. Same battle different time. If anything history teaches either you forcing influence on some one or some one is forcing influence upon you.
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dirtbag
climber
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Aug 12, 2009 - 05:47pm PT
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"Isn't it sad how the real breaking news is right under our nose and the MSM (that is corporate owned by repuglican thugs), purposefully avoids it? "
Oh, so that's why none of the MSM will touch this with a ten foot pole.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 12, 2009 - 06:10pm PT
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Yes, sometimes the truth indeed hurts. But there it is.
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dirtbag
climber
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Sep 23, 2009 - 12:37pm PT
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 23, 2009 - 12:41pm PT
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DB,
You continually respond as your moniker suggests you are. Not surprising.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 24, 2009 - 09:33am PT
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Does anyone read here on ST?
Apparently one of the biggest stories to recently break wide open. Names are named for high treason and crimes within our government and even published on the cover of a respected "Right Wing" mag not doubt and all we hear on ST about this is ....
crickets.
Geee. You would think this would inspire a lot of new commentary.
Sibel Edmonds American Hero.
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Sep 24, 2009 - 10:31am PT
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Yes Klimmer she is absolutely an American hero.
One qquestion however regarding your thread title.
Do you think Bin Laden stopped working for the Bush Crime Syndicate on 9/12?
Because I think he was still on the payroll.
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Gene
climber
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Sep 24, 2009 - 11:15am PT
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Bib Laden was placed on the FBI 10 Most Wanted list in June 1999. And then still worked for the US until 9/11/2001? Curious employment rules.
Signed,
A Sheep.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 24, 2009 - 11:34am PT
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Philo,
I think so too. "They" need a boogey-man. We had him surrounded post 9-11 at one time and then let him slip through and escape.
You know he has been such a good soldier and CIA asset for us. Just let him be the boogey-man on into retirement. Apparently it probably comes with a good medical and dental plan also.
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tom woods
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Sep 24, 2009 - 01:48pm PT
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Damn interesting story in the American Conservative, but as a reporter there are issues, that don't mean that she's lying or this is false mind you, but issues.
This is a single source story, you either believe her or you don't. A single source could be wrong, a single source could be intentionally spinning you (which is what you would expect) A single source is only privy to the facts that the source is privy to. The translator- it's plausible that a translator would be privy to more information than most.
If she is the most gagged woman in America according to the hated ACLU, she sure doesn't sound like a gagged woman. I just read her words.
The murky dealings between govt, big business, and crazy mujehideen around the world has been documented before. The reporters at American Conservative, should be able to provide some sort of back up or corroboration.
I'm not saying this lady is lying, I'm saying that there is more work to do to back her up. Also, if this is true, where's the conspiracy?
This is really a question about the degree of control and assistance the US gave the "freedom fighters," that were so popular in the 80's.
What does "worked for the CIA mean." Did he receive some weapons, training, cover for the training camps? This is plausible, as these camps were mujhedeen camps, with small side camps for terrorists, from what I've read.
Did Bin Laden get the go ahead from the CIA or other US government figure to crash planes into American buildings? This seems like a stretch, but a critical stretch to the argument.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Sep 24, 2009 - 01:55pm PT
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"This is a single source story, you either believe her or you don't. A single source could be wrong, a single source could be intentionally spinning you (which is what you would expect) A single source is only privy to the facts that the source is privy to. The translator- it's plausible that a translator would be privy to more information than most. "
She claims to be a government employee reporting on documented investigated by teams of other agents. The evidence is all there if the government chooses to disclose it. Why refer to documents that are just made up when the gov could throw you right under the bus (and they want to) if she was lying
Peace
Karl
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tom woods
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Sep 24, 2009 - 02:16pm PT
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I ain't saying she's lying.
I'm saying that we should keep some space in our heads for the possibility that she is, that she is wrong, that she is crazy, that she is spinning us.
We are spun everyday, from so many angles it's impossible to know what's true. A single source story is usually the worst offender for spin.
American Conservative? Gosh they are telling on their cover that they are trying to spin you.
This lady seems to have good credentials, but who knows.
A more interesting argument would be, what is the significance of her story if true.
Did president Bush say, "yeah Osama, the plane thing seems like a good idea, I read it in Clancy, go for it bro."
Probably not.
Did our loosely defined plan to arm these guys against the commies backfire on us? Probably.
What is the command structure. Do we control these guys like Iran controls Hezbollah, or like Iran helps Hamas from time to time? Send them arms and see what they do? Or send them the arms, train them, and tell them to wait further orders?
Is is all reprehensible? yes, in my opinion.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Sep 24, 2009 - 09:44pm PT
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The bottom line is that I think the facts call for a honest investigation. Many years have passed, so how much national security is really compromised by getting the truth about one of the nation's biggest events.
How hard is that? It's needed because even the 9-11 commission says the government lied to them repeatedly at every turn. Let's find out why?
PEace
Karl
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 24, 2009 - 10:27pm PT
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With Sibel Edmonds there are undisbuted facts:
She worked for the FBI as a translator.
She was privy to many inside documents.
She whistleblew to uncover wrong-doing, and they fired her.
Then our government gaged her.
She was able to come out and say what she knew because she was a witness in a court case and put under oath.
I think she has had enough of being gaged and wants to let the world know what she knows. She is brave and a hero for doing so.
The US government could have pulled the State Secrets card again and gaged her this last time but didn't.
She would be an idiot to make any of it up. She would be throwing her life away, and she could be sued multiple times, and probably sent to prison.
Ask yourself why the US government gaged her. What does she know that they do not want known. The fact that the US gov has done so comfirms her story. It is very damaging.
There is your answer.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 24, 2009 - 11:22pm PT
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Dr. F,
Seek and you shall find.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 28, 2009 - 12:46am PT
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We could never imagine 9-11 happening. Right? Who could have imagined 4 commercial airliners could have been used as WMDs and slammed into the WTC towers or the Pentagon?
Well apparently we did over and over again:
USAF general grilled on pre 9/11 intelligence that terrorists would use planes as weapons
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x378585
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aaf6NuKRHE
General: But who could have thunk it? C'mon give the guy a break. We never could have known or thunk it. Honestly.
The people of the United States : Ah, General? We just did that exact war game scenerio just a few months ago and a few years prior to that. Might want to let Condi and GWB know that too.
General: Gosh dang it. I hate it when the people are smart and they use facts. You people are supposed to be watching Faux News. Stay off the internets! Dang it, I hate it when I'm made to look like a fool. Ok, note to self: next made-up war pull the plug on the internets. We really thought owning the networks was gonna be enough propaganda. Dang it all. Live and learn.
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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The truth is out there. Bring it on!
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Jingy
Social climber
Flatland, Ca
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don't try to tell this to blue.. he might just throw you a bombshell full of "commie" comments, and other assorted slurs....
Yeah, heard it, I can believe this a whole lot easier than I can believe the 7 days theory/belief most Americans base their lives on......
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