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rockermike
Mountain climber
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Indian Climber; you still around?
I like your set up with microscender and croll. How's it working at this point? Still your go-to rig?
And re; Blacks figure 8 with small hole as backup idea - I actually have a very old stich plate with two slots. I think it might work for your purpose. Interesting idea. May give it a shot.
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Aug 12, 2009 - 05:03pm PT
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I'm liking it. but it also appears to say don't use a rope over 10 mil with ascenders for self belay?
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Aug 12, 2009 - 05:24pm PT
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so then the "greater then" symbol is saying use a rope over 10 mil, that would make sense. Gotcha.
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Majid_S
Mountain climber
Bay Area
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Aug 12, 2009 - 07:40pm PT
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one person is already laying down under six feet of dirt plus three other big wall climbers almost died while using pro traxion during their big wall climb.
think twice before using that pro-T device for solo TR.
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rockermike
Mountain climber
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Aug 12, 2009 - 10:25pm PT
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Majid, I don't get it. What is it about the Protrax that fails? Or were these user error accidents.
As to the minitrax, anyone think you could use a minitrax to create an adjustable daisy, similar to Kate's Ushba rig? I love multi functional stuff.
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Majid_S
Mountain climber
Bay Area
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Aug 12, 2009 - 11:56pm PT
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rockermike
Somehow the Pro-T has very tight clearness between the moving plate (market in red)and the shaft that holds the pulley. A proper and most likely a tight biner must be used to keep the plate from sliding backward. if you do not use a big fat biner in the lower hole, the plate will move causing the load on the pulley to bend the plate on the other side allowing the cam not to become engage with the rope.
In Zion, a climber died when the plate moved backward causing him to fall on a loaded line while jugging. At least three other climber fell short distance in Yosemite due to similar problem since jan 2009.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Aug 13, 2009 - 12:05am PT
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So, what part of this statement do yous guys knott understand:
"The Pro-Trax is a colossal piece of junk."
It is poorly designed and engineered, inefficient in its hauling capacity, and known to fail under heavy load. It's bad enough to trust your pig to this POS, but your life?
Were you born stupid, or do you just look that way?
Incidentally, half of the people who use this piece of sh|t don't even know that you *have* to put a carabiner through the second hole, too!
Petzl oughta get their ass sued over this thing. I hope they do. They usually make really good stuff, except this thing. Geeeeeeez.........
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Rob_James
Ice climber
Aoraki/Mt. Cook Village, New Zealand
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Aug 13, 2009 - 03:23am PT
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The Petzl diagram Chris McNamara offers is the highest standard of safety for this system when using a dynamic top-rope.
You can substitute his Petzl Ascender diagram for your pro-traxion - clip the device directly to your harness via a large locker. Additionally though, a second biner/soliddly tied bit of cord needs to fit the device so that the 'plate' cannot swing open. Fiddling around, you'll understand.
"Indianclimbers" rigging is ill-thought, refer to Chris's Petzl diagram as to why. 'Backing-up' with two traxion or ascending devices is suspect. Use knots instead.
If you are using a chest harness/lanyard to align so the device ascends smoother, ensure that the chest harness is not load bearing in the event of a fall (unless it is a properly rated/designed/tested chest harness - no in-situs!)
Discipline, remember to back things up every 10 metres or so with a solid knot in the rope below you. And recall, smooth technique and movement - no big dynos, barndoor swings or flying overhangs.
It's a fun and reliable way to focus on footwork and controlled breathing. But it's not a true substitute for a real belay, so please don't climb (above others especially) with the illusion that it is - tone down your effort.
Keep warm, but stay cool.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Aug 13, 2009 - 11:23am PT
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There is at least one thread here on McTopo where the pros show you how to properly toprope self-belay using a couple Mini-Traxions. Look it up, and toss your Pro-Trax.
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okie
Trad climber
San Leandro, Ca
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Aug 13, 2009 - 11:45am PT
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All these hands-free self belaying methods are truly awesome! The basic ascender and the mini traxion work great for tr, a big improvement over manually pulling in slack with each move like with the Soloist which is now definitely obsolete. Whatever system you use for solo tr, climb up a few feet and give it a good test. I do this every time. This reassures me and after that I can almost forget about the rope entirely and climb free!
As for leading, I have done some free climbs on loops of slack (the knot method). This does work well on routes well within your ability that have convenient rests where you can do the rope work. I've tried the Silent Partner but haven't gotten used to it. It seems you have to tie off at least every other piece of pro otherwise the rope weight cinches the clove tight on the device and then you're done. In the middle of the crux this is a revolting developement.
Obviously you need bombproof anchors to do any of this stuff and falling while on lead is forbidden!
And something else: belay anchors need to be multi-directional for leading, as well as anything you tie off!
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno
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Aug 13, 2009 - 11:57am PT
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We've all been saying the ProTrax is a piece of sh#t for a long time here. There's no way you researched this topic and didn't come across those comments. Your choice, dude.
I use mini traxions. I also used the exact same system as Indian Climber for quite a while. Or pretty close to it, anyway. A Petzl Basic and a MicroScender. That setup also worked very well.
CMac - Diggin the diagram. I forgot my solo rig one day and tried using regular ascenders. I never thought to clip the ascender as in your diagram. I clipped from the bottom, with the top clipped into my slings. Sucked major ass! hahahaha Ended up just soloing moderates that day. Was SO frustrated. hahaha
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Indianclimber
Trad climber
Lost Wages
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Aug 13, 2009 - 01:47pm PT
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Rockermike,I am still using the Croll and microcender setup
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Footloose
Trad climber
Lake Tahoe
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Aug 13, 2009 - 03:16pm PT
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Since I'm here (because my climbing plans for today just fell apart an hour ago and now it's too hot to join Chim in Woodfords, aughh!) I'll pipe in...
I toprope solo with ONE ascender (both basic and ascension) exactly like Petzl says... as C Mac photo alluded to also. Works great. Always has. No mini-traxion. (Though wouldn't mind finding one as booty.) I also feed rope through chest sling biner to keep it organized, in a known place.
The only time I use two ascenders (the second for redundancy) is when I don't tie backup knots (rare so far in my experience) because terrain circumstances would make them cumbersome. Otherwise a backup knot always... a backup knot (sometimes 30 feet like someone said, sometimes every ten feet, yeah, because I'm a aging wuss??) is plenty redundant AS LONG AS... as in C Mac Petzy drawing... rope containment locking biner is used to contain the rope.
To be clear, I've never TR soloed with just one ascender and no backup knot.
Happy solo!
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Footloose
Trad climber
Lake Tahoe
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Aug 13, 2009 - 04:02pm PT
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Chris- Just an overhand on a bite even (it seems to provide plenty of profile for my 10.2, also for my safety sense). And I don't clip in, just let the rope alone. Yeah, it's interesting mnfr doesn't indicate a backup knot as part of the entire system. I don't know, personally, I'm not THAT confident in pin axle rivets and rope biting capability to preclude the extra measure. But for me, safety is all about the rope containment locking biner containing the rope and the backup knot. And of course the toprope anchor!
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scotty vincik
climber
up north, these days
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Aug 13, 2009 - 10:49pm PT
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I've broken 2 mini traxions and 1 pro traxion hauling. All were bent side plates, on the mini because it doesn't lock in place, and on the pro because it didn't get locked in place. And 1 wall hauler, BTW. Many weight!! I self belay top rope on the Petzl ascender like Chris Mac posted. Bitchin' It will push a 5mm prussik if you like as well. Feeds fine. Camming against a pulley, which relies on alignment of an axle for proper engagement, when the side plates are free floating by design? Sketchy.
Scotty
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scotty vincik
climber
up north, these days
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Aug 13, 2009 - 10:53pm PT
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I've also had to jug 7mm cord free hanging when we bailed off a wall and tied everything together to hit the ground. We had to go back up and get our stuff, so... We tested it by clipping the jug one inch from the frayed end of some 7mm, and bounced it with and aider until we thought the wall tent was going to come down. It bit fine, so I don't worry about ropes a little less than 10mm.
Scotty
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tokyo bill
Social climber
tokyo
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Aug 13, 2009 - 11:46pm PT
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With apologies if this is well known to everyone, I'd like to bump a question from up thread:
sac posted:
"I've used the Ushba device. I quit when I read about all of the ropes it's pinched in half."
Can you share your info. reguarding this?
I have used this device for 10 yrs.
Only flaw I experienced is the spring in cam lobe failing,(would still arrest fall), ordered part, and repaired.
My system for shorter pitches under 30m, is to fix rope @ middle, ascend using one "side", and clip to intermitant loops tied in other for back up.
I use the same rig with an Ushba and have done for quite some time. Can anyone provide more info. on the problems with the Ushba? Maybe a link to failure reports or something?
Thanks.
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