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Lost Arrow
Trad climber
The North Ridge of the San Fernando
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Aug 14, 2008 - 12:00am PT
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I used red heads for the belay of Insomnia 20 years ago when I could flash the route that my friends later wanted to top rope.
Also added a bolt to the route that need a handstand, but it was later chopped.
Juan
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Aug 14, 2008 - 01:15am PT
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"few cents"
bruce not true anymore
"There is no good reason to use carbon steel"
Juan M, you are wrong.
"carbon steel will accept higher torque values"
consequently if you don't carry a torque wrench the probability of over torq goes down, thereby raising the safety margin using crabon steel.
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Juan Maderita
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Aug 14, 2008 - 01:32am PT
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Mungeclimber,
You are so right. My assumption is that installer will have at least half of a brain. We should probably assume that the installer will ignore the manufacturer's specs and the numerous internet forum warnings regarding proper torque.
On a side note, I consider every Powers (Rawl) 3/8" "5-piece" to be suspect. Few were properly installed, and fewer still with a torque wrench. Compound that with erroneous specs (way to high) which went uncorrected for years by the manufacturer. Bolts sometimes broke upon installation with a torque wrench. I complained and argued with them. They never admitted to a mistake, but finally lowered the torque spec to the appropriate number.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Aug 14, 2008 - 01:45am PT
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Bear in mind that stressed or tortured metal at the hanger loading point in not a great idea. The process of forming the threads, even on stainless, stresses the metal in a twist shear mode that may lead to performance problems under repetative loading. Thunderstud type collar bolts and other threaded studs like the Redhead need to be at least 1/2" in my opinion to mitigate these considerations.
Stainless steel bolts and hangers are the only lasting option so don't place mild steel anchors.
The Powers 3/8" is actually only a 5/16" bolt diameter and way too dainty to be at all lasting or foolproof at point of installation. I bought a box for on stance placement and don't use them otherwise. Too little strength margin IMO.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Aug 14, 2008 - 01:54am PT
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"that the installer will ignore the manufacturer's specs and the numerous internet forum warnings regarding proper torque."
you got it bro.
:)
user-proof, even tho it ain't.
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couchmaster
climber
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Aug 14, 2008 - 11:02am PT
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Use stainless. ONLY.
You guys should be posting where you can get them for a buck. Kevin? Links? The price has about doubled in the last year, so anyone sitting on old inventory may have it priced below their costs.
Links?
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Juan Maderita
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Aug 14, 2008 - 02:27pm PT
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How does $0.86 sound to you?
I purchase at Toolup.com in San Diego. You can order online at www.toolup.com
$0.86 for 3/8" x 2-3/4" in 304 SS (part # WW-3826)
http://www.toolup.com/find/displaysearch1.asp?description=trubolt&x=17&y=12
I am surprised after pulling out an old receipt and comparing prices. Eight years ago, the unit price on a WW-3836 (3-3/4")was $1.15. Currently the unit price is $0.96
I didn't see the Trubolt in 316 SS listed on their website, though I'm fairly sure you can order them.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Aug 25, 2009 - 05:12pm PT
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We should have all stocked up on stainless back then. Juan's discount link today, about a year later.
ITW RAMSET RED HEAD
WW-3826 Trubolt Stainless Steel Anchor 304 3/8 X 2-3/4" $1.79/ea
itw ramset red head
WW-3830 Trubolt Syle 304 Stainless Steel Anchor 3/8 X 3 $1.99/ea
itw ramset red head
WW-3850 Trubolt Type 304 Stainless Steel 3/8 X 5 $2.39/ea
itw ramset red head WW-1236
Trubolt Style 304 Stainless Steel Anchor 1/2 X 3-3/4 $2.99/ea
itw ramset red head WW 1254
Trubolt Style 304 Stainless Steel Anchor 1/2 X 5 1/2 $4.59/ea
itw ramset red head
WW-1270 Trubolt Style 304 Stainless Steal Anchor 1/2 X 7 $4.99/ea
1/2 x 6-1/4 SS Wedge anchor
Soft rock no cracks.
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Aug 26, 2009 - 02:39am PT
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Thunderstuds are the way to go. 304ss 3'8X2.25 $1.10 per bolt at CONFAST.COM.
Couch, that rock looks like an expansion bolt would be more appropriate, looks very similar to pinnacles rock. 3/8 X 3 or longer has always done the trick, SS for sure in the conglom. Powers 5 piece gets a bad rap for the cone falling off but before heading up from the ground add a little superglue to the tip, works great.
Enough about bolts, what about some deals on some hangers?
$3 buck a pop sucks.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Aug 26, 2009 - 02:49am PT
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Couchmaster nails it - Stainless Only. Plated ends up junk in pretty short order, especial 5pc Powers. Up here in the NW it's entirely pointless to use plated - they will all be complete junk in a decade if the bolts at Beacon bolts are any indication.
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Juan Maderita
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Aug 26, 2009 - 03:48am PT
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healyje,
Agreed, stainless for sure. In the Pacific NW / wet cool climate, I'd recommend spending a little more for the more corrosion resistant 316 SS, commonly called "marine grade" stainless steel. 304 SS is a cost effective alternative for drier climates.
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