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LuckyPink
climber
the last bivy
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May 14, 2009 - 11:22pm PT
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in fact, get a nice 60m 10.2
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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May 15, 2009 - 12:31am PT
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That is a truly funny image, Ron!
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dee ee
Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
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May 15, 2009 - 12:36am PT
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Retire it.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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May 15, 2009 - 12:38am PT
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Wasn't that goldline, gold?
I had a white goldline, I called in a whiteline.
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captaincrimp
climber
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May 16, 2009 - 03:09pm PT
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I was Erik's belay when he took the fall.
erik tumbled a couple times during the fall and i was wondering if that comes into play when determining fall factor.
i did not feel a significant amount of force when the rope finnaly caught. I was not pulled above my anchor.
also, the fall occured at the beginning of a very long climb, before the crux, and we continued to climb on the rope.
i did a brief visual inspection before proceeding and did not see anything out of the ordinary that would warrant bailing (just minor sheath damage near erik's end, no major kinks or core exposure)
I would be comfortable climbing on this rope again, but i would like to thoroughly inspect it first, you never know
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GhoulweJ
Trad climber
Sacramento, CA
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May 16, 2009 - 06:01pm PT
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Nice form Ron. You really are a pleasure.
Seems unnecessary to rant and attack on a thread with a clear question.... Using the forum to boost your own ego could be judged as a negative character quality.
Cheers,
Jay Renneberg
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fletch lives
Social climber
south lake tahoe
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May 16, 2009 - 06:11pm PT
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Don't be a pussy. If your rope is new and the belay was dynamic(as it sounds), then it's probably fine.
fletch f. fletch
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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May 16, 2009 - 06:22pm PT
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1st question . was it really 70ft or was that climbers math?
When applying climbers math to any distances alluded to in relation to runouts and falls and pitch lengths one must factor in many things such as substance abuse and the re telling of the story as well as the passage of time.
"There I was 80ft out from my last piece which was a #2 BD micro wire behind a rotten expanding choss flake, i was shaking like a dog crapping razorblades and down to my last bud light".
Translation; Subject is holding 24oz Poligamy Ale in one hand, a fatty in other, waving hands wildly as he mimes the moves, It is currently midnight and the campfire is roaring and ocasionaly explodeing with tossed butane lighters. Climber was probobly 30ft over a solid #4 stopper.
On the honest and reliable end of the scale the math is still fuzzy and the real distances are more likly 50% to 75% of the claimed distance. So the guy went 40ft instead of 70. Still should just get a new rope.
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clustiere
Trad climber
berkeley ca
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May 16, 2009 - 06:30pm PT
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Man I forget everything if i don't write it down!! Thant is wht I have a climbing log. Ha ha run out on a #2 stopper placed in a horizontal crack - i do recall that.
I bet your rope is fine.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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May 16, 2009 - 06:38pm PT
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GhoulweJ,
you might be onto something there Jay.
Its always nice to be psychoanalyzed by somebody so well filled in on the background, like how many people who were a bit short on the requisite skills died on routes that I established.
But that couldn't be a real concern. It must be because I feel so superior saying that I was a mediocre climber for years while I added skills to my palette.
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captaincrimp
climber
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May 16, 2009 - 07:09pm PT
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yo tradmanclimbs, no telling if it was exactly 70 feet but it was pretty damn close to it. I was taking some video right before he fell (no whipper footage, turned it off when he climbed out of view) and it is easy to determine approx length of fall.
he was pretty far up and nearly fell back to the belay, rope caught him just before slamming into a ledge above me while screaming "f*#k, f*#k, f*#k, f*#k". crazy sh#t to watch.
oh yeah, i was definately not on drugs.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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May 16, 2009 - 08:27pm PT
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I see nothing above that gives the remotest indication that the rope should be retired.
Fall factor is a HUGE issue in how much a rope is stressed. If there is plenty of rope out to absorb the force of the fall, then it's no sweat on the rope (even if it scares the crap out of you)
Caldwell is up on EL Cap taken fall after fall like that! Sport Climbers put more stress on their ropes day after day.
Taking some high fall factor falls on your rope might prompt you to retire it cause it might be less stretchy and dynamic after that.
But it's also true, ropes breaking is nearly unheard of. Be careful of sharp edges, ropes cut
Peace
Karl
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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May 16, 2009 - 08:31pm PT
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"he was pretty far up and nearly fell back to the belay, rope caught him just before slamming into a ledge above me while screaming "f*#k, f*#k, f*#k, f*#k". crazy sh#t to watch."
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This sounds awfully close to a factor .5 fall.
Much of the discussion mischaracterizes the issues: it is NOT whether the rope has been weakened sufficiently, such that it would break in attempting to hold a fall. It will not.
The issue has to do with the whole dynamic quality of ropes: they stretch when you fall on them. However, as you have falls occur, you begin to stretch out the rope, and it essentially becomes converted into a STATIC rope. There is so much strength built into ropes, that when fully stretched out, it will still function fine as a static line for top-roping or a rap. And it will APPEAR NORMAL. You cannot detect this damage through inspection! If you take a significant lead fall on that rope, it can severely injure you!
Since only about half of the rope was involved in this, you could probably use the other side for the sharp end, and be safe......however, you may not have preserved the orientation, so you don't know. :(
I think I'd retire the rope to top-rope duty.
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Rankin
climber
Bishop, CA
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May 16, 2009 - 08:55pm PT
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Inspect the rope carefully. If it seems fine, climb on it. Big falls don't have to be hard falls. With 120 feet of rope out, 70 feet is not a catastrophic amount of force. Where are the taco physicists anyways? I'd love to see this thread go nerdy, but hey, its the internet, so it'll probably be mostly slander and boring insults.
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hossjulia
Trad climber
Eastside
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May 16, 2009 - 09:20pm PT
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Well, I finally know exactly how to calculate fall factor.
I knew about it, and knew that the more rope that was out, yadda, yadda, yadda.
The mention about the rope stretching permanently to the point it will injure you in a fall though, I never put that one together.
I did retire a rope a few years ago that had never held a leader fall, mostly used for top rope. For about 10 years!
Man, when I inspected it that spring after winter storage, I about wet myself when I realized just how shot it was.
I noticed it was REALLY stiff on one end for many feet, and that the core felt flat. Yikes, I cut it up and it made some great reins. Gave half to horse trainer friend who wanted to pay me for it!
I did snap a climbing rope once. It was about 30 years old and being used as a tow rope to yank someone out of a snowbank. Sucker snapped right in half and almost caused an accident!
(Go ahead locker)
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martygarrison
Trad climber
The Great North these days......
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May 16, 2009 - 10:47pm PT
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sorry, retire. if there is ever a question then the rope is no longer a life line.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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May 17, 2009 - 08:02am PT
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captain crimper. never insinuating that you were intoxicated climbing. Most of the really creative Climbers Math comes from intoxicated POSTING ;) I have been painting houses latly and let me tell you a 32ft extension ladder which is really only 28ft extended is a long TALL SOB!!! but I Know foe a fact that its really only 28ft. Now if I was sking and hucked a cliff that tall I gaurentee you that climbers math would make that cliff at least 60ft ;) falling and runout generaly get that kind of reportage. A buddy of mine (also house painter) who now lives in utah carried a marked 20ft piece of cord up to the ski area to prove to is buddys how full of sh#t they wrer. Most of those 50ft and 70ft hucks were actually 20ft hucks.
Look at a lot of older guide books and the pitch lengths are allmost allways grosly exagerated. We know this now because we combine the 2 140ft pitches with one 198ft rope ;) Those old guys liked to drink a lot arround the campfire when they reported their new routs ;)
There are times when we actually do know exactly ho much rope is out due to the markings on the modern ropes but in general climbers tend to estimate on the long side... Who wants to hear about your 10ft runout when it felt like 20ft out from that mank gear anyways;)
So the question is, was that Climbers math or real math? ;)
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perswig
climber
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May 17, 2009 - 08:29am PT
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'I was Erik's belay when he took the fall.'
'I was taking some video right before he fell (...)'
(Full disclosure: while I'm guilty of being camera-happy, I tend to do it belaying a second, off the anchor, with an ATC-Guide or Reverso.)
Dale
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noshoesnoshirt
climber
dangling off a wind turbine in a town near you
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May 17, 2009 - 10:02am PT
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What could possibly go wrong?
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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May 17, 2009 - 11:07am PT
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Yeah, where are the nerds, or better yet, people who actually know ropes??
This fall doesn't sound even closely comparable to the force of a UIAA test fall. Ropes are designed to take a fall like this and not be toast.
Some fall that doesn't even jerk the belay up to the anchor will not toast the rope unless it shows signs of cutting.
Still, folks who might be scared to climb with me now should know, I make a point of not taking falls like this.
;-)
Karl
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