what's wrong with Scientology?

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Lovegasoline

Trad climber
Brooklyn, NY
Mar 12, 2015 - 06:07pm PT
The Guardian's Office scandal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue_Hubbard

On July 8, 1977, 134 agents of the Federal Bureau of Investigation simultaneously stormed the Church of Scientology's offices in Washington, D.C. and Los Angeles, seizing nearly 50,000 documents and other evidence.[40] The raids were in response to the federal government's discovery that the Church of Scientology had been carrying out a secret and highly illegal "dirty tricks" campaign against government agencies, individuals, and institutions deemed to be enemies of Scientology. A year later, on August 15, 1978, Mary Sue Hubbard was indicted by a grand jury, accused of masterminding a conspiracy against the government in her capacity as head of the Church's Guardian's Office.[41]

Mary Sue was appointed by her husband as Guardian (later Controller) of the Guardian's Office (GO) in March 1966.[42] Established in response to the battering that Scientology was receiving at the time from governments and the media, the GO was tasked with tackling any "threat of great importance" to Scientology. This work took a variety of forms, including public relations, legal actions, and the gathering of "intelligence" on perceived enemies. In the UK alone, it issued hundreds of writs against the media for publishing negative reports on Scientology. It carried out an international campaign against psychiatry, Interpol, the US Internal Revenue Service (IRS) and various other government agencies.[43] Its eventual downfall was to result from the use of illegal methods, ordered and authorized by Mary Sue, to further its campaign.

Mary Sue was promoted to the position of Controller "for life" of the Guardian's Office in January 1969, with one of her subordinates, Jane Kember, being appointed to Mary Sue's old post of Guardian.[44] Mary Sue continued to manage the GO from her various abodes aboard the Apollo and, later, the villa in Tangier. At the order of both of the Hubbards, the GO ran scores of often illegal operations against Scientology's enemies. The targets were not just external enemies but dissident Scientologists; in 1969, Mary Sue wrote an order directing the GO to cull information from the confessional folders of Scientologists, breaking a rule of confidence that was supposedly sacrosanct.[45] L. Ron Hubbard was said to have been fully aware of the GO's actions; the US government would later declare him to be an "unindicted co-conspirator" in the GO's illegal activities.[46]

One of their primary targets was the IRS, with which Scientology was engaged in a bitter battle over tax exemptions. As part of a wider strategy codenamed Operation Snow White, the GO succeeded in infiltrating a Scientologist into the IRS to steal files about the government's litigation strategy against Scientology.[47] Mary Sue was closely involved in the strategy; a letter written by her, approving the thefts, was later used in evidence against her.[48] In March 1976, she approved an illegal plan to obtain "non-FOI data" from the government, meaning classified documents not available through the Freedom of Information Act.[49] The GO's agent in the IRS, Michael Meisner, was ordered to obtain all files concerning L. Ron and Mary Sue Hubbard from the IRS Office of International Operations, which he succeeded in infiltrating.[49]

The espionage continued for another three months before Meisner's luck ran out and he was caught in June 1976. Although he bluffed it out initially, a warrant was issued for his arrest in August. The situation was potentially disastrous for the GO and caused panic among the leadership. Mary Sue conspired with her subordinates to concoct alibis for Meisner and work out how to keep him out of the hands of the authorities, keeping him in hiding under a series of false identities.[50] Meisner became increasingly reluctant to cooperate with his GO handlers and in April 1977 he was forcibly taken by GO staff to a new hiding place. He succeeded in escaping in May and turned himself in to the FBI, making a full confession. The raids of July 1977 were the result.[51]

The case eventually came to trial in September 1979, following months of delay occasioned by a fierce rear-guard action by the Church of Scientology's lawyers. On October 8, a deal was struck between the government and the Church that the nine defendants including Mary Sue would each plead guilty to one charge of conspiracy if they agreed to sign a written stipulation by the government (essentially a public confession) of what they had done, thus avoiding a lengthy trial. They were formally found guilty on October 26, 1979. Mary Sue and two others received the heaviest penalties, a five-year prison sentence and a $10,000 fine. The other five defendants received lesser sentences and fines.[52] Her husband avoided being indicted but was extremely concerned that Mary Sue would betray him.

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This sort of behaviour is the product of Delusion/Confusion, Greed, Aversion/Hatred. The sanction for such behaviour reflects very poorly on the institution and it's values. That isn't to say that individuals cannot derive spiritual benefits from Scientology, and the light can shine through even the dirtiest glass.
But one needs to be extremely careful when associating with psychopaths and morally defective individuals. The difficulty is that it may not always be apparent who is who. Psychopaths can be charming, intelligent, and beautiful. People risk being turned into programmed puppets, sexually or financially abused, they can lose their jobs, family, or sanity, and risk disillusionment from pursuing any spiritual quest.
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Mar 13, 2015 - 07:50am PT
Largo used the term "going clear"or getting clear, in the most recent post to What is mind; here :
- Mar 12, 2015 - 10:06pm PT, post #4824
Tvash, you come up with some remarkable claims. Who married "spiritualism" with a non-local watcher? I have no idea even what spiritualism is? Is there a spirit involved? Who's spirit? Does it speak "the English?" What does it tell you?

What's more, memory is required for for the mind to register things and events and to formulate a history that our discursive minds can reflect on as say, "This is 'my' experience. This is happening to 'me.'"

What do you suspect happens when - as PSP has been pointing out - you let go of "you," and reflecting on the past, and even abandon experience of all things and stuff and thoughts and perspectives? You are insisting that the mind simply MUST work this way and only this way, according to your absolutes - in this case, "all" and "must" betrays your hand.

The mudra, a certain way of holding your hands in your lap that has been around since about 200 BC, is a sure way to shift your attention from being fused to memory,
and to start getting clear.


JL

lovegasoline,this goes for any and IMHO, all the 'churches'. . .
,

This sort of behaviour is the product of Delusion/Confusion, Greed, Aversion/Hatred. The sanction for such behaviour reflects very poorly on the institution and it's values. That isn't to say that individuals cannot derive spiritual benefits from Scientology, and the light can shine through even the dirtiest glass.
But one needs to be extremely careful when associating with psychopaths and morally defective individuals. The difficulty is that it may not always be apparent who is who. Psychopaths can be charming, intelligent, and beautiful. People risk being turned into programmed puppets, sexually or financially abused, they can lose their jobs, family, or sanity, and risk disillusionment from pursuing any spiritual quest.
Spider Savage

Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
Mar 13, 2015 - 08:08am PT
it made me curious to try to gain some slight familiarity with Scientology

If you want to find out about something, look at it directly. Not through the eyes of haters.


To reiterate, I've been on the inside of this group for 35 years and have enjoyed a much better life as result.

I'm not a follower, I helped, along with thousands of others, to build it. It is not a secret cult. The doors of every Church and group are wide open.

You'll not find the truth in the media because there is no story. Money for the media only comes from generating false controversy by singling out people that might be different and making them look like a freak show.



dirtbag

climber
Apr 3, 2015 - 07:54am PT
Bullsh#t.

So I watched the documentary last night and the stories of abuse are absolutey horrifying.

But even if you put blinders on and say all the former members in the program--all former higher ups, btw--are malcontents and liars, the documentary includes videos of former members being harassed by the "church." You can see it right there in the footage. What mainstream church harasses its critics like that?

Scientology has serious problems.
dirtbag

climber
Apr 3, 2015 - 07:58am PT
And btw, the church and some of its members were offered opportunities to respond and participate in the film. They chose not to. Smearing people is more their style.
WBraun

climber
Apr 3, 2015 - 08:03am PT
Church?????

That thing is called a church?

Those Scientology criminals even publicly said it's a business.

It's a criminal business run under the flag and cloth of so called religion by a group of nutcase mafia style sh!theads.

Stooopid loons fall for these bullsh!t artists ....
T Hocking

Trad climber
Redding, Ca
Apr 3, 2015 - 08:11am PT
^^^
+1

I'm in agreement with the smoking duck.

dirtbag

climber
Apr 3, 2015 - 08:21am PT
Good catch, Werner. I put deliberately put "church" in parentheses the first time I should have done it in the second post too.
moosedrool

climber
Andrzej Citkowicz far away from Poland
Apr 3, 2015 - 08:27am PT
It is hypocritical when a religious person is making fun of other religions.

Moose
WBraun

climber
Apr 3, 2015 - 08:36am PT
Moose watch the HBO documentary going clear.

Even their head honchos who ran this criminal enterprise for Miscavige and were able to defect this bullsh!t outfit will tell you the same.

These guys were Miscavige's top thugs and loons until they woke up and realized what they were really doing.

If you actually believe this is a bonafide religious group then you are in the same boat the Scientology devotees have fallen for .....
moosedrool

climber
Andrzej Citkowicz far away from Poland
Apr 3, 2015 - 08:44am PT
Sure, Werner. Vatican is scheming people for 2000 years, but that's OK. Christians are holly!

Moose
WBraun

climber
Apr 3, 2015 - 08:53am PT
but that's OK. Christians are holly!

You said it not me.

I didn't say it's OK

YOU DID

T Hocking

Trad climber
Redding, Ca
Apr 3, 2015 - 08:54am PT
Moose watch the HBO documentary going clear.

Yeah Moose give it a look,
I saw it a few nights ago and recommend it as well.

Miscavige and his officers are criminals running a business under the guise of religion.
When will he poison the Kool-Aid?

dirtbag

climber
Apr 3, 2015 - 08:54am PT
Moose, at most I'm an agnostic so I don't have any allegiance to any organized religion. You really cannot compare the modern Catholic Church to the money mind f*#k organization Scientology.

Does the Catholic Church tell its members to shun apostate family members? Does it harass former members? Punish members by isolating them for years while making them perform menial labor in horrible conditions for pennies an hour?

What would happen if you attended mass for years, then decided Catholicism wasn't for you and left? You might get a phone call from a few concerned members, but would you be harassed? Would you be deemed "suppressive" and isolated from family and friends who were still members?
locker

climber
STFU n00b!!!
Apr 3, 2015 - 09:01am PT


"what's wrong with Scientology?"...


FACT!!!...



It is a BULLSH!T SCAM!!!...

Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Apr 3, 2015 - 09:08am PT
Just another religion led by a paranoid psychotic egomaniac.
These people can't help themselves, they rise to the top and will do anything to get what they want.

It just shows how easily people can be convinced of anything if you put the right labels on it.

All you have to do is promise riches and the secret to a better life now, or in the after life.

They're all suckers.
Every Religion consists mostly of suckers, that's the scam,
get a bunch of suckers to give you money and power for a promise that can never be fulfilled.

I've watched about half the money so far.
L. Ron Hubbard is one scary dude, you can see him lying through his teeth without hesitation.
moosedrool

climber
Andrzej Citkowicz far away from Poland
Apr 3, 2015 - 09:10am PT
Dirtbag, moderm Catholic Church evolved under pressure. 500 years ago was much worst than Scientology.

Why people fall for that crap? I feel sorry for them.

Moose
WBraun

climber
Apr 3, 2015 - 09:13am PT
Mr Drool.

This thread is about Scientology.

You want to get into The Catholic Church then you need a new Topic.

Focus on the topic.

Your mind wanders all over the place .....
locker

climber
STFU n00b!!!
Apr 3, 2015 - 09:14am PT


"500 years ago"...



It's 2015...

Things have changes a little...

Not enough however...

dirtbag

climber
Apr 3, 2015 - 09:22am PT
It's more like the mafia.
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