Ivon Chouinard awarded honorary PHD from PENN today

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kunlun_shan

Mountain climber

SF, CA

May 19, 2009 - 04:07pm PT

Tami, you wrote "I wind up trusting the places I purchase from . I 'm not saying I trust Patagonia.......I know I sure don't trust MEC"

I know this is a bit off-thread, but am curious what you don't trust about MEC? Chinese manufacturing, or?

Mighty Hiker

Social climber

Vancouver, B.C.

May 19, 2009 - 04:09pm PT

My strategy is to consume as little as possible, knowing that I still consume more than I really need to. We're all hypocrites in that sense, and it's always hard to distinguish between mere "wants" and true "needs". But if you don't buy stuff in the first place, its origins and impacts are of less concern. Although if we all consumed less, the economy (about 2/3 based on want rather than need) would be very unhappy. (There's some argument that the current economic downturn is in part due to the baby boomers finally getting to an age where they consume less, are downsizing, etc.)

When I do consume, I try to get products that are reliable and durable, from stores and manufacturers that at least are credibly trying with regard to things like labour standards, environmental impacts, local origin, etc. Preferably companies that aren't too self-righteous, and are always trying to do better. Organizations like Patagonia and MEC fit that bill. Sure, they're easy targets. But the fact that they've knowingly set themselves up as targets speaks for itself.

I haven't met Yvon, but am quite sure he's as complicated and sometimes self-contradictory as the rest of us. He has shown considerable leadership, whether with regard to climbing equipment innovation, clean climbing, or more recently the environment generally. I'm sure he doesn't mind a bit of criticism. It is a bit amusing that he seems to believe that surfers are more responsible than climbers. Both groups are spirited, and both well rooted in adolescent male sociology, with all that implies - exploration, risk, territory, in groups and out groups, etc. I doubt that the net per capita environmental impact of the one group is much different than the others'. As citizens of developed countries, we all have unsustainable impacts, even if we're careful to minimize those from our recreation.

klk

Trad climber

cali

May 19, 2009 - 04:27pm PT

"The places I have seen Patagonia stores are some of the highest rent retail districts imaginable. A retailer needs big gross margins and significant sales at those margins, just to pay the rent."

But they don't pay the rent-- I would expect that the premiere locations are chosen primarily for branding reasons, rather than the ability to produce profits at a specific site.

I haven't seen the books, but Patagonia has to make their biggest margins via online sales. Next would be high-volume big box folks like REI. You put a store in Chamonix not because you think sales there will cover the rent, but because you want to continue the brand association with the Alps. That doesn't bother me much. The mom-n-pop, owner-maker-craftsman deal evaporated before WW2.

The high margin items will be the things that smart consumers avoid: plastic underwear, logo t-shirts, and fleeces.

So far as Patagonia having moved out beyond a purely climber market, if the company hadn't, it'd be gone. And honestly, so long as they can maintain quality control and continue to produce technical wear, good on 'em. Get the white American middle-classes out of LaCoste and Tommy Bahama and Faconnable and into something with better design and an at least somewhat greener production.

Minerals

Social climber

The Deli

May 19, 2009 - 04:37pm PT

I was given a copy of Glen Denny’s book, Yosemite in the Sixties, last Hell-mas. It is a Patagonia book and is printed in China. After removing the plastic bubble wrap and cellophane from the book, I opened it to find that it had apparently been dropped on the floor, stepped on, had black smudges on some of the pages, and was filled with Chinese dust. One corner was bent inward – a result of it hitting the floor. So, somewhere along the production line the book was damaged, but then was put back on the line, packaged, and then sold as if it were just fine. I sent it back to where it came from, and then it was sent back to Patagonia mail order.

Where’s your quality control now, Pata-sellouts??? And BD Camalots too???????????

LAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

TradIsGood

Chalkless climber

the Gunks end of the country

May 19, 2009 - 04:57pm PT

What can you get with an honorary Ph. D.?

Heck, let everybody have one!

hossjulia

Trad climber

Eastside

May 19, 2009 - 05:05pm PT

I read "Let My People Go Surfing" after the *crew* left copies where I work.
I thought it was good, and it offers up a sustainable business model that was a little too dry for me, but that I would refer back to if need be.

Donini's comments are spot on.

Now if the US cotton growers would get on the organic bandwagon and hemp is legalized for industrial purposes I think you'd see the textile industry in this country take off again.

minerals, ewe that's kinda gross. (See you soon?)
I have not been that impressed with the quality of books printed in China. (Ron Kauk's little book comes to mind, it has really bad register problems.)

JoeG

climber

California

May 19, 2009 - 05:10pm PT

It is pretty easy to write off China or any other country's working conditions with blanket statements that have been posted. But sorry the conversation has evolved a bit. Some of the world's best factories are in China, better conditions and benefits than workers get here in the USA. Sure they aren't all like that, but it requires the consumer to do some research on the products they by. Patagonia for instance is pretty transparent as far as a company goes, showing you what is inside the factory through the footprint chronicles, publishing their factory list where their product is made and has a department dedicated to social responsibility. They are not perfect but they are better than most brands out there.

http://www.patagonia.com/web/us/footprint/index.jsp?slc=en_US&sct=US