Side by Side Ethics, Practicality or the Road to Hell?

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csdude

Trad climber
colo springs CO
May 18, 2008 - 11:18am PT
Bob-

You never answered my question about the
Sports Park in Boulder canyon..

Do you think it's ok, or perhaps a bit "over the top"
??????

Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Topic Author's Reply - May 18, 2008 - 11:36am PT
Wow! Todd's really got a thing for women who bear twins!
Maybe he can get Angelina to adopt him.
Doug Robinson

Trad climber
Santa Cruz
May 18, 2008 - 11:47am PT
Don't worry about the younger generation, they're lurking to catch our perspective and -- mostly -- gone climbing to develop their own.

"The function of posterity is to look after itself." -- Dylan Thomas
bob d'antonio

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 18, 2008 - 12:48pm PT
dave wrote:Bob-

You never answered my question about the
Sports Park in Boulder canyon..

Do you think it's ok, or perhaps a bit "over the top"
??????


it's makes me a little ill....and in the new guidebook I am writing to Boulder Canyon I am leaving it out.

Funny..Ii don't look at the people who did it as bad or immoral...they are good people and still friends.
csdude

Trad climber
colo springs CO
May 18, 2008 - 01:15pm PT
Thanks Bob...

I'm am glad you can see what the "extreme"
side of sports/gym ethics have created.
It's pretty obnoxious if you ask me, in an area with
not hundreds, but thousands of good quality routes.
I think methamphetamine must have played a large part
in that. You really gotta wonder.
bob d'antonio

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 18, 2008 - 01:25pm PT
Dave wrote:Thanks Bob...

I'm am glad you can see what the "extreme"
side of sports/gym ethics have created.


They weren't gym or sport climbers who did it...


Dave...how are doing? Richard Aschert and I are heading down your way to Big Rock tomorrow. Are you climbing again??
csdude

Trad climber
colo springs CO
May 18, 2008 - 03:11pm PT
Bob writes...

"They weren't gym or sport climbers who did it...

Dave...how are doing? Richard Aschert and I are heading down your way to Big Rock tomorrow. Are you climbing again??"
___

I don't know exactly what they were, So were they trad climbers ??


Anyway, I'm back climbing again, getting up easy .10
on TR and such. With all the hardware in my ankel I'm
trying not to fall on it. Before I got hurt we (Mark, Glen) were pretty active doing lots of new stuff up on Rampart
Range and Mt. Herman.

What are you guys gonna do on Big Rock ??

Say hi to Richard, is his Dad
Fred still with us, how is he doing ??


bob d'antonio

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 18, 2008 - 03:28pm PT
Dave...we are Going to do Fields 0f Dreams...Fred is still with us and feisty as ever. I'll tell you say hi.

Kevin...it a cliff were just about anything went.
csdude

Trad climber
colo springs CO
May 18, 2008 - 04:05pm PT
Re: Boulder canyon "sports Park"


For those not familiar with that, it was a somewhat chossy
crag just a few miles from the Castle and it's famous trad routes.

Apparently this area was completley contrived for sport climbing with high density bolting and chiseled routes.
A few people went up there with chisels, bars, generators, lighting and even kerosean heaters and made their own little climbing gym.

Heres some more info...Read the comments
http://www.mountainproject.com/v/colorado/boulder/boulder_canyon/105744761
TradIsGood

Chalkless climber
the Gunks end of the country
Mar 19, 2009 - 09:09pm PT
bump. Who needs politics?
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
May 16, 2015 - 03:58pm PT
Looking at the numbers, on any given day the vast majority of climbs done worldwide are sport climbs.

Sport climbs utilize bolts.

The term "ground up" is nearly always used to refer to the style in which bolts are placed.

Bolts are added and are not a part of the natural rock architecture. Bolts are environmentally questionable and certainly utilizing them diminishes the style in which a climb is done.

The question shouldn't be about the merits of ground up climbing vs. sport climbing. The question should be ground up vs. rap bolting in regards to climbs utilizing bolts.

It's as if bolts and fixed pins were "grandfathered" in because they were heavily utilized in rock climbing bitd. but only if placed ground up in traditional style.

Bottom line....we all establish are own ethics in the anarchical world of climbing. Personally, I love the rock opened up to me vis a vis sport climbing but shun their use when establishing new alpine or alpine rock climbs.

I have established many alpine and alpine rock routes over the years and have placed a total of two hand drilled bolts 37 years ago. I also, weather permitting, plan to go sport climbing tomorrow.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
May 16, 2015 - 04:21pm PT
Regarding leaving areas sacrosanct in the pristine style in which they were established.

Dresden is world renowned as such an area.

Two of the most famous proponents of the Dresden style were Berndt Arnold and Kurt Albert.

Arnold and Albert came to the Fitzroy Masiff and made very liberal use of fixed ropes and a Bosch drill.

Does their style away from home negate the pure but artificial style they helped establish in Dresden. You can't use chalk or modern protection devices there but let it all hang out when you travel somewhere else.

Reminds me of Saudi Princes who condone the death penalty for adultery in their homeland while making liberal and repeated use of Vegas prostitutes.

Which area deserves the best style....urban Germany or the magnificent mountains of the Patagonian Andes?

Edit: I have met both Albert and Arnold in Patagonia and found them to be delightful people.
I'm just trying to point out the trickiness of establishing ethical codes in climbing....we all end up drifting into hypocrisy.
canyoncat

Social climber
SoCal
May 16, 2015 - 09:47pm PT
Am I the only one dying to know if that Jody person ever got his clock cleaned at the bridge on June 2, 2008? If ever a guy begged for it...
Mark Force

Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
May 16, 2015 - 09:56pm PT
Loved the quote that Ed H posted early in the thread.....

"(Climbing is)...a test of strength and skill in surmounting natural obstacles undertaken in accordance with traditional rules, and governed by the love of the thing for its own sake."

Frank Smythe, British mountaineer, 1900-1949
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 16, 2015 - 10:36pm PT
My feeling is that the trads undermine their own high point by so demonizing those who have a different view.

The keepers of the flame must be ever vigilant and remorseless in their righteousness.
There is no mercy and, certainly, no salvation for those who glorify a path of weakness and
indulgence.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
May 17, 2015 - 04:55am PT
There as no violent altercation at the bridge 6/2/08
Jody & Ed Hartouni at the Bachar memorial in '09.
Kumbaya 'n shit!
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