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Lituya
Mountain climber
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Nov 18, 2018 - 05:32pm PT
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You're fine with the current level of political rhetoric? Really?
Fine with the extremely wealthy dominating campaign messaging and the candidates they support?
You're really okay with obscene gerrymandering? It's little more than exploitation by those in power. It's not representative of the people.
No minimum wage increases? It used to be kind of a safety net for the lowest earners. Now, what's the endgame?
Illegal immigration - What's your solution?
Healthcare - What's your solution? Before Obamacare a significant number of Americans royally screwed. You're okay with going back to that?
Guns - Why shouldn't we have reasonably requirements for owners of deadly weapons? Why should guns be to rare exception to just laws?
Edward, I like your balanced positions generally, but your left-of-center wish list came as a surprise. IMO, compromise only works when both side participate--and your list compromises a lot without asking for or suggesting anything in return.
In order:
--Political rhetoric waxes and wanes. Are you suggesting it be restricted in some way? I hope not.
--If the 'extremely wealthy' are, in fact, dominating political discourse they're doing it to help liberals. 2018 Democrats certainly didn't rely on grass-roots donations to outspend Republicans. Gerrymandering happens on both sides. I live in a newly-created district gerrymandered by WA Democrats.
--Minimum wage as a safety net, maybe. But you're suggesting that government mandate a living wage. What nonsense. Zero-sum at best; corrosive more likely.
--Illegal immigration. Deport illegals immediately. Like almost every other nation on earth does. Repeal birthright citizenship, either through SCOTUS clarification of the 14th, or by constitutional amendment. Generous legal immigration continues.
--Healthcare. I'll give Obama props for following the process through Congress--and for trying to make right a system that hadn't been free-market since the 1940s. His work on ending the preexisting condition nonsense was magnificent and struck a balance between the needs of people and fairness to insurance companies. Medicare expansion or an early "buy-in" might work. But this one is complicated.
--Guns. Reasonable requirements? Like what? And what are "we" asking for in return? (I can think of some compromises I'd be willing to make in exchange for a end to the discussion--forever.) Again, we're not talking about privileges here like driving a car or practicing law or medicine. We're talking about a Constitutional right. Do rights have limits? Sure, some do. The devil's in the details. Government doesn't (and shouldn't) know where the guns are or who has them except in extraordinary circumstances.
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Jim Clipper
climber
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Nov 18, 2018 - 05:35pm PT
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^^THAT made my night. this may not belong here, most certainly I don't belong there. On the good foot. If you can't relate, maybe why climb?
[Click to View YouTube Video]
at least skip to hank at 5:30
edit: the picture, I may have been pre-empted
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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Nov 18, 2018 - 05:48pm PT
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^^Engaging in conversation is "taking the bait?" You're a strange fellow, DMT.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Nov 18, 2018 - 06:07pm PT
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Lituya...What should the middle class and poor give in return...? Any ideas what would be fair...?
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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Nov 18, 2018 - 06:14pm PT
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We're talking political ideology here--not economic class. I know, you like to conflate as it suits your worldview, but the two are not congruent. Glasses off for a few, eh?
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Yury
Mountain climber
T.O.
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Nov 18, 2018 - 06:27pm PT
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EdwardT: What do you consider the most important issues facing Americans?
For me:
End Political divide - No clue. Maybe corporate, religious and social leaders get together and negotiate a plan to unite this country. Then tell the politicians to play ball.
Low wages Incrementally raise minimum wages to a reasonable level. Maybe $20/hr by 2028. Partial increases for workers under age 21.
I ask ST progressives to forgive me for using Marxist logic in my response.
A. The root cause of growing polarization of US society and US politics is growing divide between rich and poor.
B. The root causes of growing divide between rich and poor are:
1) globalization, outsourcing, offshoring
2) free trade
3) high immigration of unskilled people putting pressure on job market
Limiting #1, #2 and #3 would lead to healthier job market without any need to increase minimum wage.
A bit more progressive taxation is nice to have but not really mandatory if the above recommendations are implemented.
Progressives' pep talk about cooperation, minimum wage etc. is useless without limiting #1, #2 and #3.
Although limiting #1, #2 and #3 is beneficial to underprivileged Americans, it's detrimental for a standard of life of educated upper class progressives. This is a real reason why they oppose Trump's attempts to limit #1, #2 and #3.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Nov 18, 2018 - 06:51pm PT
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Lituya...You saying you don't have any class...?
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Nov 18, 2018 - 06:57pm PT
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Lituya
Mountain climber
Nov 18, 2018 - 05:48pm PT
^^Engaging in conversation is "taking the bait?"
My post wasn't intended as bait. More of a request to offer your own ideas, instead of simply dismissing mine, You did that. Thanks.
It'd be great if the Tacopolitards would focus on more civil exchange of ideas and less on petty f*#kyouisms.
To all you Tards:
What do you consider the most important issues facing Americans? What would you recommend to improve those issues?
What would be supported by most Americans? Think 60-70%. Not 51%.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Nov 18, 2018 - 07:13pm PT
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Lituya...Don't feel bad...Edward is a master baiter...
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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Nov 18, 2018 - 07:36pm PT
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Lituya...Don't feel bad...Edward is a master baiter... . . . and you're kind of childish.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Nov 18, 2018 - 07:38pm PT
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“It'd be great if the Tacopolitards would focus on more civil exchange of ideas and less on petty f*#kyouisms.”
+1
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John M
climber
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Nov 18, 2018 - 07:51pm PT
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What do you consider the most important issues facing Americans? What would you recommend to improve those issues?
reduce military by 25% ( can be done slowly, can buy off senior staff so that staff doesn't stagnate )
Pay them better so that we can attract better quality.
Take money and start paying down debt.
spend money on fixing infrastructure
Do a better job of fixing healthcare. Get profits out of insurance or go to single payer for basic care and insurance for higher levels of care. ( that should satisfy the elite and allow it to happen )
Get money out of political elections.
......
Thats a start.. there is more.
edit:: And raise taxes on the 1 percent so that we can pay for raking our forests.
( sorry, couldn't resist. you gotta admit that was a pretty stupid thing that Trump said. Besides.. I admitted that Hillary was dumb for calling people "deplorables" )
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 18, 2018 - 09:00pm PT
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Lituya tells RJ off! OH MY!
Nov 18, 2018 - 07:36pm PT
Lituya...Don't feel bad...Edward is a master baiter...
. . . and you're kind of childish
Lituya: I suspect you are the only one here taking this thread seriously. Anyone who considers a political thread serious, on a climbing forum, is "mentally-challenged."
Thank you for your serious posts.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Nov 18, 2018 - 09:26pm PT
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Lituya: I suspect you are the only one here taking this thread seriously. Anyone who considers a political thread serious, on a climbing forum, is "mentally-challenged."
Well, maybe if a relatively few posters could back off from shrieking at each other, more of us would chime in with thoughtful content.
In fact, maybe alongside thinking about important issues facing Americans (and the world), it might be worth engaging in civil argument about issues here, rather than looking for every opportunity to insult those with different viewpoints.
The last few days -- on this thread, at least -- have seen a considerable increase in thoughtful posts, with only a couple of people responding with rote insults. Makes it almost tempting to chime in...
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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Nov 18, 2018 - 09:40pm PT
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I suspect you are the only one here taking this thread seriously.
Well, Fritz, you do start the lion's share of political threads on ST. If you don't want others' opinions, then why do you ask? If you just want echo-chamber/choir responses that validate Fritz, then, by all means, I'll abstain from engaging with you. If you don't like insults--then don't insult. Pretty simple stuff.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Nov 18, 2018 - 10:14pm PT
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I voted for Newsom, johntp. I hope that he doesn't squander the $14 billion surplus that 'Moonbeam'....the Cali Democrat that fiscally 'responsible' Repubs have reviled throughout my lifetime....has left for the state.
Do you really think Cox was going to do anything better for Cali? More to the point: does it really matter to you?
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Nov 19, 2018 - 07:17am PT
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--Illegal immigration. Deport illegals immediately. who is going to pick your crops, mow your lawn, wash your car, clean your toilets? you know, the jobs white people don't want to do.
Government doesn't (and shouldn't) know where the guns are or who has them except in extraordinary circumstances.
lituya, the gubment already knows, too late.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Nov 19, 2018 - 07:19am PT
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 18, 2018 - 09:00pm PT
Lituya tells RJ off! OH MY!
Nov 18, 2018 - 07:36pm PT
Lituya...Don't feel bad...Edward is a master baiter...
. . . and you're kind of childish
Lituya: I suspect you are the only one here taking this thread seriously. Anyone who considers a political thread serious, on a climbing forum, is "mentally-challenged."
Right!
It's only important when you think it's important.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Nov 19, 2018 - 08:30am PT
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who is going to pick your crops, mow your lawn, wash your car, clean your toilets? you know, the jobs white people don't want to do.
Why do we need to mercilessly exploit a group of people to perform these tasks?
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