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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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May 15, 2008 - 04:23pm PT
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I'd just like to note that bob got post #666 on this thread.
Two years ago, 666 posts on a thread was a record. How times have changed. :-)
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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May 15, 2008 - 04:27pm PT
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Coz, you deserver a lot of respect for your climbs. But here, you're crossing the line of being respectful.
While you might not be able to imagine drilling those bolts by hand, others do have respect for the Wilderness Act. Believe it or not, no power drills were used on Growing Up. I know, hard to believe for a rap-bolting, power-drill user such as yourself.
Also, saying that rap bolting HD is rape is, by association, calling the HD rap-bolters rapists. You can try to wordsmith your way out of it, or somehow try to justify your statement, but plan and simple, rape does not occur without a rapist.
Now back to your regular programming...
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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May 15, 2008 - 04:28pm PT
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Coz wrote
"Ya, just a slip, I am sure they drilled all those fat bolts in a couple days by hand, your right my bad."
Sean directly addressed the power drilling accusation in the big thread awhile back. He said they worked on the route 4 months. 20 bolts a day. I wasn't there but just making sure you saw the post, coz, after all, there was a lot to read there
peace
Karl
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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May 15, 2008 - 04:30pm PT
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Since I'm the devil (funny Anders) I call a spade a spade. Coz...why don't you have balls and just called Sean a liar, like cowboy up dude!
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Topic Author's Reply - May 15, 2008 - 04:42pm PT
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road to hell, indeed
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Bldrjac
Ice climber
Boulder
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May 15, 2008 - 04:56pm PT
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Huh,
weren't we originally discussing the nobility of trad climbing and the selfishness of sport climbing or was it the other way around?
I just can't keep up ..... On the Road To Hell!!!
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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May 15, 2008 - 04:59pm PT
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coz: "I should have never talked about Half Dome, the horse is dead and it appears I have lost"
Quite the opposite, I'd say. You stimulated a valuable and overdue discussion of some things that are critical to our community. Growing Up was established in summer 2007, and reported in R&I late last year. It was time for that debate.
IMHO the discussions did establish that (at the very least) anyone thinking about rap-bolting a new route in Yosemite should think very long and hard before doing so, look at all the aspects of what's proposed, and perhaps even discuss it within our community - beforehand.
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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May 15, 2008 - 05:23pm PT
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Coz wrote: I can take the heat, so I am still here Bob, I was just trying to talk about the fact that, preserving climbing freedoms was more important than what style of bolting one uses.
I was thinking, I was backing you up buddy, I thought you where making some good points.
I agree with you 100 per-cent. So let's leave style out of it and bang our collective heads together and see what we can come up with.
There are some very smart people on the thread who have done some amazing climbing...now it's time to see what we can do for climbing as a group.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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May 15, 2008 - 05:31pm PT
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Simple, recgonize the fact that we are all climbers with a common goal. The freedom to climb within reason most of the rocks and mountains in this great country. OOps! that won't be so simple will it??????
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Broken
climber
Texas
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May 15, 2008 - 06:46pm PT
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Bob D wrote:
"Good post.
I am not asking for every square yard of wilderness areas to access by everyone but that different people have a right to see and feel wild areas...handicapped or not."
Of course. No one wants every yard paved for handicap access, and on one wants to totally eliminate handicap access.
My issue with your statement was how it was used as an unassailable supporting point for development that Joe could not refute. At least, the tone of it implied - "you can't possibly disagree with this without being the 'bad guy.'"
And so I was simply showing that one could, in fact, disagree with it.
Whether that makes me a bad guy or not is not for me to say.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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May 15, 2008 - 07:42pm PT
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I should have never talked about Half Dome, the horse is dead and it appears I have lost, oh well......
Coz, certainly the route exists, so you may feel the horse is dead and that you have "lost." But that doesn't mean you shouldn't have pulled the route out for scrutiny.
I do see the point you're making about preserving the flavor of SFoHD, and it's valid as any. I also think you are right in defending your views as strongly as you do. But...you were basically calling Sean a liar about power drilling, and the rape thing has a pretty touchy side to it. I couldn't let those statements go without comment.
So please, do carry on. Just be aware that words can take on meanings that you didn't originally intend them to take.
Cheers...
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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May 15, 2008 - 08:34pm PT
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Coz wrote: I should have never talked about Half Dome, the horse is dead and it appears I have lost, oh well......
Yes you should and I'm glad you did...how else is a dysfunctional family like this one solves it's problems??
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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May 15, 2008 - 08:52pm PT
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Good one Wes!
hahahahaha.
(you know I, um, WE, luv yah Coz)
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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May 15, 2008 - 09:02pm PT
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Roy..I was wondering how long would take for someone to catch the humor in Wes's post.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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May 15, 2008 - 09:14pm PT
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Allright now, let's get back to bicker, before this humor gets any thicker...
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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May 15, 2008 - 09:28pm PT
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I've grown weary of this thread as I don't see a whole lot of convergence, just people exhausted arguing their point...
As for the offense that coz drew for characterizing what was done as "rape," I had posted upthread an excerpt from Robin Campbell's essay Climbing Ethics,
here, he uses "rape" also...
A final implication of this imperative is that rape is unethical: the mountain must have the chance of turning you down...
When you rap bolt a route there is little doubt of the outcome. Isn't that the point of rap bolting?
I have to say, what was done on HD was done more for the love of climbing and climbers than for the love of the mountain. How many have gone over there with the idea of putting up a great line and been defeated? We won't ever know... but in some ways, they didn't force an outcome and left it to a later generation to put up a route.
It is perhaps ironic that their love of the mountain was a deprecated value to that later generation.
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WBraun
climber
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May 15, 2008 - 09:53pm PT
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"..the mountain must have the chance of turning you down."
I like that, although I doubt anyone can conquer a mountain.
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TradIsGood
Chalkless climber
the Gunks end of the country
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May 15, 2008 - 09:54pm PT
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Personally, I save my love for family.
Stone is stone. Good for countertops, climbing, paving, sculpture and a whole ton of things!
So "raping" a mountain might be excavating it, but tossing some bolts in hardly amounts to much.
Climbing is recreation. It is not a competition against a mountain - IMO - but I am happy to agree to disagree on that. Not worth a twist in my shorts.
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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May 17, 2008 - 01:58am PT
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The road to hell is paved in bolts and sport anchors. REPENT!
Shelf Road;...Colorado's best crag......rack of draws.......enough metal hangers to offset magnetic north.....
(Just stirrin' the pot.....c'mon...this topic has more posts than Crimpie's picnic.....don't give up now......Gotta love that Boulder, yes Crimpergirl?......)
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