Wilderness Experience Klettersack & Donini

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Jamesthomsen

Social climber
Mammoth Lakes, California
Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 22, 2018 - 01:51pm PT
DO YOU STILL OWN A WILDERNESS EXPERIENCE KLETTERSACK?


I left Wilderness Experience 35 years ago and over the years the company disappeared into history. I would like to re-create one of our best-selling packs and one of the outdoor industry's most iconic products: The Klettersack. It has been copied by many companies and is still available from some today.


I need to find one of the early (1970s) Wilderness Experience Klettersacks. If you own one and would like to see it go to this cause, let me know. I will pay $150 for it and send you two new Klettersacks if we complete this project.


Thank you,
Jim Thomsen

Here's a fun video of Jim Donini talking about a 1974 Wilderness Experience Klettersack advertisement:


https://vimeo.com/296499674
johntp

Trad climber
Little Rock and Loving It
Oct 22, 2018 - 02:18pm PT
Had one of those. After almost 25 years of service retired it. It hit the trash can, so can't help you. Today's packs are much better and would not but one with the options out today. Have you looked on ebay?
ec

climber
ca
Oct 22, 2018 - 03:50pm PT
kletterwerks-drei-zip

Dana Gleason Abides
Radish

Trad climber
SeKi, California
Oct 22, 2018 - 04:07pm PT
I think I have one of the brown kinda copper colored ones with the leather bottom. I'll have to see for sure when I get home from work. I'm claiming first dibs!!
Jamesthomsen

Social climber
Mammoth Lakes, California
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 22, 2018 - 04:20pm PT
Hi johntp,

You are right, many of today's packs carry better- with better suspension systems and lightweight fabrics reduce the weight. This is a project to re-create a vintage design. It is interesting that a rucksack manufactured in 1974 could be so durable with a volume of 26 liters and weight less than 24 oz.

I have been following eBay but have yet to see one of the early models.


TAD, that's the Vagabond model. It was a great model and I used one for years. Sorry for no upgrade this time...

Jim
johntp

Trad climber
Little Rock and Loving It
Oct 22, 2018 - 04:27pm PT
It is interesting that a rucksack manufactured in 1974 could be so durable with a volume of 26 liters and weight less than 24 oz.

Love the pack. Might even but one for old times sake. Good luck.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Oct 22, 2018 - 04:31pm PT
This is TNF’s version and yes it is called the Klettersack.

Late 80’s ,USA made and worth looking at for what you are doing.

Has been my hands down favourite since 88. Approaches,Skiing and going minimalist.

Just Saying
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Oct 22, 2018 - 04:37pm PT
Jim: As you may recall, we used to sell a lot of those Klettersacks at Northwestern Mountain Sports in Moscow, Idaho. I think they looked like what the college students thought a rucksack should look like.

Unfortunately, I didn't hang onto one.

It was fun working with you & Greg.

Best wishes, Fritz aka Ray Brooks

Edit!

I just found a company in Hong Kong that is selling Wilderness Experience Klettersacks. Here's their site.
https://www.suburban.com.hk/products/wilderness-experience-kletter-sack-with-leather-royal-blue

And their Klettersack.
Jamesthomsen

Social climber
Mammoth Lakes, California
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 22, 2018 - 04:45pm PT
Hey Fritz!

Those were some wild days.....
Radish

Trad climber
SeKi, California
Oct 22, 2018 - 05:59pm PT
Here's my Kletter Sack that brought me many Happy Memories and some Epics too!
johntp

Trad climber
Little Rock and Loving It
Oct 22, 2018 - 10:55pm PT
Fritz- that is the same one I had; same color. Just seeing it brought back memories.

$212? I'll pass.
i'm gumby dammit

Sport climber
da ow
Oct 22, 2018 - 11:55pm PT
haha
In 1973 in Chatsworth, California, USA, we gave birth to a small workshop called a sewing machine in a space of about 100 square meters. Founder Jim Tomsun had career in this direction at the dawn of outdoor gear development manufacturing. My brother Greg Tomsun returned from a trip of world pilgrimage, and brothers started to manufacture outdoor equipment with this as a machine. It is said that "WILDERNESS EXPERIENCE" = named the experience of the wilderness after starting development based on this Greg experience.
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Oct 23, 2018 - 06:41am PT
That ad worked because I had one too. Long gone though since I was probably 13 or 14 when I got it. Wasn't it a picture of Donini on Catch U?
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Oct 23, 2018 - 07:36am PT
Good job, Fritz, sourcing the Klettersack knockoff!
Looks pretty darn accurate to me.

Here's mine, in use, February 1978, descending after the first ascent of Euhedral, Indian Cove, w/Larry Stone.


The problem with the Wild X Klettersack, was the volume. IIRC it was about 1600 in.³ ... Just bumping to 1800 or larger was a better call.
You couldn't really fit a standard retinue of shoes, harness, water bottle, some food, a little extra clothing ... AND still stuff a rope inside.

If you were the half of the team carrying the rack, then maybe it was okay.
Almost anybody using that pack and carrying the rope held the rope coiled bandolier style, which isn't the best for anything but hiking around on flat ground.

IIRC, there was a slightly more voluminous Wilderness Experience model, which didn't show up much in the shops, maybe it was the Chamonix?

My next rucksack was a Chuck Roast 1800 in.³ model, which made all the difference in carrying capacity.
I could be mistaken on those exact dimensions, but you get the idea.

...........................................................

This, a Karrimor Whillans was a better cragsack, but not widely available in the US:




Here's their site, with some archival stuff:
http://www.tenayatravels.com/Wilderness%20Experience.html

And another thread, by you, James:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/904453/Wilderness-Experience-Chatsworth-California

For vintage soft & internal frame pack nerds, this is of interest:
https://www.carryology.com/bags/bag-collectors-alan-wenker/

 Good luck on your quest and please post up the results when you get it all sewn up!
johntp

Trad climber
Little Rock and Loving It
Oct 23, 2018 - 03:07pm PT
AND still stuff a rope inside.

Always had the rope coiled over the shoulder on approaches. Even the with 150' ropes the rope filled the pack. Rack, shoes, harness and water went in the pack.
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Oct 23, 2018 - 04:53pm PT
John TP,
That's what I meant by bandolier style: over the shoulder.
And so, like you, I found that was the way the rope had to be carried when using the Klettersack.

Jeff,
You might be right about that photograph depicting the approach pitch to Euhedral.
Alternatively, even as I was reading the annotation and posting it up, I thought it might be from the descent of Cracked Actor ...

Ex-con,
I probably should've mentioned that it's in the Indian Cove backcountry.

Euhedral:


Note: some of the place names in this rendering are inconsistent, as they were called something else before we reported the FAs, or were never implemented:


 Jeff, per Bartlett, that picture is either the 5.4 chimney with chockstones, or the "unpleasant" down climb?

 As I am un-roped in the photograph, I have recollected that it is from the descent.
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Oct 23, 2018 - 06:21pm PT
As I'm looking around for some vintage black-and-white/duo-tone Wilderness Experience rucksack catalogs which I'd once seen on the Internet,
I've found these later model Klettersacks on eBay:

$60 plus shipping:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-70s-WILDERNESS-EXPERIENCE-Backpack-Daypack-Chatsworth-Ca-USA-Padded-/263983970095


$34 plus shipping:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vtg-Wilderness-Experience-Denim-Suede-Backpack-Hiking-Camping-Pre-Owned-/153208768480

.............................................................

I like the graphic aesthetic of these earlier ads.

Somewhere there are more scans of different packs done up in this catalog vernacular:

And this one reminds me of the grassroots style with which Chouinard/Great Pacific Ironworks once purveyed their stuff:
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Oct 23, 2018 - 06:33pm PT
I never presented that Indian Cove Backcountry overview artwork to Al Bartlett or anybody else.
I left a wired #8 stopper at the top move of Control.

Hidetaka worked chaos IIRC.
Probably named it something else ...
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Oct 23, 2018 - 06:43pm PT
Wasn't familiar with the problem with the big heucos in the CG.
And never saw the wide crack on the summit block either...
Nick

climber
Dazed, Confused
Oct 23, 2018 - 06:47pm PT
An old companion.
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Oct 23, 2018 - 08:07pm PT
"Retro mountain chic" ...

https://gearpatrol.com/2013/10/24/tested-topo-designs-x-howler-brothers-klettersack/


L.L. Beann on the bandwagon:

https://m.llbean.com/llb/shop/90030?pn=pd&bc=null-816&skCatId=90030
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Oct 23, 2018 - 08:19pm PT
Those were the days...Wild Ex as I recall. Luckily, what happened in Chatsworth stayed in Chatsworth...for the most part.
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Oct 23, 2018 - 08:26pm PT
That ad photo of you on Catch-U was a little corny!
Like, who's leading two pitch Valley climbs with a rucksack, especially back then?

Nuts Only wall comprises some pretty cool rock ...
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Oct 23, 2018 - 08:33pm PT
Corny yes, did it for a photo shoot. People couldn’t see the rope, it was hidden by my body and went around a corner and the Klettersack had foam in it but it was a full on lead climb.
Consider all the ads with a climbing element that were corny AND faked.
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Oct 23, 2018 - 08:42pm PT
Yeah, the hidden rope was an added bonus, for sure. Ha ha.
Obviously, it was the pack loaded with fluff that was corny.

Nevertheless, it was eye-catching, if cryptic. And that video you did recently, explaining the whole set up, was entertaining!
Many readers have wondered about the full story.
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Oct 23, 2018 - 09:34pm PT
Lowe Alpine version, under $100 on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/Lowe-Alpine-Klettersac-30-Pack/dp/B01N7TNLUA?th=1
rmuir

Social climber
From the Time Before the Rocks Cooled.
Oct 24, 2018 - 09:24am PT
When I worked at—and eventually became the buyer for—Ski Mart in Newport Beach back in the early- to mid-seventies, we sold a metric ton of Wild Ex packs. I've owned several Klettersacks over the years, and I've still got a sky blue one—without the leather bottom.

The one remaining Klettersack I still have has been on multiple grade IV and Vs in the Valley, many ice climbs in the Sierra, an expedition on Mt. Foraker in Alaska, and several seasons climbing in Europe. It still goes on day hikes with me in the Whitney region.

At the moment, it sits in the closet in our Cabin in the Whitney Portal but, the next time I'm up there, I'll snap a picture. Would you want it?

Here's a shot with a larger Wilderness Experience pack:

The long-gone red one… RIP:
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Oct 24, 2018 - 10:19am PT
swinging back to packs, In '75? I had a red North Face kletter sack, A Scrambler? I think it was called.
Rick A

climber
Boulder, Colorado
Oct 24, 2018 - 02:30pm PT

I’ve still got mine: it’s where I keep my pile jacket, my Whillans harness, and my Hexes!



Got it from Ski Mart when I worked with Rob.
hooblie

climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
Oct 24, 2018 - 08:21pm PT
By 1980 (or whenever), US pack designers had surpassed the Euros. But not in '71. Not by a long shot.
objection ... exception!given the "suitable load" ... or maybe "tailored" load ... unsurpassed

Rivendell's classy 1975 catalog stated that they had become, in 1971, "the originator of sophisticated soft pack design." Shown at page bottom is their top-of-the-line model, the 4,800 cu. inch, expandible/contractible "Dr. Expando;" ..One reader wrote that the Rivendell Jensen pack has become the "most copied pack of all time," and pointed out that one company (Wilderness Experience) even named their soft pack the "ROR," translating to "Rip-off-Rivendell."
http://www.oregonphotos.com/Don-Jensen.html


http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/818390/Don-Jensen
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Oct 25, 2018 - 07:58am PT
J Do, breaking two of your rules here, all for the sake of commerce, WTF?

#1) carrying more gear than you need - what are we to make of all of your potty training threads about such things?

#2) slab climbing??? I thought real men only climb cracks … seriously inconsistent mentoring here.

(I may have to consider shelving my Splitter Camp merit badge …)

“Splitter Camps are designed to demystify crack climbing,” says camp director Jim Donini. While Splitter Camps are not for first-time climbers, they are intended to broaden horizons for sport, gym and occasional crack climbers. “When you learn techniques unique to crack climbing, you begin to look at face moves and plastic in a much different light,” encourages Donini.
https://www.climbing.com/news/crack-yourself-up-at-splitter-camp/


Oh well, all good-natured ribbing aside,
How many of us TacoBenders™ have climbed either of the two routes at this un-heralded Yosemite crag, Nuts Only Cliff?

I went up there once, but it was too late in the day to start up either of these fine routes … or fine looking routes, I should say:
(IIRC, the approach took more time than anticipated, and we didn't navigate the most direct route)


 These are not your run-of-the-mill slab climbs ...
 The wall is steep, striated, and the main features are cracks.
 The face sections have NO bolts.

Catch-U FA: Steve Wunsch & John Bragg, 1974
W'allnuts FA: Steve Wunsch & Jim Donini, 1973
Jamesthomsen

Social climber
Mammoth Lakes, California
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 25, 2018 - 04:53pm PT
Tarbuster - First off you said the black and white catalog photo reminded you of the grassroots style that Chouinard used......and it should. That catalog was created by some Chouinard employees: Kris McDivitt, Val Franco and others. In those days Wilderness Experience made the Chouinard packs (except for the Ultimate Thule which was way too hard for us.)
Thank you for the eBay link, that's the first I've seen with a Cordura bottom and I ordered it.
Also interesting that the FA people on CatchU and W'allnuts were John Bragg, Steve Wunsch and Jim Donini ..... all salesmen for Wilderness Experience. We were the first outdoor company (in partnership with Snow Lion) that hired all active climbers as our sales force. What an incredible group of people to work with!

Robs......Thank You! I would love it!

Another Nickname - Wilderness Experience got it's start when the USA distributor for Sacs Millet, after having lots of delivery problems, asked us to create a line of packs he could sell instead. We did, but when we showed him the new line he said that Sacs Millet were going to guarantee good delivery so he didn't need them. Greg took them to West Ridge Sports and Don Lauria was the first person to order some. Thanks again Don!

And Finally, Jim Donini.... per our agreement, the part of our interview discussing what went on at the Drake Hotel will not be made public until 50 years after your death.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Oct 25, 2018 - 04:59pm PT
Damn!! taco gold, thanks
Jamesthomsen

Social climber
Mammoth Lakes, California
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 25, 2018 - 05:32pm PT
Fritz,

Thanks for the Hong Kong Klettersack photo. These are made by a Japanese company who did legally obtain the trademark when it was not renewed by one of the companies later owners (maybe K2 or Marmot.) They are well made, but very expensive.

I'm gumby dammit - The quote sounds accurate....Greg will be excited to learn he was on a Pilgrimage and not a broke climber traveling the world.

Just to set the story right, here's Greg's view of his around the world trip:

https://vimeo.com/151722445

Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Oct 25, 2018 - 06:01pm PT
James,

I'm sure I speak for many when I say it truly is an honor to have you here on the forum.
Also, much so on a personal level.

I was gifted one of those old black Singer sewing machines in 1977 on my 17th birthday, and was always interested in cobbling together my own stuff, as well as modifying everything in sight. I could never leave well enough alone: I'm sure you can relate!

That Chuck Roast rucksack I mentioned up thread: first it got a wraparound waist belt from a JanSport frame pack. I should have stopped there … then dewlaps, but those came off, because I couldn't figure out how to pattern them in such a way that I had a true wraparound design. So the holes got plugged up. Later it got a lid from the Chouinard Baltoro.

As a vintage enthusiast, the early to late 70s is my favorite era. Pretty much everything before fastex buckles. When we were in our teens, my earliest climbing partner and I, starting out in 1974, we didn't feel so much like consumers of all of those soft goods, but more like participants and fans. My first rucksack cost six dollars. It was private labeled for a European guy who had a shop called Mountain ‘N Air, in La Canada California. The body was made of yellow cotton duck, single buckle lid -- and it had those old school stamped felt padded shoulder straps, or maybe they were cut with pinking shears. The local mountain shop was a place to socialize and learn. The division between manufacturer/purveyor and purchaser was more fluid.

Everything about that time, the very grassroots nature of all of the players, the lean, simple, homespun but artful graphic layout of the advertisements, and the simplistic, lightweight aesthetic applied to all of the gear: there was a coziness to it. I still like that color palette: forest green, rescue orange, and French blue. It seemed much more like a family than it did like commerce, you know? Of course you do! You were at the epicenter of that sensibility.

That's an interesting tidbit: that you declined to produce the Ultimate Thule, due to the complexity.

‘Had a number of Snow Lion offerings. They were big into Polarguard. Innovations on their sleeping bags like the footsack were compelling. That box baffled Behring parka was something else. And Galen Rowell lent his photography to one of their catalogs, as I recall? Moonrise over the Eastern Sierra or something.

So you speak to cross pollination between outdoor specialty companies. It sure felt that way. Wilderness Experience, Sierra Designs, Alpine Designs, Class 5, Camp 7, Holubar, Gerry, Rivendell … Fer crissakes, I remember when The North Face was young! The American face of the industry was all of a piece.

Happy trails!
Roy
Jamesthomsen

Social climber
Mammoth Lakes, California
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 25, 2018 - 06:30pm PT
Roy,

Yes, those were incredible times. We were all young and convinced we could run companies. I'm still amazed at the amount of money we were able to borrow, being under 25, long hair, beards. And the trade shows were the gathering place. At the show we would try to convince retailers to buy our stuff, but at night all the manufacturers hung out together...we were all friends and it's amazing today that so many of my good friends are from those days.

Mountain 'N Air was owned by Gilberto d'Urso (and still is, but now he sells and publishes books.) Gil was the first Wilderness Experience Sales Representative - 1973. We was from Brazil. I just saw him at the premiere of the Fred Beckey movie.

Galen Rowell took many of the photos in our early catalogs...we even used him and Barbara as models.
Jamesthomsen

Social climber
Mammoth Lakes, California
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 25, 2018 - 08:12pm PT
Sport Chalet was one of our first dealers (after West Ridge.) My guess is late 1973 or early 1974.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Oct 25, 2018 - 08:19pm PT
When is the reunion? While we’re still here...I hope. It won’t be like Batista’s in Vegas or Larry’s place in Venice beach....unfortunately for us, 9:00 pm is the new midnight.
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Oct 26, 2018 - 08:02am PT
Here you go, Robs Muir, an advertisement from your alma mater.
(Okay, I know you also went to actual school ...)

Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Oct 26, 2018 - 08:13am PT
More Wilderness Experience goodies from the way back machine.
That is, the way back machine of Jack Roberts' collection of MOUNTAIN magazines.
Thanks again, Pam!

And here's J Do, once again, or perhaps one of his compatriots ...
This time not pulling any puns whatsoever with the gear totage program:

 Might we please get an ID on the climber and the route? How about a bedtime story?
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Oct 26, 2018 - 08:24am PT
Tarbuster...that is a photo I took of Michael Kennedy on Latok 1 in 1978.
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Oct 26, 2018 - 08:47am PT
10 four!

After a bit, I'll scan your article from MOUNTAIN 51 on the Torre Egger climb.
Or maybe link it from the Steve Grossman omnibus, if it's in there.
Jamesthomsen

Social climber
Mammoth Lakes, California
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 26, 2018 - 09:37am PT
Another Nickname - I worked for Dick Kelty starting in 1967 and our story was that he was the first person to put a waist belt on a pack (commercially at least) sometime in the 1950s. His framepack design was revolutionary and Kelty Packs dominated the market for many years.

Yep Jim....we need to organize an "Ex Wild X" reunion.


One of my all time favorite catalog photos was taken by Mike Hoover in Afganistan in the early 80s. THis was when the Taliban were our friends. I wonder if they still use the sleeping bags?



hooblie

climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
Oct 26, 2018 - 10:10am PT
yup, that was my guess ... kelty. maybe the second hype i ever bought into.
the first being "bosco" for stirring into plain old milk to magically make it chocolatey.

my dad drove me up to the gerry store in san francisco with $35
of allowance in a jar to make my first major purchase ... a kelty pack.

thus began my career as a weight transfer evangelist preaching
to any other stooped over boy scout with sore shoulders

edit:but then ...

Following the Kiddie Carrier’s success came the popular CWD (controlled weight distribution) pack in 1963

https://www.outinunder.com/content/gerry-cunningham-gerry
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Oct 26, 2018 - 01:50pm PT
But, or so it seemed, Kelty was a real holdout in actually padding the waist belts on their frame packs. I think others beat them to the punch on that one?
I recall actual bare, unadulterated seatbelt webbing and a buckle that looked like it could've come out of a car!

One of the leaner waist buckle designs was the one used by Rivendell.
Aluminum, very minimalist and elegant. I think I have one somewhere. Hopefully with my deconstructed Jensen pack.

................................................

From hooblie's Gerry Cunningham link:
“I was in high school, an avid skier, and unhappy with the way an ordinary rucksack swung around on my hack when I skied,” Cunningham said. “So I designed a nice flat pack that would stay close to the body.”
Here's an example, though probably of something more like a mid-70s vintage, that would be worth collecting, if you could find one:

James, didn't Wilderness Experience make something similar to this in volume during the mid-70s?
Far less popular than the Klettersack ... larger and without any external pockets, the Chamonix perhaps?


Some earlier Gerry designs, which were quite idiosyncratic, and yes this first one looks like a "nice flat pack":

Classy old-school, but with nice fit and finish:

And as frame packs went, though I never saw one in the wild, this was compelling:

Also from the Gerry link:

Thirteen years in Boulder went by before Dale Johnson (founder of the Frostline kit business) became the Cunninghams’ partner in 1959, and in 1961 George Lamb (later of Alp Sport, Alpine Designs and Camp 7 fame) joined Gerry to oversee sewing operations.

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/1248089/Frostline-Kits-Who-Sewed-Their-Own-Booties-WBITD
Jamesthomsen

Social climber
Mammoth Lakes, California
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 26, 2018 - 02:14pm PT
Right again Tarbuster, it was the Chamonix. Rather than leather it used "Shelterite" for the bottom and for a crampon patch on top.. This was the same fabric Forrest was using in his first haul bags (1971?) This was the first model Don Lauria bought at West Ridge.

rmuir

Social climber
From the Time Before the Rocks Cooled.
Oct 26, 2018 - 02:18pm PT
Right you are, Roy… That Ski Mart ad—upstream—is quite familiar.

I used my trusty Xacto knife on a few photos—I believe that is Mike Graham sitting on the beach—to do the cut-and-paste, before we took it to the printer to convert it to halftone. I believe we sent the first run of this ad to Mountain Magazine…

Not apropos of WildX, but here's another Ski Mart ad:
Jamesthomsen

Social climber
Mammoth Lakes, California
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 26, 2018 - 02:21pm PT
Yes, Kelty did not think you needed a padded waist belt. The original ones were 1 1/2" stiff webbing. At the time (late 60s) there was no buckle that worked on seatbelt webbing. He did finally introduce little pads you could slip on the belt for your hip bones.

hooblie, the Gerry Kiddie Carriers in the 1960s did not have a waist band either. That was added later. I took one of the Kiddie Carriers and attached it to a cut off Kelty Frame. It worked great!
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Oct 26, 2018 - 02:30pm PT
Cool, thanks for that Chamonix photo, James.
Not many of those around.

I think this is called your R.O.M. pack or some such? Sort of a midsized spin on the Rivendell Jensen.
I saw a very early version of one of these on eBay a while back. I should have saved photographs.


It had a Shelterite crampon patch on it. Maybe square in the back instead of on top? And maybe lacking the leather lash points.
I'm thinking that was pretty rare.

What I'm not seeing on the example above is the telltale vertical stitching denoting the divided compartments.

[edit]
R.O.R. pack.
Ripoff Of Rivendell! HA!

Here's a fresher example, in what I was calling vintage 70s rescue orange ...

 Larry Horton does post here from time to time.
http://www.supertopo.com/inc/view_profile.php?dcid=Pjo9NT02OyU,
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Oct 26, 2018 - 03:54pm PT
Per this information in an Alpinist Magazine article by Brad Rassler, on the Jensen Pack, It was being sold commercialy in 1971. It did not have a padded hipbelt, but the hip-belt was a big part of its design & stability. Also the pack did extend around & over your hips & wise users put something soft in the lower compartment for great hip-padding.

In 1970 Jensen's protege Doug Robinson shared the design with the manager of Berkeley's North Face store, Larry Horton. Smitten by such genius, Horton formed Rivendell Mountain Works and began selling the Jensen Pack in 1971. The next year, Chouinard added it to his gear catalog, and word got out: the ergonomic pack allowed climbers and skiers to tackle steep, technical terrain without the awkward sway of an aluminum frame or the roll of a cylindrical sack. Shaped by a brilliant mathematical mind, the Jensen melded with the user's back, but only with careful planning: if packed meticulously, the spineless rig stood tall, its structural pillar formed by the pressure of the contents. Improperly crated, the Jensen puckered and sagged.

Horton sold about a thousand packs during his nine years in business. Neither he nor Jensen ever filed a patent. In the 1970s, Horton attempted to meet the demands of an increasingly sophisticated market by making a bigger, expandable version, but most devotees eventually migrated to internal-frame packs, which, while heavier, were easier and faster to load. Ray Brooks, an erstwhile holdout, says: "I was tired of being the last person out of camp."

I sent Alpinist my vintage Jensen pack for their photos.

http://www.alpinist.com/doc/ALP48/26-tool-users-jensen-pack-rassler

Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Oct 26, 2018 - 04:00pm PT
http://www.rivendellmountainworks.com/shop/the-jensen-pack-rmw-heritage-packs-300-460/
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Oct 26, 2018 - 04:07pm PT
I'd say the first mass-market version, after the Chouinard Ultima Thule, was the KLetterwerks Terraplane.
First became aware of these about 1980. Maybe the year before.
 There were lots of derivatives: JanSport, YackPack, Wild X ROR & etc. But I think this pack really made the whole concept sing.
Russ Walling

Social climber
from Poofters Froth, Wyoming
Oct 26, 2018 - 04:13pm PT
I'm guessing it was "Hypalon" and not "Shelter_rite" used on the those patches. Hypalon is what Forrest used for those blue haul bags BITD
Jamesthomsen

Social climber
Mammoth Lakes, California
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 26, 2018 - 04:17pm PT
The R.O.R. pack was one of the earliest products. It was actually a copy of a Wayne Gregory design, the Phoenix. Wayne started Sunbird packs in 1970 and was near to our retail store (The Mountain Store, Tarzana, CA). We became good friends and sold a lot of his frame packs and soft packs. The story I remember, but may not be true, was that the idea came from Tom Frost, a friend of Wayne's and of Jenson. Wayne closed down Sunbird about the same time we started Wilderness Experience. And at least I believe that we copied his design and patterns with his permission. At some point we were calling it the Rip Off Wayne. But at our first sales meeting the salesmen started calling it the R.O.R.
Probably a stupid idea to call it that, but hey, I was the oldest at 23 and somehow, after a lot of wine, that became the name.

I guess I need to talk with Wayne someday and see what he remembers.
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Oct 26, 2018 - 04:25pm PT
Another Nickname! Per your request:
Yeah I read that. I possibly even saw ONE in the field (?). Article says about 1,000 were made.

So what was first semi "mass market" version, if one could put it that way.


If you count all the packs that "borrowed" the soft-pack technology in the Jensen Pack, which included the Chouinard Ultimate Thule, Yakpak, The Wilderness Experience ROR, & various other very similar packs by JanSport & others, I'm sure the count of packs produced easily goes into the many thousands.

The next major innovations in "soft-pack" technology came with the Lowe internal-frame packs in the mid-1970's.

Here's a May 1973 Summit Magazine ad for the first model of the Lowe Expedition Pack, which became a very popular design.
Jamesthomsen

Social climber
Mammoth Lakes, California
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 26, 2018 - 04:38pm PT
xCon - Story behind the name: The company was started mostly by my wife, in 1971 as a backpacking guide service for kids and named it Wilderness Experience:



Later that year my brother joined us and we started to teach classes in rock climbing at Stoney Point and other things. A man who wanted a deal on some climbing boots offered to make embroidered labels for us in exchange for the deal. We got 300 labels, gave a few to the guides and put the rest in a box.

Then when Greg designed a line of packs for a distributor, who then canceled the order, we put those labels on the samples and took them to West Ridge and Don Lauria. He bought them and we started using those labels.

Most of us and the sales force always called the company Wild X.
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Oct 26, 2018 - 04:55pm PT
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Oct 26, 2018 - 06:06pm PT
Greg Thomsen & Bob Rudolph – fullcircling waist belt:


In the field on Latok I:
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Oct 26, 2018 - 06:23pm PT
I remember Gregory's Sunbird external frame packs. Interesting that it says below Sunbird was defunct by 1973.
His love for backpack design never waned. In 1970, Wayne Gregory founded his first company called Sunbird, at the age 22 with just 500 dollars of initial capital and specialised in making external framed rucksacks. Sunbird’s first pack, the Hip Hugger, had a number of interesting and highly innovative features. Waist belt arms attached to the bottom of the pack frame made it possible to transfer load from the shoulders to the pelvis. Adjustable shoulder straps meant that the pack could be adapted to fit to the user. Wayne Gregory’s waist belt and shoulder strap systems were way ahead of their time. However, the pack didn’t catch on and Sunbird ceased trading in 1973.
http://www.k-g-k.com/en/gregory_40th_anniversary/

I also remember having a catalog in hand circa 1974/1975. It was pretty classy. Hand-drawn, IIRC. I vaguely remember the pack bags were depicted as rust colored? (Perhaps that was just the color scheme of the catalog itself.) As I recall, the pack frame was contemporaneous with and similar to the Alpenlite design. Freestanding, and with forward angling struts to place more of the weight directly on the hip belt. (As stated above.)

 I've searched over the years for images or literature pertaining to Sunbird, but have never found any.

Example of an Alpenlite frame:
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Oct 26, 2018 - 06:42pm PT
So yeah, coming full circle to the Klettersack ...
Here is an Alpenlite rendition, something I never saw:

And this company, Hine Snowbridge, with their hand in it as well:

 Perhaps the metal clips and D rings added to the lid closure straps sort of pre-figured the need/desire eventuating in the innovation of side release buckles?
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Oct 27, 2018 - 07:34am PT
Another Nickname! I found a picture of a Lowe Expedition pack, with padded waistbelt, in a set of photos Steve Grossman posted on their 1972 catalog.



Hine-Snowbridge made nice packs & as a 1970's outdoor retailer I carried some of them in my store. Their major business was touring bike packs under the Kirkland name.
Jamesthomsen

Social climber
Mammoth Lakes, California
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 27, 2018 - 07:37pm PT
Tarbuster,

I can't find a photo of a Sunbird pack (I'll ask Wayne Gregory if he has any photos) but his design was not a "stand up" model. Alpenlite had the stand up design. Wayne believed that the "wings" needed to be adjusted to the person. He even made a large pair of wooden calibers to measure the customer's hip, then we would set the wings and drill a hole through them and the frame and put in a clevis pin. Not something today's retailer could easily do.

He also made "retrofit" wings that would fit a Kelty frame. Here's a photo of Greg (we ran an ad in the Sierra CLub bulletin to have people come in and have their Kelty's "improved."




Dana's designs at Kletterwerks and Dana Designs are excellent. It's a fun fact that he also worked for Wilderness Experience.
yedi

Trad climber
Stanwood,wa
Oct 27, 2018 - 09:04pm PT
Still have and use my blue klettersack I purchased from Red Baron bicycle works in Costa Mesa, 1975. The zipper is broken and the label is worn out and it's been repaired a few times but has been on many adventures over the years. I had a WE Alpinest I used for years late 70's through the 80's with the internal alum staves. My climbing partner used to call it the "widerness experiment"
hooblie

climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
Oct 27, 2018 - 09:28pm PT
that's some stuff ^^^ right there jamesthomsen.
yedi

Trad climber
Stanwood,wa
Oct 28, 2018 - 07:26am PT
Just a side note. The fellow who opened Red Baron Bicycle Works expanded and later opened up the big bicycle shop near downtown Huntington Beach. That shop would go on to sponsor those "race across america" bicycle races.
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Oct 28, 2018 - 08:21am PT
Okay, thanks for the clarification James.
I had not remembered that detail about the Sunbird frames.

Now, looking at the Sunbird approach with those sideways U shaped frame extensions, we can see that Jansport most likely, or clearly, copied that innovation for their D series model packs.
D3 & D4 are the model designations I recall.

A later example, from Amazon of all places:
I wouldn't have guessed they made these as early as 1972, as stated by Amazon:
Originally introduced in 1972, the D2 pack has withstood the test of time and now has modern features and comforts.

I had a Jansport with a more conventional frame and waist belt set up, and bought one of their kits to retrofit it with that style of hip belt attachment system, circa 1975.
Wow: I was never aware that Gregory made those retrofit kits for Kelty.
Jamesthomsen

Social climber
Mammoth Lakes, California
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 28, 2018 - 12:26pm PT
Actually JanSport did the D-Series hip carry with a full waist band before Sunbird. It was designed by Murry Pletz, one of the original founders of JanSport (he actually won a cash prize from Alcoa Aluminum in 1967 for "the best new use of aluminum tube" for his first frame pack.) The D-Series frame packs were first sold in 1969. I was working for Kelty when they tried to convince Dick Kelty to sell them...no way.


Here's where my memory fails me...I think the first full waist belt suspension was done by a man in San Diego, Andy Drollinger ??? I also think he was the founder of A-16. But I'm not sure.
Jamesthomsen

Social climber
Mammoth Lakes, California
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 28, 2018 - 12:28pm PT
swellymon - No idea who is in that photo....but in the early 70s we all looked like that.
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Oct 28, 2018 - 01:16pm PT
What I didn't like about my JanSport frame pack: it was rather noisy, and squeaked while walking down the trail!

Okay, more archival stuff on a pair of those Wild X sales representatives:
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Oct 28, 2018 - 01:42pm PT
Yeah, James, 1969-1972 is before my time as an outdoor enthusiast.
It is both surprising and interesting that JanSport was that far along with the development of sophisticated hip loading systems so early on in the scheme of things.
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Oct 28, 2018 - 02:40pm PT
Concerning frame packs, one of the differences I saw between Kelty and JanSport, was that Kelty used a very stiff closed cell foam in their shoulder straps, whereas the foam in the JanSport packs, whether closed or open cell, was much less rigid and more plush.

To me this seemed to show that Kelty fit and finish was all about integrity and designed to do the right thing when under load and in the field, whereas the JanSport padding seemed more about making a comfortable first impression inside the shop.

Kelty was more stolid, going with what was proven and thought to be most durable, for instance, toothed metal zippers way out into the evolution of their packs when others were going with YKK coil zippers. JanSport the flashy innovator; Kelty the hard-boiled and proven market leader.
Jamesthomsen

Social climber
Mammoth Lakes, California
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 28, 2018 - 02:45pm PT
JanSport was very innovative in the late 60s/early 70s and in the industry they do get credit for creating the dome tent (and not getting a patent on it.)

The original JanSport group was also wild and fun. In the 70s, at the major trade shows the biggest parties were by the "sporting goods" companies and the ski companies. Us lowly outdoor guys ("wood chucks" to the industry) were stuck in the back rooms. In 1975 Wilderness Experience, Lowe Alpine and JanSport joined forces and created our own joint party, The Shake and Bake. It became the party to try to get ticket to.

JanSport in the 80s found that, first, frame pack sales continued to decline and it was hard to compete in the high end mountaineering equipment market, so made the decision to focus on daypacks. I worked for JanSport in the 90s and we were then selling between 7 and 9 million daypacks a year....so it was probably the right decision financially.
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Oct 28, 2018 - 02:50pm PT
What I initially liked about JanSport frame packs where there pack bag designs.
Particularly, the frontloading, half-moon zipper, rather than the more traditional top loading approach.

Then I got all into simpler stuff, and bought a very basic REI quasi-knockoff of the Kelty Serac. The REI model just had one main bag, in addition to the zippered sleeping bag compartment.

The Serac made sense, in that it had an enclosed sleeping bag compartment.

I also admired this North Face design of a similar nature, because it looked so well sorted out:

 Oh yeah, ha ha. One of those JanSport waist belts found its way onto the REI frame.
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Oct 29, 2018 - 12:31pm PT
James,

Here's the history on Andy Drollinger, A16, and the first wraparound Hiphugger suspension system (which you referenced above), circa 1965 ... 1965!
I don't know why I didn't think to link to this website earlier.

http://www.oregonphotos.com/A16-pg1.html
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Oct 29, 2018 - 02:30pm PT
Good work there, Mr. Nickname!
Looks a bit more like a low back platform than an actual belt, but still quite notable in its apparent goal of anatomical load distribution.

It looks like Jack Stephenson, of Stephenson's Warmlite, stretches the wraparound hip belt back to the late 50s, with the Jack Pack.
Go here for the skinny and an image; the author is adamant no photos be transferred, so I'm obliging that wish:

http://www.oregonphotos.com/Warmlite2.html#anchor4337

You'll read that Wayne Gregory credits Jack Stephenson as one of the more intelligent pioneers of the "hip carry" system.
Jamesthomsen

Social climber
Mammoth Lakes, California
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 29, 2018 - 05:23pm PT
Yep, Jack Stephenson was one of the first. His sleeping bags were incredible, maybe even state of the art today.
I used to visit his home/factory often, Kelty was, I believe, his only retail dealer and I would pick up bags as they were available. We had many discussions about equipment (From dealing with customers at Kelty I tried to convince Jack that having zipper pulls on the inside of a bag was necessary, but he was convinced that was needless extra weight.

I also used his tents a lot and even though he had great engineering diagrams and explanations about how they would not condense inside they always did for me:


I also used his frame packs a couple of times and I don't remember much...I was probably too convinced that Kelty was the best to honestly evaluate them. This are photo from my collection:


Since those days I have probably visited more than 400 sewing factories....and his remains the only one where the sewing machine operators were usually naked.
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Oct 29, 2018 - 08:04pm PT
This is a good read:
https://www.outinunder.com/content/brief-history-foundation-sierra-designs
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Oct 29, 2018 - 08:06pm PT
Balti porter in 1978
Balti porter in 2016

They have access to the latest technology from the climbers they service but choose to strap whatever you give them to carry on crude, nanf fashioned, frames.

I was with WildEx during the historic shift from internal to external packs. Wilde made some of the first internal frame packs. They were well built and sensibly designed. Every evolution leads to excesses....along came overbuilt nine pound packs from Dana Designs and Gregory.
Now everything is minimalist and lightweight....thank god.
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Oct 30, 2018 - 08:36pm PT
MOUNTAIN 51, September/October 1976

Cover shot by Jim Donini, of John Bragg climbing a difficult ice runnel on the lower section of Cerro Torre's East Face,
Below the first snowfield, during the first ascent of Torre Egger.

The pack this man is wearing below, during the FA of Torre Egger, looks much to me like a Kletterwerks design?


Doing my best impersonation of that MOUNTAIN 51 cover shot, Mendell Couloir, Sierra Nevada, fall of 1981:

The overpants and the rucksack I made myself. The pants were a double layer construct of lightweight coated taffeta on the outside, and breathable ripstop on the inside.
Maybe there was some wicking happening there. They seemed to work pretty well.

The blue cordura pack was a one-off, which I designed and produced. I liked the shape and the volume quite a lot. Sold it to a Swiss guy.

...................

The view from my sewing machine, looking out over the cutting table, Marshall Colorado, early 90s:

 If you look on the left wall of the shop, you'll see the trim flashing leftover from the stamping of a half-dozen Forrest ice ax heads.
 That curiosity, the welding gear, and the ice ax collection belonged to Paul Sibley, founder, with Bill Roos, of Colorado Nut.
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Oct 31, 2018 - 08:54pm PT
Well, before this thread fades into the sunset,
I guess we ought to touch base with Chouinard's endorsement of the tumpline.

The skinny:
On the first day out, in the jungle near Biratnigar, I could only carry 15 pounds for an hour before my neck felt like it was ready to go into a spasm. After two weeks I was carrying about 30 pounds for three or four hours a day. Finally, up near Makalu, winter set in. All the passes were covered with deep snow and I was able to break trail all day with a 50-pound load supported by my crude tump line. My back problems had disappeared. For three months after the expedition I suffered no back pain at all. Then it started bothering me again, despite my active life of surfing, tennis, climbing and swimming. Later, on an expedition to Ecuador, I used the tump line again, with the same good results. Since then, I’ve carried every load over 25 pounds with the tump line. Knowing what I know now, I would never go back to conventional packs, with or without my back problems.

The full text:
https://www.patagonia.com/blog/2011/08/on-tumplines/

 I remember when he started marketing these circa 1980. This is the first time I've read a full treatise.
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Nov 1, 2018 - 07:41am PT
Thanks Tar for the tump-down. I remember Chouinard pushing them, but they never took off at retail. There was jest tump-thing about them that folks in the U.S. didn't like.

They were somewhat more popular among folks moving heavy loads in Nepal, when I was there in 2005.



Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Nov 1, 2018 - 07:56am PT
Yeah, Fritz, I gather most of us thought the Chouinard tumpline move was nuts!
If you see his film 180° South, he's toting an old Lowe pack, and using a tumpline. Reading that Patagonia page is a bit more exculpatory.

BTW: allowing for the fact that I am the color sensitive guy, one of those links you offered up from the Mountain Paraphernalia thread led me to the color designation Sierra Designs gave to some of their stuff. You are correct, their tents came simply in blue.

But packs were available in what they called Royal:
https://www.outinunder.com/content/historic-sierra-designs-catalog-1972

 The Summit pack model looks pretty slick, and might be worth collecting.
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Nov 1, 2018 - 08:07am PT
Here's the one Sierra Designs piece that I own:
ron gomez

Trad climber
Nov 1, 2018 - 10:25am PT
Persona briefcase, still in daily use! Bombproof and impeccable detail to quality. Full leather. Great job Roy!
Peace
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Nov 1, 2018 - 10:45am PT
The only piece of Sierra Designs gear I've hung onto all these years is one of their 60/40 jackets. They were beautifully made, with double-layer construction throughout & were quite expensive in the early 70's, when they were the height of outdoor campus fashion.





They were also useless as tits on a boar in serious rain, when they would absorb lots of water into the 40% cotton & then start leaking. Gawd knows why I've kept it all these years?

Another interesting thing to note on this jacket is: no outside name or logo. I think Patagonia may have been the one that first started putting their name on the outside of clothing?
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Nov 1, 2018 - 11:02am PT
That's a classic piece, Fritz!
I'm one step ahead of you, check out this history on the product, which I read a couple of days ago:
https://www.outinunder.com/content/story-sierra-designs-6040-mountain-parka

Even BITD, I wasn't buying it, so to speak.
Fairly heavy, bulky to pack, water repellent at best.

I also didn't like the whole long wasted parka approach.
I had an REI knockoff which I cut down so that it was more of a waistcoat length, gone now.

Pretty darn iconic in orange though. Probably would keep one in the closet if I had it!

The original:

A modern version, cut down, just the way I would want it:

The Japanese go absolutely crazy over this heritage gear stuff.
You can find knockoffs of lots of these goodies, especially that iconic Sierra Designs Daytripper teardrop pack.

I envision cocktail parties and weekend outings, with dozens of Japanese enthusiasts, all sporting the 60/40 parka and the daytripper ... all knockoffs, except for the lucky few with the real stuff, whom they all bow to ...
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Nov 1, 2018 - 11:05am PT
BTW, thanks Ron, for posting up that PERSONA briefcase.
Totally forgot you had one!
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Nov 1, 2018 - 12:31pm PT
Thanks Tar & Tad!

Here's the 60/40 jacket copy from the iconic 1972 Sierra Designs catalog shot in the ghost town of Bodie, CA, during the winter. Note the $38.50 price, which was a lot of money in 1972.


I recall that Wilderness Experience also had a 60/40 jacket, I think???

Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Nov 1, 2018 - 05:46pm PT
I don't remember any Wild X garment offerings.
James, please help us out here?

The most substantial stuff I recall being built by Wilderness Experience were the 1980s alpinist sacks, cylindrical in design, color scheme in red.
Haven't found any of those recorded online.

(Could be I'm recalling TNF stuff, but I don't think so.)

Anyhow, some eye candy to keep it going:
Jamesthomsen

Social climber
Mammoth Lakes, California
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 3, 2018 - 02:52pm PT
Tarbuster... Cool, original pack (all metal buckles!)

So, here's some apparel photos:


In this catalog photo Greg's face doesn't look great. That's because one night, after a little too many drinks, someone looked at the 60 foot long cutting table and decided if you took a roll of Polarguard and ran part way you could slide for 40 feet. Greg did, except hit a metal pole, broke his nose and ended with a black eye. But the catalog photo shoot was the next day.


Jim Donini....famous model.






Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Nov 3, 2018 - 05:15pm PT
I have a Gerry tumpline from WBITD that was designed to add to work with a frame pack or rucksac as best I have been able to determine by the length of the strap that comes with it. It has a late 50s/early 60s buckle system.
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Nov 3, 2018 - 08:32pm PT
Kim Schmitz!

 Now we just need documentation of the rucksacks from this era?
 IIRC, this is when everything got sorted out on a technical level – like the item he is carrying.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Nov 3, 2018 - 09:01pm PT
Pretty sure that Chouinard sold a Tump Line at one point during the 70s when it was possible to move in more than one direction and still make progress.
Combine Belayer's Neck and a Tump Line and you arrive at the source of the obscurity. Taking a little weight off of your rucksack shoulder straps back when they were a pain makes some sense.
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Nov 4, 2018 - 08:14am PT
Good one, Jeff.
How long was SYNERGY around I wonder?

Never saw any of their stuff in shops or on anyone's back.
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Nov 4, 2018 - 08:31am PT
Another example of the frameless (?), wraparound design,
These from North Face, during that grueling 1980 Karakoram traverse done by Ned Gillette, Kim Schmitz, Galen Rowell, and Dan Asay:

The whole thing with that approach to pack design was most appreciated by skiers, and perhaps less so by climbers. To my mind, the best rucksack shapes for climbers were done by Berghaus and Karrimor, and now you see premier equipment companies such as Arc'teryx following that profile.

These packs by North Face were similar to the Kletterwerks Terraplane. In 1980 I was renting a room from Vern and Margaret Clevenger, in Mammoth Lakes, California. That spring, the three of us went on a road trip from Mammoth Lakes to San Francisco, Santa Cruz, and Point Lobos. They were selling Vern's photographs and I was looking to find dealers for my chalk bags. Ha ha, this was when I was still sewing on my ancient black Singer, a simple drop feed machine. The buyers would be like: unh, you are sewing these on a home machine? Busted. Lightweight thread, stitches thrown off by the heavy fabric and not so uniform and etc.

Since this was spring, our way over the Sierra to the Bay Area was first through the Lake Tahoe/Kirkwood route. I was a total pack/rucksack nerd, and Vern, not just a rock climber, was a Sierra Eastside three pin skiing aficionado, or becoming one. He loved the Terraplane for its hip hugging contours, and especially for the way it carried when skiing.

Along the way, Vern, who was mentored by Rowell, whom he called Galen Rubble, after some of the climbing projects they had done together in the High Sierra, told stories about Galen. Then we visited not one, but two of Galen's significant others: one, at a shop in, as I recall, Sacramento, and the other, in San Francisco or perhaps Berkeley. They were both fine people. The latter of the two women read to us a letter from Galen when he was on that Karakoram traverse. He spoke of rock towers spread out around him, all of which he wished he'd been able to just run up to and climb, but alas, they were already overburdened by packs and sleds in their self-supporting trip, and were not toting a full retinue of climbing gear, nor would they have had the foodstuffs and the time.

So, I was stoked to find the full story, as written up by Rowell.
http://publications.americanalpineclub.org/articles/12198105900/Skiing-Karakorum-High-Route

Those guys were really something, toting full loads on those super skinny Kastle skis:

I believe this is Kim Schmitz on the same trip:

Look how similar the North Face pack is to the early Terraplane:

Alan Bard also had a relationship with TNF, and carried those packs on his back.
One of Al's favorite sayings was: Get a load on! This was a double entendre. He was speaking of both the body and the mind, ha!

Bardini, Climbing AND skiing with what might be a Terraplane:
http://www.earnyourturns.com/17796/profile-the-right-reverend-bardini/

Sadly, Ned Gillette, Allan Bard, and Galen Rowell are no longer with us.

I haven't had much luck searching photographs of those 1980s North Face rucksacks, or for that matter, any from Wild X from that timeframe. People must've really used them up!
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Nov 4, 2018 - 06:56pm PT
Ah Jim, we were young once with melanin in our hair and wrinkle free faces. Those photos remind me that I am no longer the man I never was.
Add Kim to the list Tarbuster, as I’m sure you know.
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Nov 4, 2018 - 07:50pm PT
Yeah, I thought my count was off as I was enumerating the list of RIPs from that single missive.
With those piercing gray-blue eyes of his, Kim Schmitz was the most haunting, if not haunted, climber I ever met.

Here you go, Jim, vintage tell it like it is Donini-speak, in this inscription you penned on a copy of George Myers' Yosemite Climber, to benefit Bridwell, yet another fallen icon of our time:

Image taken from this archive of the project:
http://yosemiteclimber.blogspot.com/2010/06/
Ahh Yosemite! America's alpine nursery.
And it certainly was that for Bridwell! He mentored so many there, and it was an incubator for him as well.

....................................................................

 Of course we all expect to see you climbing well into your 90s, Jim. –Berg heil!
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Nov 16, 2018 - 07:48pm PT
So, James: your brother knew Chongo Chuck, way before he garnered that handle!
And on a much more somber note, your young wife, Laurie, died soloing a peak near Mt. Dade ...


Heartbreaking. She was beautiful. You must miss her to this very day. Where is Chapter 2?
https://player.vimeo.com/video/297877263

Also, your short on Don Lauria is pretty sweet:
The ancient bastard is an inspiration for everyone – Peter Haan
https://vimeo.com/195246681
Jamesthomsen

Social climber
Mammoth Lakes, California
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 20, 2018 - 09:06am PT
Hey Tarbuster,

Yep, Greg was in high school with Chuck Tucker (Chongo Chuck.) I was at UCLA then and I would drive by Van Nuys High and Chuck would climb the fence and hop in my car and we would go to Stoney Point. I have no idea why I did that without Greg....maybe he was still trying to be a good student?

And yes, having Laurie killed when we were both so young was a really hard way to start adult life. Getting hooked on mountaineering when you are young is wonderful, but like so many others, you take a lot of chances.

I still need to do more work on Chapter 1.... And if I didn't spend so much time outside and traveling I could get more done. I do have hours of video interviews with climbers and employees from the early days of Wilderness Experience. Maybe if we have a lot of storms this winter I'll get more done.
Jamesthomsen

Social climber
Mammoth Lakes, California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 4, 2019 - 08:47am PT
It looks like I will be able to make a nearly exact copy of the Klettersack, using the original pattern, materials and quality.

If you have any good or fun photos of a Klettersack in use that I can use on a Kickstarter project let me know,
Thanks!
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Feb 4, 2019 - 08:52am PT
Thanks for the update on the Kletter-Quest and your elaboration on Laurie, Chuck, and the documentary stuff, James!
I'd missed your prior post from November 20 until now.
Jamesthomsen

Social climber
Mammoth Lakes, California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 5, 2019 - 10:24am PT
Actually the documentary is moving forward, once I realized it was beyond my ability. So a real producer/director has taken it over, doing a story of the explosion of the outdoor business in the 70s, as seen through the eyes of Wilderness Experience. He has done a number of films and a long time climber and backcountry guy, Chris Lombardo. He’s got some great interviews, including Jim Donini and John Long.
Don Lauria

Trad climber
Bishop, CA
Feb 5, 2019 - 11:29am PT
A little history on the 60-40 parka:

When Sierra Designs came up with the design we, being the first and for a brief period the sole Sierra Designs retailer in the LA area, sold it enthusiastically.

After a few years all the other major outdoor clothing manufacturers had their version on the market and Sierra Designs 60-40 sales plummeted. The SD rep, can't remember his name now (SD's original rep was Bob Swanson - Marx stayed home sewing), came into West Ridge and was lamenting the sagging sales of the 60-40 parka and wanted know if I had any ideas on how to pump up the sales. After a little thought, I suggested putting a new label on them as "The Original 60-40 Parka". Not sure whether it was George Marx or Bob Swanson that decided to go with the idea, but somebody decided to add "history" to the label, also.

The result was astonishing, their sales climbed back up and eventually exceeded their previous highs.
Jamesthomsen

Social climber
Mammoth Lakes, California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 5, 2019 - 04:00pm PT
That was a great idea Don....and it worked.
I just heard that the Original 60/40 Parka is the number one selling Sierra Designs item in Japan.
Jamesthomsen

Social climber
Mammoth Lakes, California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 5, 2019 - 04:07pm PT
Tarbuster,

Also, the video about our first years as a guide service (1971-1973) has moved:

https://vimeo.com/305645503
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Feb 5, 2019 - 06:37pm PT
Chris Lombardo...Former east side resident...We use to call him Vince Lombardi...Great guy...!!
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Feb 5, 2019 - 10:02pm PT
Okay, James, thanks for the redirect to the new location for Chapter 1.

https://vimeo.com/305645503

It looks as though you have made some changes since the iteration I saw before you moved it?
Same sit down interview with Greg, but interspersed with more and different photographs, perhaps? It will be cool to see the evolution!

Also, in this iteration, Greg mentions Dan McHale.
Is this by chance the man who started the pack company by the same name?

http://www.mchalepacks.com/
Jamesthomsen

Social climber
Mammoth Lakes, California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 6, 2019 - 07:54am PT
Rottingjohnny, yep, same Chris/Vince. He was an early employee of both Wilderness Experience and my retail store in Northridge, The Mountain Shop before he moved to the Eastside. And yes, a truly wonderful person.

Tarbuster, yes, the video did get more photos. And yes, it’s the same Dan McHale. He was a kid when he came in our first store, The Mountain Store in Tarzan’s, but he was already a good climber and one of The strongest I’ve known. We worked as a guide and rock climbing instructor for Wilderness Experience when we were just a guide service. His packs are great.
TK

climber
Feb 8, 2019 - 05:11pm PT

Wondering if you made this Chouinard pack. 1989 I think.
Jamesthomsen

Social climber
Mammoth Lakes, California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 9, 2019 - 11:53am PT
TK,
No. We worked with Frost mostly and Val Franco. Around 1975 or so. All in the pre-Patagonia days. We made all the packs except the Ultimate Thule, which was beyond our ability:)
Jamesthomsen

Social climber
Mammoth Lakes, California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 20, 2019 - 03:41pm PT
Just an update:

Chris Lombardo is moving ahead with the History of the Outddor Business in the 60-70s as seen through the eyes of Wilderness Experience. At the last Outdoor Retailer show he did some great interviews with people involved in those days, Steve Barker, who had the first climbing shop in Idyllwild in the early 70s and later founded Eagle Creek and with John Long, a friend since the early days.

But he needs any photos you have of Wilderness Experience product in use! RAEDISH, I think you posted one, can we use it? And do you have more? Also Tarbuster, you must have a bunch, any we can use? And even better, if you have any video?

Note to Donini: you asked back in October about a Wilderness Experience reunion...when you come back let's plan something. We'll include anyone else who was part of those days.

And finally, the Klettersack project is coming along great! I was able to again get ownership of the trademark and we will do our first run of Klettersacks soon, using the original pattern and materials. If you want to be notified when I do it: https://visitor.r20.constantcontact.com/d.jsp?llr=gwjssn5ab&p=oi&m=1132179564230&sit=qqttdgenb&f=4fec03d2-c215-4580-ad76-be8e286a1a73

Jamesthomsen

Social climber
Mammoth Lakes, California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 20, 2019 - 04:46pm PT
Thanks Blinny,

Your writing is always the best!

To everyone else: I asked for WildX product photos, but here is the actual request from Chris:

"Casting call! If you have any scanned photos (or digitized 8mm film) of yourself hiking, backpacking or climbing during the 60's or 70's and you're ok with us using it in our upcoming Kickstarter video for the re-launch of the Klettersack, please email them (or send Google Drive/Dropbox links) to chrisl@redguitar.com. It doesn't matter what gear you're using, we just want to show the vibe & fashion of outdoor adventure in this era. Please scour your albums and send us some cool memories. Help us make this a great video, and get mentioned in the credits!"

Thanks to anyone who can help!
Jim
Jamesthomsen

Social climber
Mammoth Lakes, California
Topic Author's Reply - May 10, 2019 - 08:48am PT
I actually going to make the Klettersack again. Just launched a Kickstarter campaign for it.
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