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Kurt Ettinger
Trad climber
Martinez, CA
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Jul 17, 2009 - 05:47pm PT
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Are Recreational Repellers considerd climbers?
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
way, WAY out there....(OMG)
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Jul 17, 2009 - 05:53pm PT
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Uh, no.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jul 17, 2009 - 05:55pm PT
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Careful, gang - I believe that Chouinard may have started as a rappeller, something to do with birds maybe.
Tom (Rohrer) established the Nose rappel route on El Capitan, and the Lost Arrow chimney rappel route.
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gooth
climber
San Francisco
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Jul 17, 2009 - 05:55pm PT
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There isn't much of a legitimate case to be made for installing rappel anchors for *climbers* -- the route is pretty short, there's an easy walk off, and you can retreat from any point in the route by leaving gear / utilizing existing fixed anchors.
The case of for *recreational rappelling* is totally non-existent. You're talking about five star climbing route whose use as a climbing route was established well before any use as a recreational rappel route.
Furthermore, the establishment of a sport-rappel route on this climbing route presents a significant safety hazard. Given the prominence and popularity of Crying Time Again and the ease of access to the top by sport-rappellers, collisions between climbers and thrown/tossed rappel ropes are inevitable.
Though I am a climber, I don't necessarily believe in the primacy of climbing as a use of the outdoors -- I realize that outdoor space is a limited resource that must be shared; sport-rappelers represent one possible use of park space and are probably treated as equals to climbers by the park service.
Given the historical use of Crying Time Again as a climbing route, I do believe that climbing use takes precedent over rappel use. If the situation were reversed, and that part of Lembert had been established as a popular rappel route, I'd be urging climbers to respect its first use as a rappel route.
Vince
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Kurt Ettinger
Trad climber
Martinez, CA
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Jul 17, 2009 - 06:44pm PT
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I'm with gooth. Being a climber myself, I can't understand this as a choice for a "sport rappel" route? I've climbed Cryn' Time a few years back, and I don't remember it being extensively steep or something that would make for exciting sport rappelling.
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the Fet
Supercaliyosemistic climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Jul 17, 2009 - 07:03pm PT
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"More specifics with anchor photos later."
Let's not rush to judgement.
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Bullwinkle
Boulder climber
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Jul 17, 2009 - 07:05pm PT
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Hi Tom Rohr,aka "Mad Bolter"
I hope you're enjoying the summer, will I see you in the Valley this Fall?
Tom was the first man to rappel El Cap, he's established many rappel routes in Yosemite and the Meadows, and yes he's about a hunderd years old at last count (or at least his gear is) and he's a friend of mine so. . .be nice. . .df
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MisterE
Trad climber
One Step Beyond!
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Jul 17, 2009 - 08:32pm PT
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Best Troll since the Jesus thing
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GDavis
Trad climber
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Jul 17, 2009 - 09:01pm PT
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i thought mad bolter was richard jensen? If it is him, he's just pullin our legs ;D
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Jul 17, 2009 - 09:04pm PT
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Rapping off of stacked stoppers is much more fun.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Jul 17, 2009 - 09:12pm PT
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MAD BOLTER = Tom Rohrer
Madbolter = Rex Pieper
madbolter1 = Richard Jensen
To keep the mad bolters straight!
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Jul 17, 2009 - 09:44pm PT
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Jim,
No, I don't know what Tom's reasoning was.
I haven't been in contact with him since last summer.
Last August, he wanted to refurbish the rappel route down from the Lost Arrow Notch, and fix a few things on the Nose rappel route. But the weather was brutally hot, and he was not in shape to hike to the tops of these rappel routes (I'm not sure if I was in shape for this, either!). We did manage to replace a few notched lap links at Sickle Ledge and at anchors on the rappel route below the Stovelegs, but that was about it.
His other rappel routes are usually 150' or so between stations. So I don't know his exact reasoning here. My best guess is that he felt it would be a "public service". I have rappelled off Cryin' Time Again a few times, but with 2 ropes.
I like using the Grand Wazoo anchors to rappel from the Central Pillar of Frenzy, to avoid crowding at the CPF anchors. I don't know if Cryin' Time Again has this type of problem, but it might. I'd like to see where he added anchors - hopefully he will post photos to show this.
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WBraun
climber
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Jul 17, 2009 - 09:49pm PT
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Recreational Repellers, Hahahaha LOL
This thread is too funny.
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Trad
Trad climber
northern CA
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Jul 17, 2009 - 09:57pm PT
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The first time I climbed in Tuolumne it was with one of my favorite climbing partners, Maribel. We got there in the afternoon and climbed West Country, after which there were still a couple hours of light left so we were looking for something else to do. ("Stop climbing when it's still light out? That's ridiculous!!" That's why she's a great climbing partner.) In those days neither of us felt comfortable leading 5.10a but, inspecting the guide, we saw that with 2 ropes you could climb just the first 4 pitches of Cryin' Time and then rap off. (Yeah yeah I hear you, the walk off, blah blah. Again, it was our first time there.)
Well, to make a long story short, I trailed the extra rope while following the first pitch but it got stuck in the flakes so she lowered me, I freed the rope, and climbed the first pitch again. Second pitch was my lead but Maribel misread the topo and told me to avoid the bolts (I can't help feel at least partially responsible for trusting a peruvian still learning english, and not reading the topo myself). 20 feet above a purple TCU in a shallow flaring crack and making a slopey mantle I REALLY felt like crying. Finally I made the next belay and Maribel started to follow with the extra rope still trailing all the way down. Of course it got stuck in that base flake again, too far down for her to be lowered. The sun was setting and air chilling so we started yelling at each other about how it was their fault for getting the rope stuck. It was great. Priceless.
Eventually Maribel got the rope free and we made it to the 4th belay where were rapped off into the dusk. Good times. The learning experience was just icing on the cake.
Hey Tom R., it was nice meeting and talking with you outside the store a couple weeks ago.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jul 17, 2009 - 11:10pm PT
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Just remember for a minute before you slag on Tom, that he's climbed and done bolt service in Yosemite from well before many of us were born. He's not new to the place or the issues.
"His other rappel routes are usually 150' or so between stations. So I don't know his exact reasoning here. My best guess is that he felt it would be a "public service". I have rappelled off Cryin' Time Again a few times, but with 2 ropes."
One exception would be the raps from Glacier Point Terrace. Now it would be unwise to go there but you used to be able to get off of the Oasis with one rope via his rap route way on the right.
Its also a totally unbased assumption to think he put in the rap route for the benefit of Sport Rappers, No Way.
He's just a guy who looks to give his service to the community. You might disagree and others might agree. Some folks think you shouldn't be able to rap the Nose without leaving gear but his contributions have saved a lot of asses over the years.
Peace
Karl
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Mike Bolte
Trad climber
Planet Earth
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Jul 17, 2009 - 11:23pm PT
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Ok Karl - but Crying Time? In an emergency it would be easy to get down from about anywhere on it. The walk off is really pretty nice--great view, you can make it as easy as you want by walking a little further.
I guess if the rap is off on the right side (looking up at the route) and doesn't get in the way of folks going up then maybe it doesn't make any difference, but it must be easier to walk off the top. "recreational rappelling" can't be a crazy assumption here. I guess that is as legit an activity as climbing or hiking or fishing or whatever.
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Greg Barnes
climber
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Jul 17, 2009 - 11:28pm PT
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I don't mean to slag on Tom, but having talked with him, replaced his bolts (Nose raps), etc, I think it's perfectly fair to say that recreational rappelling is an appropriate term for his bolting.
As I said earlier, we'll see if the bolts last.
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KP Ariza
climber
SCC
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Jul 17, 2009 - 11:35pm PT
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Hell, let's petition the park service for an elevator up there my old bones are getting creaky
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jul 17, 2009 - 11:55pm PT
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"In an emergency it would be easy to get down from about anywhere on it."
I've actually been rained off Cryin' Time a few times, and you better have two ropes to get out of there.
So I'm happy enough to only have to take one rope now. Maybe it's just me, but I don't need every outing to be a trad adventure with minimum convenience. It's a bolt protected line that's next to the parking lot.
Peace
Karl
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