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skywalker1
Trad climber
co
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Man I had an Astro AWD that was just a basic utility truck that I made my home literally. The thing was awesome!!! If you can find one anywhere in good shape fly there and drive it back. I had to kiss mine goodby after having kids cause of need for seating.
Dumb move as I could have spent the money to tear it out and make it kid friendly. Live and learn.
It was like tradmans. Jealous.... Can't believe they stopped making them.
S....
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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So you’re saying the Mercs are fine now? Did I ever say they weren't? All these modern diesel vehicles are mostly the same - big, complicated and potentially really expensive machines that require more attention to detail in maintenance than most owners and mechanics are capable of delivering. MB is fine, so are the other leaders.
Fiat is not in the same league. I'd put them at the dead bottom.
Can't believe they stopped making them. [Astrovan] They stopped making them because they landed on Consumer Report's "Worst 10" list for every year they were made - and they earned it. That a few freakish units are still on the road baffles me. Most of my friends who owned them had nothing but major issues, starting very early.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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206k on my Astro. I See 3 other Astros arround town daily. Saw a bunch of them in Colorado and Wyoming on my last two trips. My only problem with the Astro is it is too small for an indoor kitchen with a fridge. And is old enough and high miles to be worry free on long trips.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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I doubt that was the reason. Heck jeeps make it on that list every year and they keep making them. Style changes and in the struggle to come up with the latest new thing lots of great rigs get mangled or the chop..
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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When you drive a Porsche you notice other Porsches. jess sayin’... 😉
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Ps. Proveing jlp wrong on the Astro is one reason I will buy a pro master if the right deal comes along. He had me talked out of it for awhile but my vani turned 200k and l am not needing any negativity. If the right promaster deal comes along its going to be a winner.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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When your ride has been out of production for 23 days short of 13 years it's a good sign when you see them still on the road.
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Sula
Trad climber
Pennsylvania
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I bought a 2018 Ford Transit T-250 cargo van in July.
Previous vehicle was a Ford E-150 van, which did a great job over 19 years. Total non-routine maintenance: alternator, water pump & windshield washer hose. It was still running well at trade-in (275k miles) but I frequently haul a large trailer, and it really wasn't quite up to that.
For more than a year I'd been looking at an upgrade. Based on hearing a lot of good things about them, I kind of assumed I'd end up with a Sprinter - even at the price premium involved. But within the past 9 months 3 different friends had issues with their Sprinters, and all reported that the cost of repairs had run well into the painful range. The online reviews I found favored the Transit over the Promaster, and I found a pretty good buy on one this summer in Montana - so now I own it.
It's been flat-out excellent so far (9.5k miles). It has the 3.5l twin turbo gas engine that delivers impressive power and decent gas mileage (18 around town, over 20 highway). Diesel engine would do better, but adds substantial cost & weight, and the extra cost of the fuel eats up most of the gas mileage improvement.
I know some people really need it, but no way could I justify the weight, complexity and cost of 4wd. As before, I'll just go with winter tires.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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When your ride has been out of production for 23 days short of 13 years it's a good sign when you see them still on the road.
Crankloon logic! There is no end to the pieces of crap I see on the road! Hell, saw a DeLorean a week or two ago! Some crazy looking dood with long white hair was driving it!
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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small Cummins The new small 3 liter "Ecodiesel" in the Ram 1500 pickup truck is not a Cummins. In the Jeep Grand Cherokee it adds $4500 to the MSRP, so clearly they are not trying to sell many, despite raising the combined mpg rating from 20 to 24. The Cummins 6.7 liter diesel in the 2500 & 3500 pickup trucks: as with all of the heavy duty big 3, they are made for stump pulling torque and towing 15000 to 30000 lbs. A capability not needed by most who get a van, who just want cheap and/or higher mpg.
But the actual cargo load capacity of these vans is around 4000 lbs, higher than most full size pickup trucks.
The Ford F150 has a new 3.0 liter V-6 Powerstroke diesel option, but it's more powerful than the diesel I-5 in the Transit. In either, the Diesel is a $3900 upgrade, and not very available. In the 4x4 truck, it's rated 23mpg combined, compared to the 2.7 turbo gas which is rated (likely with a very light foot) 22mpg combined. Mileage in the van is unrated by EPA.
Similarly, Dodge Ram 1500 truck has the 3 liter "EcoDiesel" V6 upgrade for $4400, which is a different engine than the I-4 Fiat diesel that was used in the Promaster van, until now. I see Ram has now shelved that diesel for the Ram ProMaster. Slow sales since it was a $5000 upgrade compared to the gas V-6. Only the Transit and Sprinter still have a diesel option.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Diesel ... the extra cost of the fuel eats up most of the gas mileage improvement. That's what I've seen. Diesel costs less to refine, but they are charging more for it recently - almost penny for penny the additional BTU / mileage you'd expect over gasoline. The engines used to not be such an expensive upgrade. These costs seem to completely wipe out the mileage savings. If you have a lead foot and stomp on it everywhere you go, the diesel will win in power and efficiency. For normal driving, not so much.
The turbo Ford Transit - looks like an interesting option. It would be my choice if I were in the market. Ford seems to offer more options and creature comforts in the cab as well, the MB's are sort of stocky and commercial. It's easy to under rate the importance of driver comfort, but you'll probably be spending a lot of time in the driver's seat.
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Sula
Trad climber
Pennsylvania
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Ford Transit van maintainability data point:
Parking my van on a narrow street, I pulled in too close to a telephone pole stationed close to the curb, and managed to crack the turn signal lens that protrudes from the outside rearview mirror on the passenger side. While I was contemplating the damage, a passing truck took out the same lens on the driver-side mirror. So two lenses broken in two separate incidents about 45 seconds apart.
I got online and found several websites selling replacement lenses. 4 days later, both had arrived and I installed them - total cost was $28.
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Sport climber
moving thru
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Dec 10, 2018 - 01:26pm PT
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I've enjoyed this thread. Thanks everyone for all your info. I'm glad I decided to keep my 2006 Chevy Express van 11 years ago. The only problem I've ever had was with the transfer case for the AWD.....and that was owner error. Gotta keep the fluid changed out just like transmission fluid. Learned my lesson the hard/expensive way.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Dec 10, 2018 - 05:28pm PT
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I would think a FWD Promaster with blizzaks would be as good as any 4wd in the snow.
Snow tires are hugely important. One of the most important things in snow driving is being able to stop and 4WD does for little for that but snow tires do. 4WD helps you from getting stuck and may help you maneuver your way out of an accident. I was in a line of traffic in a 4WD Toyota when somebody lost control and the two people in front of me hit them, but I was able to use 4WD to pull in the correct direction, off the side of the road, around the chain reaction, and back onto the road.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Dec 10, 2018 - 05:53pm PT
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4wd gives you more potential points of power to maneuver, and the tires/chains provide the friction so that power can be translated to useful work instead of spinning wheels (or power removed from the wheel because it has no traction).
2wd with great tires/chains is way better than 4wd with crappy tires. Of course, 4wd with great tires/chains is even better.
and an extension of the topic... from what I've read (not practiced on my own yet), narrow tires are better in mud/snow when you want to cut through it and reach the ground below it for better traction. If it's deep sand or snow where there is no bottom to reach, then the wide tires floating on top is better.
and a locking differential (which Sprinter 4x4 does not have but some after-market 4x4 conversions do, and some 2wd vans do also have after-market lockers installed), will give you better traction in some situations where the tires have inconsistent resistance.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locking_differential
Sprinters do have a feature called ASR (acceleration skid control) that is part of the Electronic Stability Program (ESP) - feature BB9. The idea is when you accelerate and a tire loses traction and starts spinning with no contact friction, the computer removes power to that wheel even if you are gunning the accelerator and the engine is revving. This is very helpful in most situations but backfires when going slow/stuck in some offroad/sand/snow conditions. I experienced this while being stuck in deep sand in the Sprinter in 4x4 Lo mode. I did figure out to disable this ASR feature (there is a switch on the driver's console), and it definitely helped get me out (after I dug out a bit). The wheels were now spinning rather than nothing happening, and I was able to get out when I made something for the tires to partially bite on to get out.
So one might say that disabling the ASR feature on the Sprinter is like a poor-man's locking differential? Close enough for wannabe forum talking and getting newb's like me unstuck after doing something stupid.
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Jamesthomsen
Social climber
Mammoth Lakes, California
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Dec 10, 2018 - 06:01pm PT
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We have a 2016 4x4 Sprinter and have almost 50,000 miles on it, including a lot of dirt road driving. No problems and we love it.
We have a diesel heater and diesel cooktop, so no propane, everything runs off the fuel tank.
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Jamesthomsen
Social climber
Mammoth Lakes, California
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Dec 10, 2018 - 09:07pm PT
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I did the conversion myself.....took awhile since we kept leaving on trips, but now I'm really happy with it. It fits the way we use it.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Dec 11, 2018 - 03:17am PT
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My real world experience is that 4x4 with crap tires still kicks 2wd for getting up hills and through rough spots. Crap tires suck for going down hills, steering and stopping. Traction control regardless of what name the manufacturer gives it sucks for getting up hills and through rough spots. Momentum is key for getting up hills and through rough spots but traction control kills your momentum..
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norm larson
climber
wilson, wyoming
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Dec 11, 2018 - 05:19am PT
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We've got almost 170K miles on our Chevy Express and aside from the usual things needed for a rig with that many miles we've had no problems with dependability. AWD with good tires is great in snow and it's taken us to some pretty gnarly places.
I can't believe Chevy stopped making them in AWD. Every plumber here in Wyoming had one. Now they are getting 4x4 Sprinters to deal with all the snow we get here. There is a big hole in the line up of vans now with Sprinter being the only 4x4 option. I have a hard time spending that much for a vehicle plus the image of driving a 4x4 Sprinter is a bit hard for me to swallow.
I've done some cabinet build outs for Spinters and Promasters and they are nice rigs to turn in to campers. Certainly easier to build in than older Ford or Chevy vans with all the curves in them.. The Promaster sucks in deep snow though so it's out for me.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Dec 11, 2018 - 10:10am PT
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Compared to a 4x4 Sprinter yeah,
but not compared to the rear wheel drive Transit or Sprinter. There was a version of this published some time ago vs a Sprinter, I think I recall.
No way that was staged, right? There's something different in the way the snow sticks to the tires in the different lanes.
Otherwise - who cares. It's RWD vs FWD - toss some weight in the back - like, say, a camping conversion. All these vans come unbalanced front - rear, you could make a dozen more videos showing potential problems either way.
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