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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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Mar 16, 2009 - 02:24pm PT
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Really sad news.
Juan
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cragnshag
Social climber
san joser
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Mar 16, 2009 - 02:29pm PT
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I've used the Pro-Traxion for years- it replaced my old Rock Exotica Wall Hauler. I've always been leary of the hauling devices and do my best to make sure that the device is properly set up AND not cross-loaded or running over a bump/ obstruction. I have, while soloing, jumarred a static line rigged thru a hauler, but the rope was always tied in short just past the device....
on another note-
I've always imagined hauling a 100# haul bag on a steep wall and the device failing right before the pig reaches the anchor. Then the pig flies 150' straight down with the resultant shock load on the STATIC line ripping the anchor (and me) into the void. Anyone else ever think about this? There were a couple times I tied the haul line in short (past the hauler) when the bag was stuck and I was yarding like hell.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Mar 16, 2009 - 02:40pm PT
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http://en.petzl.com/petzl/ProProduits?Produit=563&Activite=23
PRO TRAXION
Technical specifications
* Breaking strenght when used as pulley only : 11 kN x 2 =22 kN.
* Working load when used as pulley only: 3 kN x 2 = 6 kN.
* Breaking strength when used as selfjamming pulley: 4 kN.
* Working load when used as self-jamming pulley: 2.5 kN.
* For use with ropes from 8 to 13 mm in diameter.
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Mar 16, 2009 - 02:53pm PT
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Cragnshag, the exploding pulley and resultant haul bag fall was what I was referring to in my earlier post when I stated I use a backup sling and biner below the pulley in case the pulley explodes. With a biner thru the top of the pulley and one thru the bottom hole, I don't see how that could happen however. Thats my theory, anyone dispute it?
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Mar 16, 2009 - 02:55pm PT
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Not being a wall guy per se, but I can't imagine any circumstances where I'd be willing to jug directly on a protraxion or any other similar hauling gear.
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Double D
climber
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Mar 16, 2009 - 02:56pm PT
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This was a tradgic event and my thoughts and prayers go out to all family and friends.
Two things I still don't get:
1. Why would anyone ever bring a static line on a wall? There's no back up line incase anything happens to your main line and like previously mentioned if anything goes wrong hauling your load from a static line is immense on your anchors.
2. Why would anyone ever jug a line off of a pulley system?
While I've used pro-traction and mini for toproping solos that's a way different dynamic than what happened here. The slippage of the ascenders w/o a top biner is also a serious heads up in my opinion.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Mar 16, 2009 - 03:02pm PT
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Thanks for posting this. I remember in the previous thread, we were guessing that his ascenders slipped on the rope. Now we see that the rope slipped at the anchor point through the hauling device.
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GhoulweJ
Trad climber
Sacramento, CA
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Mar 16, 2009 - 03:04pm PT
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Very sad news. My condolences to all that are effected by this.
The Pro Traxion is a fine hauling device.
It does need to be used correctly.
Jugging without the rope tied off short??? This time it was a fatal error. I Can't imagine jugging off of only a haul device... Seems abvious to me.
Sad.
Jay Renneberg
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le_bruce
climber
Oakland: what's not to love?
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Mar 16, 2009 - 03:06pm PT
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Obvious point, but one of the takeaways is that if for whatever reason your second/third is going to jug a loaded haul line you've just set up on a pulley, make sure to tie a backup knot immediately above the pulley. I'd guess that 15 ft of slack is something the leader has thought about every day since the accident.
Condolences to all involved.
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Mar 16, 2009 - 03:27pm PT
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What's horrifying about this is that it's one thing to kill yourself by screwing up,
but another thing altogether when someone else dies as a result of your mistake.
Unreal...
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Mr_T
Trad climber
The 7th Pin Scar on Serentiy Crack
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Mar 16, 2009 - 04:17pm PT
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It's surprising that the impact did not blow the belay - this wasn't a dynamic rope, but a static line. Unlike a lead fall, this was essentially a 300lb rock falling ~15' straight down onto the anchor. Without any give in the static line, the notion of a "fall factor" doesn't apply.
If there are bolts at the belay, they're likely fatigued.
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yu-min
climber
San Diego, california
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Mar 16, 2009 - 04:18pm PT
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i had a scary experience with the Pro-Traxion when the 9 mm (within suggested range) we were hauling with slid past the pulley and got jammed between the side plates and the pulley. Dont know how it happened but it bent the side plates a bit and damaged the rope. I took a picture and when to Return Equipment Incorporated (REI) to get a new one, but am still thinking about sending a letter to petzl
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FeelioBabar
climber
Sneaking up behind you...
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Mar 16, 2009 - 04:18pm PT
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"Why would anyone ever bring a static line on a wall?"
Ya ever pull all the slack out of 60M dynamic?
Statics are nice for hauling...but to each their own.
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xtrmecat
Trad climber
Kalispell, Montanagonia
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Mar 16, 2009 - 05:51pm PT
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Mr. T. I was on that anchor a couple weeks ago, and it is fine. Solid as the day the angles were pounded in. There also is a bolt there too if I am remembering right. It is left, just out of the photo.
The hanger on the bolt was not tight, as in perfect, but bomber bolt for sandstone. I hauled off it with the main anchor backing it up. I believe it is also the one I slept off. I am a delicate 255, and that haul hung up a little, so that bolt got tested, not to full on whipper tested, but tested none the less. If I hauled off of it then I was also solo which means I rapped that pitch on it also. I never trust my life to a single anything(rope excepted), so back em up anyhow. It is good to go.
Bob
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno
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Mar 16, 2009 - 05:59pm PT
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Whether or not the pro-traxion is a "fine hauling device" is debatable (in another thread, of course). There are a number of documented cases of it having issues, and virtually exploding under proper use. Some of those here. Do a little digging - there have been threads devoted to it here.
Many people use static lines on the wall. Many people jug the haul line. Usually it is backed up, however, to prevent such severe shock loading.
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Gene
climber
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Mar 16, 2009 - 06:09pm PT
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Not to second guess anyone,
but a simple prusik knot ...............
gm
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Mar 16, 2009 - 06:13pm PT
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How sad. Condolences to the family.
It is not 100% clear to me that the climber was jugging the weighted haul line. One assumes this to be the case since the weight of the pig is mentioned, but are we sure of this?
Here are the problems:
 no carabiner was clipped through the holes to hold the plates together, which was the fundamental error made by the leader
the leader also failed to tie a backup knot just above the Pro-Trax, which you should always do when you have a "live" load
The biggest problem, of course, is that the Pro-Trax is a Piece Of Sh|t. I have been telling you guys this - on this climbing forum and on others - FOR YEARS, yet in spite of my caveats, many of you have wasted money buying this thing.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno
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Mar 16, 2009 - 06:26pm PT
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For what it's worth - the mountain shop in Yos now sells Kong Block Rolls.
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Gene
climber
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Mar 16, 2009 - 06:32pm PT
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Kong Block Rolls - would you rap off one with your jug/haul line held by its cam? If knott, why is this better than a backed up pulley and an inverted ascender. Does the Kong Block Roll offer something I'm missing? I’m looking for simplicity since I am a doddering old fool with a short memory.
gm
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WanderlustMD
Trad climber
DC Area (it's as bad as you've heard)
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Mar 16, 2009 - 06:37pm PT
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Horrible. Unfortunately, it appears to be pilot error. Everyone be careful out there.
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