Need a picture of carabineers made by Pierre Allain Co.


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Mountain climber
Bay Area
Topic Author's Original Post - Mar 21, 2008 - 02:03pm PT
I am looking for photos of a carabineer made by Pierre Allain Company in 1950s. The gate on this biner did not come with a notch and it was rated to 15KN ( That is what I been told).

I know your dad left you with some of those biners so post some photos of this biner especially photos from the gate .


Trad climber
Boulder Colorado
Mar 21, 2008 - 02:14pm PT
what's in it for me?


might B something like that in Neptune's museum,
I'm burnt today, gotta stay home - but will take a look
perhaps this weekend.


Mountain climber
Bay Area
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 21, 2008 - 02:19pm PT
Thanks Ray

Take the camera and take some photos.


Trad climber
Boulder Colorado
Mar 21, 2008 - 02:22pm PT
feel free to bump this or fire me an E for reminder - old brain,

someone else might come thru tho...
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Mar 21, 2008 - 05:44pm PT

I checked my collection of booty and found a Pierre Allain biner (2800 Kg), along with a Rene Desmaison (2900 Kg), and a Cassin of similar vintage (3000). I have used the Rene Desmaison and Cassin as my main hauling biner on several climbs. All have the standard pins in the gate and corresponding notch in the nose.

These guys were serious climbers and serious gear designers - note the larger diameter on the loading side of the D, for the Allain and Desmaison, and the "swayback" on the Cassin. They wanted strong biners, so they used pins in the gate. The early Chouinard/Frost biners looked like this Allain; I am not sure which came first.

[Edit to add:] Weights: Allain 2.4 oz., Desmaison 2.9 oz., Cassin 2.6 oz. Compare to a Black Diamond oval with solid gate 2.2 oz. (18KN gate closed, 6KN open)

My dad had steel biners on his rack (prior to climbing with me).


Trad climber
Boulder Colorado
Mar 21, 2008 - 05:49pm PT

Mountain climber
Bay Area
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 21, 2008 - 05:54pm PT

I have some old cassin biner but I never seen PA biner ,not like that. look at the size of that thing.

Some heavy duty biner.



Ajaccio, Corsica, France.
Dec 3, 2009 - 01:06pm PT
Bonjour Majid_S

Is it what you mean...?

Stephane / Nuts Museum

Tucson, AZ
Dec 3, 2009 - 01:23pm PT

Oakland: what's not to love?
Dec 3, 2009 - 02:49pm PT
Nutstory, it looks like you could put the biner on the left of your photo through a bull's nose! That's a beautiful piece.

the Moon and Antarctica
Dec 3, 2009 - 02:54pm PT
Cool how it's made with the I-beam cross section. What was old is new again...
Brian Hench

Trad climber
Anaheim, CA
Dec 3, 2009 - 03:00pm PT
So these carabiners do not depend on the gate for strength? They are just as strong open as closed?

Trad climber
Calgary, Alberta
Dec 3, 2009 - 03:11pm PT
The large bulbous biner on the left above reminds me of a Scott carabiner used by the RAF Mountain Rescue teams in the 50's and 60. They were huge and had a tremendously wide back. Cannot remember any ratings. Will have to check.
I still have two pinless gate PA biners which have never been used and a few other odd shapes including a hot forged Clog D. The two PA biners are after the fiasco of early ones failing at very low weights and have Vickers (I think) hardness impressions on them. This was to ensure correct hardness to achieve the desired strength after the breakage episode.
Anyone remember the Scott biners these?

Mountain climber
Eastsound, Wa
Dec 3, 2009 - 11:07pm PT
I have a PIERRE ALAIN carabiner just like the one in the center of the photo above.

I found it hanging from a drilled in ring angle piton at the Garden of the Gods in Colorado Springs in about 73. These or a stubby angle driven hard into a 3/8" drilled hole was the standard and preferred anchor in that soft sandstone.

The carabiner was very neatly stamped with the name J.AULD . Asking around I found that a local climber, John Auld had been sent to prison for raping and murdering a young woman at Colorado College a few years before. Anyone know any more of that story?

It was a very well made piece of hardware, heavy duty, but as noted with no hook on the gate. I still have it and carried it for years on my rack clipped with a Lost Arrow Long Dong with a tooth filed in the tip for use as a nut cleaning tool.
Brian in SLC

Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
Dec 4, 2009 - 12:12am PT
Couple more...

Both biners say "Brevete S.G.D.G" on the backside.

Any idear what that means?

Edit to add my google search: "Breveté" = patented. "S.G.D.G." (Sans garantie du Gouvernement) is a disclaimer required by the government of France stating that it does not guarantee enforcement of the claimed patent.

-Brian in SLC

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Dec 4, 2009 - 12:30am PT
Here are a couple of PA biners, one of them a locker, that I posted earlier on the on an earlier carabiner thread.

Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Dec 4, 2009 - 01:23am PT
Wow, some great notchless biners! I remember the ones Roger posted in the other thread.
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Oct 19, 2012 - 03:47am PT
A nice article on Pierre Allain from 1978 is posted here:
The last page notes:
 he invented the aluminum alloy carabiner in 1939
 he sold aluminum alloy carabiners commercially from 1947 to 1978 or later
 the PA rock shoes were first made in 1948
scuffy b

heading slowly NNW
Oct 19, 2012 - 12:49pm PT
My first partner was Guck, in Santa Barbara.
His rack was PA carabiners entirely. I was exceedingly envious.

Trad climber
Santa Barbara, CA
Oct 30, 2012 - 11:00am PT
Hi Scuffy,

I still have all the carabiners and use them regularly. If I send you one of them, will it stop the 40 year old bad memories?

I always thought the enscription "SGDG" meant under warranty from the government. I wondered who would cover that warranty should they fail. They have seen a lot of use and still work like new.
Clint, It seems that you found one of my biners (all my biners had orange paint on them)! Can I have it back?!! ...just joking.
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