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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Oct 26, 2018 - 08:24am PT
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Tarbuster...that is a photo I took of Michael Kennedy on Latok 1 in 1978.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Oct 26, 2018 - 08:47am PT
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10 four!
After a bit, I'll scan your article from MOUNTAIN 51 on the Torre Egger climb.
Or maybe link it from the Steve Grossman omnibus, if it's in there.
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Jamesthomsen
Social climber
Mammoth Lakes, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 26, 2018 - 09:37am PT
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Another Nickname - I worked for Dick Kelty starting in 1967 and our story was that he was the first person to put a waist belt on a pack (commercially at least) sometime in the 1950s. His framepack design was revolutionary and Kelty Packs dominated the market for many years.
Yep Jim....we need to organize an "Ex Wild X" reunion.
One of my all time favorite catalog photos was taken by Mike Hoover in Afganistan in the early 80s. THis was when the Taliban were our friends. I wonder if they still use the sleeping bags?
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hooblie
climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
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Oct 26, 2018 - 10:10am PT
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yup, that was my guess ... kelty. maybe the second hype i ever bought into.
the first being "bosco" for stirring into plain old milk to magically make it chocolatey.
my dad drove me up to the gerry store in san francisco with $35
of allowance in a jar to make my first major purchase ... a kelty pack.
thus began my career as a weight transfer evangelist preaching
to any other stooped over boy scout with sore shoulders
edit:but then ...
Following the Kiddie Carrier’s success came the popular CWD (controlled weight distribution) pack in 1963
https://www.outinunder.com/content/gerry-cunningham-gerry
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Oct 26, 2018 - 01:50pm PT
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But, or so it seemed, Kelty was a real holdout in actually padding the waist belts on their frame packs. I think others beat them to the punch on that one?
I recall actual bare, unadulterated seatbelt webbing and a buckle that looked like it could've come out of a car!
One of the leaner waist buckle designs was the one used by Rivendell.
Aluminum, very minimalist and elegant. I think I have one somewhere. Hopefully with my deconstructed Jensen pack.
................................................
From hooblie's Gerry Cunningham link:
“I was in high school, an avid skier, and unhappy with the way an ordinary rucksack swung around on my hack when I skied,” Cunningham said. “So I designed a nice flat pack that would stay close to the body.” Here's an example, though probably of something more like a mid-70s vintage, that would be worth collecting, if you could find one:
James, didn't Wilderness Experience make something similar to this in volume during the mid-70s?
Far less popular than the Klettersack ... larger and without any external pockets, the Chamonix perhaps?
Some earlier Gerry designs, which were quite idiosyncratic, and yes this first one looks like a "nice flat pack":
Classy old-school, but with nice fit and finish:
And as frame packs went, though I never saw one in the wild, this was compelling:
Also from the Gerry link:
Thirteen years in Boulder went by before Dale Johnson (founder of the Frostline kit business) became the Cunninghams’ partner in 1959, and in 1961 George Lamb (later of Alp Sport, Alpine Designs and Camp 7 fame) joined Gerry to oversee sewing operations.
http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/1248089/Frostline-Kits-Who-Sewed-Their-Own-Booties-WBITD
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Jamesthomsen
Social climber
Mammoth Lakes, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 26, 2018 - 02:14pm PT
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Right again Tarbuster, it was the Chamonix. Rather than leather it used "Shelterite" for the bottom and for a crampon patch on top.. This was the same fabric Forrest was using in his first haul bags (1971?) This was the first model Don Lauria bought at West Ridge.
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rmuir
Social climber
From the Time Before the Rocks Cooled.
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Oct 26, 2018 - 02:18pm PT
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Right you are, Roy… That Ski Mart ad—upstream—is quite familiar.
I used my trusty Xacto knife on a few photos—I believe that is Mike Graham sitting on the beach—to do the cut-and-paste, before we took it to the printer to convert it to halftone. I believe we sent the first run of this ad to Mountain Magazine…
Not apropos of WildX, but here's another Ski Mart ad:
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Jamesthomsen
Social climber
Mammoth Lakes, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 26, 2018 - 02:21pm PT
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Yes, Kelty did not think you needed a padded waist belt. The original ones were 1 1/2" stiff webbing. At the time (late 60s) there was no buckle that worked on seatbelt webbing. He did finally introduce little pads you could slip on the belt for your hip bones.
hooblie, the Gerry Kiddie Carriers in the 1960s did not have a waist band either. That was added later. I took one of the Kiddie Carriers and attached it to a cut off Kelty Frame. It worked great!
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Oct 26, 2018 - 02:30pm PT
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Cool, thanks for that Chamonix photo, James.
Not many of those around.
I think this is called your R.O.M. pack or some such? Sort of a midsized spin on the Rivendell Jensen.
I saw a very early version of one of these on eBay a while back. I should have saved photographs.
It had a Shelterite crampon patch on it. Maybe square in the back instead of on top? And maybe lacking the leather lash points.
I'm thinking that was pretty rare.
What I'm not seeing on the example above is the telltale vertical stitching denoting the divided compartments.
[edit]
R.O.R. pack.
Ripoff Of Rivendell! HA!
Here's a fresher example, in what I was calling vintage 70s rescue orange ...
 Larry Horton does post here from time to time.
http://www.supertopo.com/inc/view_profile.php?dcid=Pjo9NT02OyU,
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Oct 26, 2018 - 03:54pm PT
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Per this information in an Alpinist Magazine article by Brad Rassler, on the Jensen Pack, It was being sold commercialy in 1971. It did not have a padded hipbelt, but the hip-belt was a big part of its design & stability. Also the pack did extend around & over your hips & wise users put something soft in the lower compartment for great hip-padding.
In 1970 Jensen's protege Doug Robinson shared the design with the manager of Berkeley's North Face store, Larry Horton. Smitten by such genius, Horton formed Rivendell Mountain Works and began selling the Jensen Pack in 1971. The next year, Chouinard added it to his gear catalog, and word got out: the ergonomic pack allowed climbers and skiers to tackle steep, technical terrain without the awkward sway of an aluminum frame or the roll of a cylindrical sack. Shaped by a brilliant mathematical mind, the Jensen melded with the user's back, but only with careful planning: if packed meticulously, the spineless rig stood tall, its structural pillar formed by the pressure of the contents. Improperly crated, the Jensen puckered and sagged.
Horton sold about a thousand packs during his nine years in business. Neither he nor Jensen ever filed a patent. In the 1970s, Horton attempted to meet the demands of an increasingly sophisticated market by making a bigger, expandable version, but most devotees eventually migrated to internal-frame packs, which, while heavier, were easier and faster to load. Ray Brooks, an erstwhile holdout, says: "I was tired of being the last person out of camp."
I sent Alpinist my vintage Jensen pack for their photos.
http://www.alpinist.com/doc/ALP48/26-tool-users-jensen-pack-rassler
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Oct 26, 2018 - 04:07pm PT
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I'd say the first mass-market version, after the Chouinard Ultima Thule, was the KLetterwerks Terraplane.
First became aware of these about 1980. Maybe the year before.
There were lots of derivatives: JanSport, YackPack, Wild X ROR & etc. But I think this pack really made the whole concept sing.
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Russ Walling
Social climber
from Poofters Froth, Wyoming
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Oct 26, 2018 - 04:13pm PT
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I'm guessing it was "Hypalon" and not "Shelter_rite" used on the those patches. Hypalon is what Forrest used for those blue haul bags BITD
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Jamesthomsen
Social climber
Mammoth Lakes, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 26, 2018 - 04:17pm PT
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The R.O.R. pack was one of the earliest products. It was actually a copy of a Wayne Gregory design, the Phoenix. Wayne started Sunbird packs in 1970 and was near to our retail store (The Mountain Store, Tarzana, CA). We became good friends and sold a lot of his frame packs and soft packs. The story I remember, but may not be true, was that the idea came from Tom Frost, a friend of Wayne's and of Jenson. Wayne closed down Sunbird about the same time we started Wilderness Experience. And at least I believe that we copied his design and patterns with his permission. At some point we were calling it the Rip Off Wayne. But at our first sales meeting the salesmen started calling it the R.O.R.
Probably a stupid idea to call it that, but hey, I was the oldest at 23 and somehow, after a lot of wine, that became the name.
I guess I need to talk with Wayne someday and see what he remembers.
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Oct 26, 2018 - 04:25pm PT
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Another Nickname! Per your request: Yeah I read that. I possibly even saw ONE in the field (?). Article says about 1,000 were made.
So what was first semi "mass market" version, if one could put it that way.
If you count all the packs that "borrowed" the soft-pack technology in the Jensen Pack, which included the Chouinard Ultimate Thule, Yakpak, The Wilderness Experience ROR, & various other very similar packs by JanSport & others, I'm sure the count of packs produced easily goes into the many thousands.
The next major innovations in "soft-pack" technology came with the Lowe internal-frame packs in the mid-1970's.
Here's a May 1973 Summit Magazine ad for the first model of the Lowe Expedition Pack, which became a very popular design.
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Jamesthomsen
Social climber
Mammoth Lakes, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 26, 2018 - 04:38pm PT
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xCon - Story behind the name: The company was started mostly by my wife, in 1971 as a backpacking guide service for kids and named it Wilderness Experience:
Later that year my brother joined us and we started to teach classes in rock climbing at Stoney Point and other things. A man who wanted a deal on some climbing boots offered to make embroidered labels for us in exchange for the deal. We got 300 labels, gave a few to the guides and put the rest in a box.
Then when Greg designed a line of packs for a distributor, who then canceled the order, we put those labels on the samples and took them to West Ridge and Don Lauria. He bought them and we started using those labels.
Most of us and the sales force always called the company Wild X.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Oct 26, 2018 - 04:55pm PT
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Oct 26, 2018 - 06:06pm PT
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Greg Thomsen & Bob Rudolph – fullcircling waist belt:
In the field on Latok I:
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Oct 26, 2018 - 06:23pm PT
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I remember Gregory's Sunbird external frame packs. Interesting that it says below Sunbird was defunct by 1973.
His love for backpack design never waned. In 1970, Wayne Gregory founded his first company called Sunbird, at the age 22 with just 500 dollars of initial capital and specialised in making external framed rucksacks. Sunbird’s first pack, the Hip Hugger, had a number of interesting and highly innovative features. Waist belt arms attached to the bottom of the pack frame made it possible to transfer load from the shoulders to the pelvis. Adjustable shoulder straps meant that the pack could be adapted to fit to the user. Wayne Gregory’s waist belt and shoulder strap systems were way ahead of their time. However, the pack didn’t catch on and Sunbird ceased trading in 1973. http://www.k-g-k.com/en/gregory_40th_anniversary/
I also remember having a catalog in hand circa 1974/1975. It was pretty classy. Hand-drawn, IIRC. I vaguely remember the pack bags were depicted as rust colored? (Perhaps that was just the color scheme of the catalog itself.) As I recall, the pack frame was contemporaneous with and similar to the Alpenlite design. Freestanding, and with forward angling struts to place more of the weight directly on the hip belt. (As stated above.)
I've searched over the years for images or literature pertaining to Sunbird, but have never found any.
Example of an Alpenlite frame:
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Oct 26, 2018 - 06:42pm PT
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So yeah, coming full circle to the Klettersack ...
Here is an Alpenlite rendition, something I never saw:
And this company, Hine Snowbridge, with their hand in it as well:
Perhaps the metal clips and D rings added to the lid closure straps sort of pre-figured the need/desire eventuating in the innovation of side release buckles?
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