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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Jan 11, 2018 - 09:36pm PT
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I'm afraid to say that no amount of money or realignment of the education system is going to fix anything, as long as parents don't teach their kids good school habits and values at an early age. Most parents are not doing that anymore.
Young children are being left to lead independent lives without supervision, and they are not developing the life skills and discipline that are necessary to succeed in any learning environment, whether it be vocational or academic.
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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Jan 11, 2018 - 09:45pm PT
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One area where I can sympathize with K-12 teachers is discipline. No doubt it's frustrating having hands tied when disruptive kids are ruining all their efforts to educate the rest.
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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Jan 11, 2018 - 09:49pm PT
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Why is it that "snowflake" has been stolen by "conservative"/right-wing/etc. people and turned into a bad thing? I think the idea that each person is as beautiful and unique as a snowflake is wonderful. It is a poetic expression that gives dignity to humans, and gives a useful metaphor for a way to find personal value as an individual that harmoniously exists in society.
How very California.
Language and symbolism are malleable. Like when "gay" meant happy.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jan 11, 2018 - 10:27pm PT
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. . . using data from the U.S. Department of Education’s Office for Civil Rights, a Fordham Institute study released in September demonstrates the full extent of the absentee problem. On average, teachers miss about eight school days a year due to sick and personal leave, while the average U.S. worker takes only about three and a half sick days per annum. Worse, the study shows that 28.3 percent of teachers in traditional public schools are chronically absent—defined as missing more than 10 days of school per year because of illness or personal reasons.
This statement gives a very erroneous impression.
Those who work in the field know that children are illness factories. My first few years of doing pediatrics, I was sick ALL the time with various cold viruses. It's another cost of being a teacher, NOT as is suggested, a overuse of benefits.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jan 11, 2018 - 10:29pm PT
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It's also easy to forget another aspect of teaching kids: protecting them.
You only have to read the accounts of student shootings, to hear of episode after episode of teachers blocking bullets with their bodies to save kids.
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Jan 13, 2018 - 12:12am PT
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But so long as we keep making the 'cheaper is better' decision at every point along the way of school funding, we are always going to have the cheapest assed schools around. Duh.
Well said
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jan 13, 2018 - 08:59am PT
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I'm afraid to say that no amount of money or realignment of the education system is going to fix anything, as long as parents don't teach their kids good school habits and values at an early age. Most parents are not doing that anymore.
Young children are being left to lead independent lives without supervision, and they are not developing the life skills and discipline that are necessary to succeed in any learning environment, whether it be vocational or academic.
I think SLR’s post deserves reiterating. Our society has devolved to where everything is
somebody else’s fault.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jan 13, 2018 - 12:30pm PT
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Do you mean that his post is deflecting responsibility from teachers to parents?
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Jan 13, 2018 - 06:12pm PT
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Do you mean that his post is deflecting responsibility from teachers to parents? That is exactly what I am doing.
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chainsaw
Trad climber
CA
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Jan 17, 2018 - 12:39am PT
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Well I lost track of this thread. I hope Kingtut is reading. Dude, I was a professional scientist in the Davis Crown Gall Group and went on to teach science. My student reviews speak for themselves. I got eighteen consecutive reappointments. I was a botany and chemistry professor. I was a climbing guide and gym employee and eventually my student athletes won national championships. I taught ninth grade English and Ive published numerous times in the media. I played professionally in several bands and I teach music. I got my start in the climbing world as a tree surgeon. Then I went on to teach about 4000 climbing lessons and had up to forty four kids on my climbing team which was sponsored. We attended twelve National Championships. I was a professional microbiologist for six years, then I taught microbiology at UCDavis for about seven years while completing my Doctoral Thesis. But according to you Im uneducated and dont know anything about teaching because I come from the Professions that I teach. Well I got an emergency credential but that didnt stop me from teaching entire semesters of A/P chemistry, Art, Leadership, US History, sixth grade multiple subject, Ninth Grade English and Economics as well as special ed for severe Autism spectrum disabled K-3. I have completed master teaching with reviews and extensive collaboration and professional development. I have been trained in the most modern teaching methods. According to you Im uneducated and ignorant? Perhaps you may reconsider insulting me with presumptuous, capricious belittling comments. I walk my talk when it comes to teaching the crafts I have practiced professionally.
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chainsaw
Trad climber
CA
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Jan 17, 2018 - 01:06am PT
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Consider Olympic coaches, many medalists. Julliard and Berkely school of music, Professional musicians. Harvard Lawschool, experienced lawyers and judges. UCDavis medical school, practicing physicians. Gracey academy of Brazillian Jiujitsu, Hoyce Gracey. American Conservatory Theater, Real entertainers and movie makers. Western Ballet Theater, professional dancers. MMA, The California Kid. Mine Safety and Health Administration, mining engineers and geologists. U.S. Airforce, experienced pilots. Special Forces, combat professionals. Emergency Medical Services, veteren EMTs and physicians. Cosmetology schools, real barbours. In fields where real achievement is mandatory for success, you will always find professionals who practiced their craft. In public highschools, you will find recent college graduates and career educators with little or no professional experience. But hey, I guess in our current culture, real achievement and competencey are not required to get a trophy in schools anymore. Its no wonder our hightech sector is outsourcing or importing talent from elsewhere.
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chainsaw
Trad climber
CA
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Jan 17, 2018 - 01:52am PT
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Well Kingtut, after backtracking and reading your post about the "preeminence" of the UC system, I see you actually support my assertion that professionals are necessary for a good education system. The King School of Law is directed by experienced lawyers and Judges. The Medical School is taught by practicing physicians like my father (OBGYN Oncology, surgical residency). The Vet School has one of the worlds most prominent animal clinics staffed by Vet Doctors. The Biological Sciences are taught by professional researchers. My chemistry professors were chemical engineers for Unocal and Lawrence Livermore Labs. My favorite Economics professor was a world famous Harvard economist who worked in international relations. The Land Air Water Resources division where I studied graduate level soil science does highway construction engineering for Caltrans. The Plant Pathology Dept is the host dept for the USDA and administrates the international germplasm storage facility. I myself am faculty emeritus at UCDavis. So how does it feel to get called out on your statements? I hope you are not spewing racist, anarchist dribble to any of my students. They are Doctors and professors now. And as for your comments about my right wing regurgitation, I was logistics director for Whole Earth Festival for two years, Karma patroller for twenty. I was even "Den Mom." Just because I have reiterated some things that the right has said doesnt mean Im racist or ignorant. Perhaps some of the things they say are true.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jan 17, 2018 - 07:57am PT
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chainsaw, I guarantee you won’t see a mea culpa, let alone an apology from The Special One.
If I’m wrong I guarantee you and he will see one.
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gruzzy
Social climber
socal
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Jan 18, 2018 - 01:17pm PT
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Someone is PISSED
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Jan 18, 2018 - 05:31pm PT
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In the USA, money is God, and the value of most anything is in the money it generates. Public school and mental health are two categories that are vastly underfunded, relative to, say, military spending, because they COST money to run so the cheaper-is-better path is most always taken. Police and fire have better unions and since risk is attached to both professions, they are well funded - or else. And a lot of powerful folks make bank of military spending - in the name of keeping us safe. But in the name of keeping us smart, the dough is lacking.
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Zclipper69
Trad climber
mill valley
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To me it seems you all have a point in some regard or manner. All posts struck me as being backed by observable fact and are touching on meaningful issues.
From my experience in public schools, the majority of teachers have been well intentioned, often knowledgable people. However, like most restaurants, their economic model is based on serving hungry people. In the case of teachers, this means they get paid (their livelihood) depends on relaying a script to students who have no choice but to attend. Thus, like the restaurants, the teachers have a market which is locked in and bound to make sales.For teachers, breaking from the script is not encouraged. Instead they are rewarded for the good grades of their students.
Anyways, I'm just thinking while teachers may be able to and do help inspire their pupils and encourage them to learn, the prevailing paradigm does not encourage teachers to do more than read from a closely written script.
The whole issue of teaching not being a career of high social cache and teachers not being paid "enough" is also formidable and worth a great deal of thought.
Peace,
Zclipper69
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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I haven't read all of this thread, so I'm probably stepping in where I shouldn't, but my wife works in administration in a school district in Washington State. The stories I hear about the entitled teachers attitudes are unbelievable. The perks they get, the paid days off, the short work year, the retirement, and the bitching are amazing.
I tutored one of my wife's grandchildren for 6th grade math and was just blown away about how they are teaching this subject, and the lack of teaching skills exhibited.
The students no linger have math textbooks; they get handouts for the subjects. The stupid ways they are teaching students to do simple things like multiplication are just .... stupid. The students no longer learn that 9 X 9 = 81 so they don't even have to think about it; there is some convoluted 'estimation' bullshit they go through then narrow the answer down with some mnemonic system..... I was incredulous. The word problems the students were given were basically undecipherable; I had to go through this poor kids stuff, figure out what the point was, then translate back to her so she could solve the 'problem'.
It reminded me of how BITD we were exposed to set theory in the 7th grade. I had been in New Zealand and returned in the middle of the term and was dumped into the math class. Sure, I figured it out, but I told myself at the time it was stupid and I was right.
The teachers don't even know what they're teaching and a lot of them are plain useless. One of the math teachers can't speak very good English and is very soft spoken; so much so that the students can't understand what he is trying to convey. He's not dumb, he's just a very poor teacher. But there he is, handicapping these students. No wonder none of them are interested in maths.
There sure is a lot of poor teaching going on. There are good ones, but they are few and far between. And take away students' phones and laptops.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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It reminded me of how BITD we were exposed to set theory in the 7th grade...I told myself at the time it was stupid and I was right.
Hmmm...set theory is one of the foundational topics of mathematics, a part of mathematical reasoning and communication around the world, as well as an ongoing source of research problems.
I was fortunate enough to be introduced to set theory in the seventh grade in the US. It was at the time of the Sputnik "crisis" and suddenly the country thought investing in math and science was not simply a good idea, but an essential step in catching up to the Russians in the "space race." In the place of the mind-numbing arithmetical manipulations with no meaning and no interconnections typical of middle school math, we were given a basis for understanding what we were doing, a basis that could grow from a backyard garden to a mighty forest as one progressed in knowledge.
In part because of that set theory, I and a whole generation of scientists, mathematicians, and engineers found useful, productive, and fulfilling careers in subjects that made ever deeper and more profound sense, partially because they were based on conceptual principles rather than rote memorization.
So there you have it, a somewhat different perspective on what constitutes seventh-grade stupidity, and perhaps also a reflection on what it may or may not mean to be "right."
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