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Moof
Big Wall climber
A cube at my soul sucking job in Oregon
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Aug 12, 2009 - 05:48pm PT
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Mike pointed out the mixed use of one or two cuffs with a set of alpine ladders (from Fish). You can just walk up the bottom could steps, and depending on the steepness start hooking from third step. You retain the ease of going free (hook a quick draw, stow the aider/daisy, and just step up free up entanglements). It's a bit more bulky in flares, and a but more hassle when jugging, but it overall is a nice variation.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 12, 2009 - 08:17pm PT
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Kate uses a hybrid system of Russkies and regular aiders. Maybe she can talk about it a bit.
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malabarista
Trad climber
PA, then AZ, then CO, Now CA, soon OR
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May 11, 2010 - 04:04pm PT
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I just bought Tea's Russkies and can hardly wait to try them out. Will I be converted? Will my traditional aid style be a thing of the past? I'm intrigued...
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mh001
Mountain climber
Beijing, China
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Sep 22, 2013 - 09:25am PT
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Has anyone tried to combine the Russian aider cuffs with adjustable aiders? By that I mean connecting the webbing part of adjustable aiders to the cuffs, probably to the jugging loops by the side of the hooks, hence forgoing the need of the Russian aider tree and the hooks, and of course the cuff part of the adjustable aiders.
I think because the point where the aider is connected to the cuff has degree of freedom (to rotate) the "camming action" which Russian aiders provide when top-stepping is preserved.
If this works it would make the Russian aiders much less fiddly to use. And easier to make. And make the adjustable aiders not just only good for following?
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JMC
climber
the land of milk and honey
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Sep 23, 2013 - 08:52pm PT
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There's a pair up on the ebay auction block now - Trango Russian aiders.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Sep 24, 2013 - 09:54am PT
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That Ebay set sold for $109.99 already. What were the Trango sets going for when new?
Wasn't Fish giving them away with every purchase of a cow bag? :-)
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 5, 2014 - 10:52am PT
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Please use this thread instead!
Cheers, eh?
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 5, 2014 - 11:32am PT
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OK, to answer your questions from the previous thread:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2540251&tn=0
and to provide a quick recap:
The Russian Aider System is something where you attach a stirrup to your leg each day when aid climbing. You put the stirrup on in the morning, and you take it off at night. It has a hook that sits just below your knee, that you clip into Russ' excellent Aid Trees.
They are not unsafe - any considerations that the very rounded hook will somehow catch during a fall, or stab you, are unfounded.
I wouldn't call them a gimmick, nor are they "full of flaws". If they were, I could not have climbed so many hard aid routes on El Cap using them.
Certainly they did not become as popular as I predicted they would. This is partially because a lot of people don't like them, or understand them, but mostly because there is no available source of cuffs. There may be a source of cuffs over in Russia these days, but they are probably expensive.
Craig's buddy Brutus of Wyde aka Bruce Bindner put me onto these things. He used them on an early ascent of Tempest, and loved them so much - and knew that I would too - that he mailed me his only pair. At the time, you could still buy the setup from Trango, but Trango no longer makes them. I believe Russ bought all the titanium rings, and sewed them up into the Aid Trees you see here. Russ' aid trees are really good, incidentally - I use them:
So here are a quick list of the advantages and disadvantages.
ADVANTAGES:
 Primary advantage is climbing steep aid. Russian Aiders give you a torquing moment between your ankle and your knee, meaning that it is easy to stand tall on overhanging rock
If you have ever worn downhill skis and boots, you will know that with the high-top ski boots clipped into your bindings, you can sit down on the back of your skis, and then stand up again "no handed" by torquing on the ski boots and the back of the skis. This is the precise advantage you gain on steep aid with Russkies - your legs can do the work instead of your stomach muscles
If you are going to spend a lot of time aid climbing on hard aid on steep rock, you really need to try these things, if you can find them and have the opportunity
DISADVANTAGES:
More numerous disadvantages, but to this wall rat, the advantages FAR outweigh the disadvantages
The gear is hard to find. Russ makes great aid trees [the things with the rings] but the cuffs plus hooks are hard to come by. May be an expensive source in Russia. A few guys here have made them up, though. You need to be clever and be good with a sewing machine
They are no good on easy aid. This is because you are climbing primarily cracks that are less than vertical. If you are climbing a less-than-vertical C1 crack on Russian Aiders, the aid rings WILL get stuck in the crack below you. This is not Big Wall Theory, this is Big Wall Fact
For the reason above, a few n00bs here tried Russians, and rejected them, because they are annoying on easy aid. But get into the steep A3-A4 range, and you are sure to love them
This is the reason they are hard to find - the market is too small. These things are not going to benefit people doing the NBD routes. You really need to get into the NTB to PDH ratings to take advantage of them
If you are a speed climber, you can climb faster with regular aiders. Russkies give you the advantage on steep-hard aid, where you have to hang around a long time fiddle-fukking with tricky placements
-They really suck if you have to bust a free move, because the stirrup sits under the midstep of your foot. It is certainly best to remove the stirrup if you have to bust some free moves, because if you stand on it by accident, you could find yourself airborne!
Kate uses one Russkie and one standard aider on each adjustable daisy. She has a very clever but expensive system of adjustables using a full strength hunk of skinny mountaineering cord, and an Ushba lightweight titanium hauling device. Full strength, sweet, smoooth, but expensive!
MYTHS:
That they are unsafe - they're not
That the hook will catch when you fall - it won't, it's too small
That the hook will gore you - impossible, as it is rounded
Ultimately, though - "each to his own". I happen to believe that Russian Aiders are the Better Way on steep aid, but the Better Way is whatever works best for you.
Brutus told me Donini had used the things down in Patagonia. Jim - I would like to hear more of this.
Cheers,
Pete aka Dr. Piton
Still using Russkies exclusively
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Thanks, Pete. Good analysis as always.
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