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Karen
Trad climber
So Cal urban sprawl Hell
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Thanks Wendall.
Ok, I am angry or should I say ANGRY.... lost one of the most loved and important person in my life, angry by the complete and total Fuk up, an accident that should have not happened, and was totally preventable.
No words can console me at this time, and I doubt any will ever console me. It also does not console me to hear, "He died doing what he loved"...no FRINKIN" WAY! No one WANTS to DIE being fuking lowered off a climb!!! Hell no, that isn't "what we love doing" being lowered, come on, nope.
I'm mad, very hurt by the loss of my best friend, combined with how Woody died, he wasn't ready he had many future climbing plans.
i just can't believe it, everytime I think of Woody it doesn't seem real, damn it, it just hurts too badly. Angry-angry-angry-fuming angry....
Karen
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dmalloy
Trad climber
eastside
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EDIT - post removed at what seem to be the wishes of the bereaved
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Karen
Trad climber
So Cal urban sprawl Hell
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dmalloy....I do not have any issue with the reporting of what happened out there that day, I am all for that. In fact, I want all the truth out there, I believe like the rest of you, if it can help prevent another fuk up like this, the facts must be presented.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Karen,
> It also does not console me to hear, "He died doing what he loved"...no FRINKIN" WAY! No one WANTS to DIE being fuking lowered off a climb!!!
I agree. I don't like that "died doing what he loved" sort of response. (Except maybe in some other circumstance, such as if the person was terminal and enjoying what they knew would be their last few days on the planet). I didn't see that response in this thread, but it is in the original one.
It can be grim to read the details and picture yourself in the situation, perhaps hoping to have prevented it. Or somehow wish they had corrected the mistakes made. It will take time for the anger and/or hurt to recede.
I feel that deaths/injuries are the "dark side" of the sport - we spend a lot of time talking about how we enjoy climbing, but the risks are real and we can rip a hole in our families/friends if we do not constantly keep track of the risks. I made a mistake a few years ago and almost killed someone. Fortunately he (barely) saved himself. I've tried to heighten my awareness of risks, but sometimes I am not sure if I am doing a good enough job.
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dmalloy
Trad climber
eastside
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EDIT - post removed at what seem to be the wishes of the bereaved
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MikeL
climber
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People are finally coming to some peace.
Practice some unconditional love, not attached, greedy love of wanting to hold on to what one can no longer have. Pure love is warm, caring, nurturing, and full of equanimity and clarity. Contentment and understanding are ever-present, just on the other side of the tight knot of clinging. Let go, relinquish craving, revulsion, attachment, pity, and sense of hopelessness, and overwhelm.
In time we can try to avoid being taken in by life's events.
Anger is simply an energy before it becomes aggressive. Letting go undoes vicious cycles. Emotions can be wakeful, and they can help one to see very clearly what’s wrong so it can be dealt with.
But that's not what happened here. Seeds of anger sought objects to focus on. Grasping found objects to grasp onto. Egos all around looked for ways to perpetrate themselves--as if to shore up and confirm territories and existences.
Contentment, peace, and quiet are just on the other side of each moment of craving, of holding on to what is actually only fleeting and impermanent. That’s where letting go comes in and takes place.
Be well.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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sorry karen.
wish we could stop the clock.
anger's pretty normal.
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Perhaps there is yet a lesson to be learned here.
How could there be confusion as to which rope was clipped in? Were the ropes of similar color and thus easily confused?
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ghand
Sport climber
Golden,Colorado
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dmalloy, I am a big proponent of #3. It was taught to me many years ago by the late great Howie Doyle. He knew with his size, when he was seconding a pitch, he wanted the rope to go to a high (bombproof piece) and down to the belayer. It then also serves as the first piece for the next lead.
On another note (also long ago), I was following the 2nd pitch of Psychosis in Eldorado. As I approached the belay, my partner had forgotten his belay device and he was very proud to show me he had used a Munter Hitch. Imagine my surprise when I looked at it and he had only twisted the rope around his carabiner a couple of times!
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Karen
Trad climber
So Cal urban sprawl Hell
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The stages of grieving: denial, depression, bargaining, anger then acceptance. Any of which (except acceptance) can range all over the place, in no particular order, I am still in this process. Sometime yes it will pass...but until then, the idea of just letting Woody "pass" from my heart, is just innately dishonorable.
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Outside
Trad climber
Truckee
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I am so sorry for those involved.
Thanks for providing the details, this hits hard for ALL climbers.
Peace and may we all heal with time.
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dmalloy
Trad climber
eastside
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Karen - three years ago tomorrow, my friend Scott passed away in a tragic accident, along with another great man, Walt Rosenthal, who was loved by many who read and post here. The accident that took their lives was truly a freak occurence, there were no lessons to be learned that would help any of us through a part of our lives because it was a unique situation.
This is Scott
Since that time, many of his good friends have delivered or adopted new children. We have attended Mass and held BBQs in his honor. We still talk about how caring he was, how obsessive he was about some things, how much trouble he had finding a love that would fit in with his life, and how happy he was when he was out on skis, making big telemark turns in deep powder.
He has not left, and the sadness is not entirely gone. But much more than sadness, now we have a beautiful friend whose life we celebrate. When I go out skiing, I put his boots on my feet - we had the same size, and had discussed trading right before he passed - and try to ski faster and better, and have more fun, because I know that is how he would have wanted it.
Someday, more than anything else, Woody will be a shining example to you of better ways you can live your life - whether by following, or avoiding, his example. Until that day, nothing will truly make things OK, but the support of family and friends will make things bearable. Keep yourself surrounded by that support, let it hold you up when you feel like falling down.
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tom woods
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Karen, Locker, TGT, I'm really sorry for your loss. This accident has had a big impact on me. If it can happen to Woody (who I only knew by reputation and this forum) it can happen to anybody.
There may be another lesson here, I'm not exactly sure how to word it and Locker, call bullshit if you want to.
But- you know how when you climb with the same people year after year, you get to really trusting them, you relax and you have fun, things don't seem as serious, and sometimes you climb with a person so much, you don't ask what's in the anchor, you don't really talk technical at all anymore.
Maybe the complacency comes from familiarity. I'm not saying this happened here, but I could see it happening with myself and a few of my partners.
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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In the future we should never hound an eye witness for an actual accident report - a detailed and objective breakdown of the technical minutiae.
As someone mentioned, skydiving has a reliable, comprehensive system worked out per accident reporting, and we might learn something by looking at what they do. As is, we have no protocol to deal with accidents, hence the divisive run around we've seen here. It's a shame. I think a lot of good people got turned around on this one.
JL
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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So perhaps there is more than one lesson.
I don't see anything wrong with borrowing from the wisdom of a related discipline.
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Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
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thanks to those involved for the details.
what a tragedy.
i have a slight gripe w/ the description of certain behaviors simply as "complacent".
it seems that we are still left to assume certain things because nobody remembers exactly what happened up there, but this incident reminds me of other accidents which i have read abut concerning parties of 3 (remember some guy falling from a belay on nutcracker a few years back? maybe he was norwegian or something?)
it seems to me that these situations can get confusing because the typical sequence of events is slightly corrupted-
the anchor is being shared, and tasks are often shared.
there is a climber waiting to follow.
there is a climber wanting to be lowered (or getting ready to lead away when the team is ready?)
the belayer is (or may be) changing.
tie-ins may even change.
what is missing is the effort to slow down and clearly communicate about each situation separately-
who is doing what?
who has done what?
what needs to be done?
in what order?
anyway, woody led, al followed.
did they each think the other had tied al in to the anchor?
were they going to bring TGT up by attaching a device to the anchor (in which case al may have not ever tied in), or would al have had to tie in before belaying?
don't get me wrong, I AM NOT ASKING THESE QUESTIONS
it's just my point that communicating clearly about what needs to be done, and who is taking what responsibilities, is critical, and in certain situations, circumstances can make the tasks and the sequence of events less obvious.
as a final point, i also disagree that rappelling is safer than lowering, and my reading of ANAM certainly does not support that conclusion.
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dmalloy
Trad climber
eastside
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EDIT - post removed at what seem to be the wishes of the bereaved
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Upper Fupa, North Dakota
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here's a few where lowering may be better than rap:
Skinny rope. More friction can be figured into the system if you lower them. Maybe their device is worn?
n00b. nuff said.
Unknown length between stations or no stations. That way they can climb back up on belay instead of derigging a rap and then self belaying or establishing a new belay from the leader above.
Icy ropes
Bad anchor/no anchor and leader then walks off
any sort of injury
To clip directionals for a 3rd to follow the route and you have only one rope
In the dark looking for the next station near a rope length out.
(space reserved for more)
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Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
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i think in another thread would be more appropriate(?) and i cannot write i out now as i am about to sack out- if there were a thread (maybe there even has been a thread?) i'd be happy to post up there soon.
i would just say that the act of rappelling seems responsible for a disproportionately high # of incidents if you cruise the ANAM over the years, while lowering seems less so (no that is not a scientific analysis, i agree).
there are ways to make rapping a bit safer, but some are only marginally effective and others are seldom used.
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dmalloy
Trad climber
eastside
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EDIT - post removed at what seem to be the wishes of the bereaved
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