Are we hiring the wrong teachers -or paying them too little?

Search
Go

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
Messages 1 - 20 of total 244 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
rockermike

Mountain climber
Topic Author's Original Post - Feb 12, 2009 - 01:12am PT
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29143460/?gt1=43001
AllezAllez510

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
Feb 12, 2009 - 01:18am PT
Or is this an isolated case of....fill in the blank. Remember not all investment bankers are greedy crooked scumbags either.
Lynne Leichtfuss

Social climber
valley center, ca
Feb 12, 2009 - 01:21am PT
Private Schools Rock !!
Jaybro

Social climber
wuz real!
Feb 12, 2009 - 01:24am PT
Some private school rock, hard! But do note that like home schooling, they are not held to the same standards as public schools!


Russ Walling

Social climber
Upper Fupa, North Dakota
Feb 12, 2009 - 01:25am PT
Since when did public schools have standards?
Chaz

Trad climber
Boss Angeles
Feb 12, 2009 - 01:41am PT
Kids gotta wanna learn.

Teachers need the authority to 86 the kids what don't.

Lynne Leichtfuss

Social climber
valley center, ca
Feb 12, 2009 - 01:42am PT
AA5.10 "not all investment bankers are...."

Really, I dunno, think mayhap they are....jess sayin'.
Todd Gordon

Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
Feb 12, 2009 - 01:45am PT
Pay the teachers more......and teachers are just like anyone else;...human....How about dinner and a movie for sex;......happens in every town in America on a Friday night....
Lynne Leichtfuss

Social climber
valley center, ca
Feb 12, 2009 - 01:46am PT
Chaz, "Kids gotta want to learn."

Well, I got mostly A's with a few B's but it wasn't cause I was a dedicated little kid. I knew this kiddo betta not come home with bad grades or poor conduct marks....or else.

My parents only spanked me twice in my life....not about grades either. But I respected their ...... and I knew I betta not let them down. Jess Sayin' : D

PS, Teachers should not have to "86" kids. Parents need to do their job.
Chaz

Trad climber
Boss Angeles
Feb 12, 2009 - 01:47am PT
Lynne,

I wanted to learn AND I got 86'd.

Lynne Leichtfuss

Social climber
valley center, ca
Feb 12, 2009 - 01:49am PT
Chaz, you must email me. How could this happen ? Or better, put it here on the ST so we can all figure out how these kinds of things happen. Feel for yo Bro ! Lynne
Russ Walling

Social climber
Upper Fupa, North Dakota
Feb 12, 2009 - 01:50am PT
Gordo..... seriously.... you Cali teachers are VASTLY overpaid.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Feb 12, 2009 - 01:51am PT
To the thread title; something of both, but exclusively.
Tami

Social climber
Vancouver, Canada
Feb 12, 2009 - 01:59am PT
Certainly here in Canada the problem is not simple:
 class sizes too large
 Learning Assitance Centres ( LAC ) provided too little ability to help those who need it.
 English as a 2nd Language ( ESL ) kids who's problems with learning English appear the same as the children with undiagnosed learning disabilities (LD ).
 too few diagnosticians helping teachers to understand who are the LD kids and who are the ESL kids.
 inequities in the school systems with respect to PAC's. Schools in wealthier areas with highly active PACs raise more money then schools in "poorer" areas with less involved PACs.

Both my kids experienced learning issues in elementary school ( my son is now out of school and my daughter is in her senior yr at hi school ) . I give massive credit to their teachers for the work they did for my kids . The teachers were WONDERFUL. I did have to keep in close contact with them, however, to advocate for LAC time for my daughter and also for them to understand my son's ADHD. He had his own personal chair in the Principal's office. Now ? He's an elite athlete.......

If a kid is having trouble at school - the parents ( at LEAST ONE of them - PREFERABLY BOTH ! ) need to get more involved in the child's education. There is only so much ANY school can do. It's a "one size fits most" education system.......and the private schools are no better off imho.

Cheers, Tami
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Feb 12, 2009 - 02:03am PT
Before I read the link, I deluded myself into thinking that MSNBC had seen the light. My daughter is currently enrolled in the credential program at Fresno State. Her textbook had, early on, a graph of teachers' salaries relative to those of doctors, lawyers, accountants, etc. The point was not so much that teachers are underpaid, as it was that one should not go into teaching for the money. Fair enough.

I've often felt, though, that we should pay teachers much more (say $100,000 a year) and quit trying to pare class sizes down so small. I think you may get a different type of person interested in teaching, namely ones for whom the opportunity cost becomes less.

My daughter has her undergraduate degree in math. She had much more lucrative offers than teaching. The same isn't necessarily true, though, for an English or history major. If you paid teachers a premium, you might end up raising the prestige of the profession enough that parents might even stop thinking that their kids are right and the teacher is wrong (yes, I know I'm dreaming).

Of course, this only works if new and better teachers can oust less competent ones, so I give it about as much chance as I have a freeing the Nose but, hey, it's worth a try.

John
Delhi Dog

Trad climber
Good Question...
Feb 12, 2009 - 02:30am PT
...and the merry-go-round continues...

"Since when did public schools have standards? "

Uh, for awhile now...doesn't mean though that they are quality nor being applied.

Truth is many school both public and private suck, but the majority continue to have an extremely difficult job and do the best they can given the circumstances.

Russ you got kids?

What is the parents'job and responsibilities?
What are the school's job and responsibilities?
What is an individual's job and responsibilities?
What is society's job and responsibilities?

When schools/teachers/administrations are expected to do more than their jobs and then fail in some way because of a list of variables, so often the "schools'" are blamed.

How about spreading that responsibility around?

It's so easy to whine and complain (not saying your whining Russ) as so many people do, but we all have responsibilities towards educating our youngster. To "blame" it on the schools without recognizing all the variables I think is a major disservice to everyone.

Just saying...

Teachers are people too. So this lady #ucked up. Interesting that the admin. mentions she had not had any disciplne issues and was a "very good teacher".
Maybe she was, maybe the admin. dude sucks at his job.
Maybe she just likes having guys pay her for sex...

We've had many threads about the state of our schools...
wonder if they (schools) are on the list of "change" that is "coming."

Cheers,
DD

edit:
You get what you pay for- usually (though in the case of some of these exec. in the banking/loan buisness you have to wonder...

I have usually found in my capacity as a teacher that if everyone is involved and doing their job (and actually caring) than great things happen.
Lynne Leichtfuss

Social climber
valley center, ca
Feb 12, 2009 - 02:38am PT
An education is a privilege.

Aside: Why do some of you peeps attack russ and others? I personally love his/their wit and humor on the taco. If you go for the jugular yo gonna kill the fun posters on the ST.

Say, go after me if you need a target. It will be a new form of entertainment and I can focus less on trying to cope on my scary and insane life. Lynnie
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Feb 12, 2009 - 02:57am PT
I have a high school teaching credential. When I did 7 months of student teaching in Oakhurst, I was astounded at the quality of people teaching kids. Truly fine people who weren't in it for the money.

It would be great if teachers were paid more but the unwelcome side effect would be that people WOULD start doing it for the money.

Any school that has the prestige and resources to skip the cream of the crop students is going to do great.

The larger problem is our culture. We don't value education and kids think that they don't need or benefit from learning (unless their parents are special and clue them in somehow)

It's a culture problem. We're decadent and will suffer for it.

There is hope though. I know some younger generation kids that sure shine. Just wish there were more of them

PEace

Karl
Russ Walling

Social climber
Upper Fupa, North Dakota
Feb 12, 2009 - 03:44am PT
So DD:
If we get what we pay for, shouldn't we have the best schools in the USA here in California? And the best teachers?
California leads the Nation in teacher salaries, yet is 34th ( and as low as 46th on some charts for reading and math) out of all States in SAT scores. Obviously, we are not getting what we are paying for.
Delhi Dog

Trad climber
Good Question...
Feb 12, 2009 - 04:46am PT
"If we get what we pay for, shouldn't we have the best schools in the USA here in California? And the best teachers?

California leads the Nation in teacher salaries, yet is 34th (on some charts) out of all States in SAT scores. Obviously, we are not getting what we are paying for."

Good questions Russ.
On the surface you'd think so wouldn't you.

I remember moving to CA in '77 after I graduated because it had cheaper ed. and was quality...

I do not pretend to know all the answers, but I think the following are contributors...

The problem about cost is fairly subjective IMHO (regarding salaries). And, "pay" in my use does not ONLY include salaries-so if I was not clear I'm sorry... but...

Money is a funny thing...
What state has the highest cost of living (I don't know but I'll bet CA is right up there).
What state has the largest Pop. (per-cap. I don't know but I'll bet CA is up there).
Which state has the highest ESL pop. my guess...CA

I think Karl is on to something when he says our priorities just aren't in the right place (paraphrasing).

Salaries are not the only factor though. More money does not solve the problem, just as a fine rack doesn't make the climber.

If all else were equal, then maybe we could narrow it down to that, but it isn't.

When you pay for a professional to do a job which they are trained for, then create barriers which keep them from doing the job they are trained for, success is going to be limited.
I really don't want to get into all the NCLB (no child left behind) issues, but to make a point that is one variable, along with the couple I mention above.

And, you can't make someone learn, that has to come from within. Learning needs to be valued by the individual and society as a whole. The gang bangers and others that have to be in the same classroom with them have a real challenge in this regard (for an example),as does those students' teacher- no matter what they are paid.

One final thought, I think many many teachers would rather have students with loving, nurturing, caring parents and belong to communities that are supportive and recognize the intrinsic value of children, have less students to teach on a daily basis, are thought of and treated as professional, and valued as such than to have a higher pay check...

Cheers,
DD


Messages 1 - 20 of total 244 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
 
Our Guidebooks
Check 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks


Try a free sample topo!

 
SuperTopo on the Web

Recent Trip Report and Articles
Recent Route Beta
Recent Gear Reviews