Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
johntp
Trad climber
Punter
|
|
|
Apr 18, 2019 - 06:35am PT
|
Feedback:
Hi John
He didnt mention if he is using the old fashioned tin lead solder or one of the “new” so called safer solders. It might not matter as the newer solders contain antimony and other elements that are probably just as unhealthful.
Ammonia is very alkaline, where as the fumes from the solder are probably acidic
Not sure any scrubber will make the air totally safe and of course with multiple contaminants they will likely exhaust quickly.
Meanwhile the people making impregnated filters dont share their techniques. If they go with carbon they might consider a tank with granular carbon. Its slower so you need more but it is MUCH cheaper so overall it is probably more cost effective
Consider an external air supply and mask. This is likely cheaper than anything else
Sorry for the delay and short answer, we are in the Caribbean on a cruise and the shipboard internet is below horrible
Peter
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Apr 18, 2019 - 06:39am PT
|
Consider an external air supply and mask. This is likely cheaper than anything else
That's what I would suggest.
Welders who weld in confined spaces use this method.
If you don't take care breathing this stuff somewhere down the line in time you won't be recognizing Eric anymore :-)
Your stain glass work is beautiful, keep up the good work .....
|
|
justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 18, 2019 - 07:33am PT
|
Can't work in a full mask- I've tried it several times over the years. There's major visibility issues and they just are a total PIA in real life.
@ Winemaker- I'll look into that. Maybe just finding a cheaper source for filters is the solution. Not having a lot of luck Googling for it though.
Fear: This is a small workstation used by one person to solder common materials producing slightly hazardous fumes. She's not working with Ebola.
Lol^^^ ''tis true :)
Lorenzo: don't know what you are soldering ( lead?, copper? Tin?)
Yes- yes and yes. 60/40 lead/ tin solder on top of copper and brass. No actual brazing. Just a very hot set of soldering irons sculpting a lot of solder.
I've been at this about 30 years at this point- I've run the gamut of fluxes and solders. The technique I'm using doesn't work with substitutes. The flux can't be too watery or thick/pasty The one I use is a liquid gel that actually has WAY less smoke and splatter than anything else I've ever used and cleans up very easily.
Edit- note on sal ammoinac. I use this for re- tinning/cleaning iron tips. Detailed decorative soldering requires a flawlessly clean iron tip. There's a number of ways to do this but they are all smoky and toxic.
A note on lead-free solder for anyone freaked about lead- "safe" solder totally blows. Looks like sh#t. Solders like sh#t. And costs 4x as much to boot. ( I use 80 lbs a year so it's an issue) I get tested for lead levels yearly. ( no issues there) .
@ Jlp- I'll look into heat recovery stuff. The new system has a heavy-duty HEPA filter that is still fine- it's the acid gas filters that burn out quickly.
@cliff: that's pretty much what I have now- flexible hose attached to a strong suction- it works great- the issue is how to vent what's coming out of the fan.
Like I said- I'm thinking about just modifying this thing to vent externally when the temps are warmer.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Apr 18, 2019 - 07:43am PT
|
A note on lead-free solder for anyone freaked about lead- "safe" solder totally blows.
100% agree.
I do a lot soldering on electrical connections daily.
And I once tried lead-free and immediately ruled it out for my use.
|
|
fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
|
|
|
Apr 18, 2019 - 07:44am PT
|
A note on lead-free solder for anyone freaked about lead- "safe" solder totally blows. Looks like sh#t. Solders like sh#t.
Thank you for that reality check... The fear of lead is highly overblown, esp for what you're doing which nobody will ever be chewing on or drinking from....
|
|
TradEddie
Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
|
|
|
Apr 18, 2019 - 07:22pm PT
|
The two chemicals I need to neutralize are :
Ammonium Chloride NH4 Cl and
Zinc Chloride ZnCl2
Neither of those chemicals needs "neutralizing" in the chemical sense. Although they might decompose to form acidic products, their danger isn't simple acidity. In solution they have a pH of about 5, which while acidic, is barely lower than pure water that has sat for a few hours and absorbed Carbon Dioxide. With boiling points of 520C and 732C respectively, fumes may not even have condensed back to suspended liquid mist or solid when entering a particle filer, and gas will pass through particle filters. Google "Lab snorkel" for a possible solution that keeps fumes away from you. This should be much less expensive than any filtration system.
TE
|
|
Yury
Mountain climber
T.O.
|
|
|
Apr 19, 2019 - 07:57am PT
|
fear:
This is a small workstation used by one person to solder common materials producing slightly hazardous fumes. She's not working with Ebola.
Don't overthink it... vent a real lab chemical hood to the outside and call it a day. Some have variable fans that you can adjust simply to suit changing conditions. Messing with filters seems like the wrong way to go. +++
I agree with fear.
Instead of "Oven hood" get real "Chemical lab hood".
The key is to have powerful enough fan that can ensure fast enough flow of air into the hood.
Note: Your heating bills would go significantly up. There is no way around.
Most chemists use this setup and only tiny minority uses more complex stuff.
If simple hood doesn't work, supplement it with a local exhaust sucking fumes directly from your soldering area.
I do not recall seeing absorbing filters used in real lab environment.
Full isolation seems like an overkill to me.
|
|
justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 19, 2019 - 08:21am PT
|
The new system is actually a "snorkel" -type as Trad Eddie recommends. The fan/suction works awesome - the issue (again) is what to do about the air coming out the other end. I'm guessing i'll probably going to have to give up on working in a heated space most of the time. Had a long conversation with one of the posters here about just making the space retain heat better via insulation and better heating systems.
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
|
Apr 19, 2019 - 11:18am PT
|
A 6K vent-free propane heater 5’ away should keep you toasty (at least on one side 😊)
for a few bucks per day.
ProCom Blue Flame is what you want.
|
|
Aeriq
Sport climber
100-year Visitor
|
|
|
Apr 19, 2019 - 04:36pm PT
|
Hey, Winemaker - she is off hanging a few hundred moth pheromone confusion traps in apple trees today, but to this:
Have you thought of something like a glove box?
The manual dexterity required to do her level of artistry would not work with this set-up.
That fume hood is sweet, but the industrial station is not gonna fly - she needs venting with free movement in an open space with TV and cats...
I really like the perimeter down-draft idea. Seems like that with a remote vaccuum would be aces.
Also curious about heat reclamation...
Great ideas everyone, thanks!
|
|
Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
|
|
|
Apr 19, 2019 - 04:41pm PT
|
The manual dexterity required to do her level of artistry would not work with this set-up.
I understood that; what I was thinking was simply having an elastic sleeve around the upper arm (or somewhere) making it easy to insert arms and then use bare hands, not gloves, for the work.
|
|
Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
|
|
|
Apr 19, 2019 - 05:21pm PT
|
One other thought: Would a blower across the work towards the vent help, give the fumes a little push? I did production wood working as a kid, and my dad built a system to both blow AND suck. Heh. For a tech OT thread, this has been surprisingly funny.
BAd
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!