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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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May 23, 2018 - 11:57am PT
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they really should be upgraded but I think that would be admitting to negligence
Probably not. Assuming Federal Rules of Evidence apply:
Rule 407. Subsequent Remedial Measures
When measures are taken that would have made an earlier injury or harm less likely to occur, evidence of the subsequent measures is not admissible to prove:
negligence;
culpable conduct;
a defect in a product or its design; or
a need for a warning or instruction. . . .
But clever lawyers can sometimes finagle around even seemingly clear rules, and they may be assisted by partisan judges who can also do some finagling to help out the ol' plaintiffs' lawyers, criminal defendants, and their ilk.
(I suppose, to be fair, much less rarely you'll get a judge on the other side of things, who plays a little fast and loose with the law. But the conservatives generally advocate for "judicial restraint" and things like the "plain meaning rule" where judges are supposed to apply more-or-less clear rules instead of thinking of how they can get around them to engineer the outcome they want.)
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Topic Author's Reply - May 23, 2018 - 12:10pm PT
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Blabby, can you cite a case where the government has been held liable for not making nature safer? in fact even in the Glacier Apron case where a NPS water leak likely hastened rockfall, there was no liability. I think that was decided by a judge on a summary judgment motion.
If the bias that you claim is the norm then there should be lots of cases out there. post'em up.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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May 23, 2018 - 12:34pm PT
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Blabby, can you cite a case where the government has been held liable for not making nature safer? in fact even in the Glacier Apron case where a NPS water leak likely hastened rockfall, there was no liability. I think that was decided by a judge on a summary judgment motion.
Whoa!
My post was primarily intended to refute the contention of another poster that improving the state of the affairs would be used against the government to show negligence. I briefly explained the concept of "subsequent remedial measures" NOT being able to be used that way to correct a misunderstanding on the part of the poster.
And the careful part of me that knows "there's an exception to every rule" merely noted that we have lots of liberal judges who in general disregard the "plain meaning" of rules and laws to engineer an outcome they would prefer. I would think someone subject to the tyranny of the "Ninth Circus" would surely agree with that!
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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May 23, 2018 - 12:35pm PT
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So what was this bloke doing out there in t-storm activity? Darwin at work. RIP, brother.
wondered about that myself. maybe it's a "once in a lifetime deal", and he's got to get it done.
Like most climbers, I've been down the cables more than I've been up them, but the trip up the cables was the highlight of my young life in 1962, and doubtless represents an ultimate adventure to many tourists.
Given that, I'm surprised there aren't more people trying to head up in a thunderstorm after the permit system came into place. We always used to say that the mountain will be there tomorrow. With permits becoming scarce, many tourists can't say that about their hike to the top.
My preferred solution is to build a parallel cable network and scrap the permits. Go up on the right-hand side (facing to top) and go down on the left-hand side. It won't do anything about the crowds, but it may make their journey a bit safer.
John
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klaus
Ice climber
6th and Mission
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May 23, 2018 - 12:42pm PT
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natural selection
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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May 23, 2018 - 12:50pm PT
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I have only ever gone down them. First time, after Snakedike, I left my climbing shoes on and walked down on the outside but hanging on to the cable. The friction was way better and seemed reasonably mellow.
The second time was after doing the regular route in a very long day. I was exhausted and stayed clipped into the cable by leapfrogging two slings.
they really should be upgraded but I think that would be admitting to negligence
The number of deaths has been surprisingly low in my opinion. The cables are high enough to count as wilderness so I thought that was why the park service could no longer upgrade them and there would be too many howls if they tried to completely remove them.
I do wish they could add a second cable route, so that there would be separate lanes going up and down.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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May 23, 2018 - 01:10pm PT
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Or a slip and slide for the way down.
When the permit process first went in place I was kinda bummed, no last minute trips to possibly take friends up there and just more regulation. But now I'm convinced it was the right thing to do. Seeing all the photos of crowds on the cables is scary when thinking about a lightning storm moving in. I'd hunker down in the cave instead of wait in a traffic jam on the metal cables.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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May 23, 2018 - 01:27pm PT
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And the careful part of me that knows "there's an exception to every rule" merely noted that we have lots of liberal judges who in general disregard the "plain meaning" of rules and laws to engineer an outcome they would prefer. I would think someone subject to the tyranny of the "Ninth Circus" would surely agree with that! Ah, the fake lawyer speaks. The Ninth Circuit does not deviate from the law anymore than the 7th Circuit or (whom I'm sure is your hero, Neil Gorsuch). This is typical Fox News bullsh#t. The fact that you don't agree with the decision does not mean that the court has an alternate agenda.
Sorry for the thread drift...
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Topic Author's Reply - May 23, 2018 - 02:12pm PT
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I'd hunker down in the cave instead of wait in a traffic jam on the metal cables.
You might be safer in the scrum
http://articles.latimes.com/1985-07-29/local/me-5124_1_rock-climbers
YOSEMITE NATIONAL PARK — Two rock climbers were killed when they were struck by lightning atop famed Half Dome here, park officials said Sunday. Three others were injured, two of them critically.
The five were sitting in a cavern on top of the monolith overlooking Yosemite Valley Saturday about 6:30 p.m. when a series of lightning flashes started a few small fires and struck the climbers, a spokeswoman said.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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May 23, 2018 - 02:43pm PT
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Ah, the fake lawyer speaks. The Ninth Circuit does not deviate from the law anymore than the 7th Circuit or (whom I'm sure is your hero, Neil Gorsuch). This is typical Fox News bullsh#t. The fact that you don't agree with the decision does not mean that the court has an alternate agenda.
Sorry for the thread drift...
Looks like Fats is up to a little "fake news" today.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/feb/12/neil-gorsuchs-opinions-never-overturned-by-supreme/
(We'd have to carefully parse exactly what Fatty's somewhat ambiguous claim is to bust his ass 100%, but it seems somewhat deceitful to claim that the great Justice Gorsuch deviated from the law as much as the oft-ridiculed Ninth Circus.)
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Don Lauria
Trad climber
Bishop, CA
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May 23, 2018 - 02:59pm PT
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Cable Memories October 24, 2007
Up at 5:30 AM after illegally sleeping in the “closed” backpacker’s campground. Reached the base of the Snake Dike via the Mist Trail only to be delayed by a party of three ahead of us. Finally, on route, and on the summit by late afternoon. Lazed around and left the summit in early evening. The cables were down so we had to lift them to use them as hold holds. Reaching the base, I realized I had left our coiled rope on the summit. Oh well, not going back. Wrote it off. Although we did ask two young climbers that were going up the cables if they might contact us later and we’d reimburse them. Never heard from them again.
My 75 year old knees wouldn’t take the steps of the Mist Trail going down, so I took the Muir Trail and promised to meet my partner, who was going to use the Mist Trail, at Curry Village for dinner and a beer. We both took off with headlamps aglow.
I reached the parking area and my partner’s car was gone so I scurried over to Curry Village. No partner to be found, so I had a beer and headed back to the parking area to see if his car was there. Nope. It was about 9 PM by then so I decided to sleep in my car, right there in the parking area with the bear boxes. Well, sleep was intermittent at best and interrupted by bears making their rounds around 11:30 PM.
I gave up and headed back to Bishop. Avoiding a few herds of deer cluttering the highway to Tuolumne, I arrived home at 3 AM – 21.5 hours after arising. It was a long day.
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Gunkie
Trad climber
Valles Marineris
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May 23, 2018 - 06:43pm PT
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Having never seen the cables in the past, my partner and I descended with full haul bag and wall rack, after climbing RNWF for three days, at night before the cables got put up at the start of the hiker season. Glad it was dark.
Don Lauria: That is a hard core adventure
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shipoopoi
Big Wall climber
oakland
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May 23, 2018 - 07:05pm PT
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hey don lauria, that is a great shot of the crowds on the cables. is that dj in the foreground, and then val, kimber, and anna in the background. heather was looking at it and wanted to know, steve schneider
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DanaB
climber
CO
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May 23, 2018 - 07:05pm PT
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Our planet is overpopulated.
Well then, why don't you volunteer?
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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May 23, 2018 - 07:31pm PT
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Blah, thanks for the nonresponsive admission about your earlier fibs about being a lawyer. And you think I'm the one that needs to be fact checked? I'll leave you to your private dreamy fantasies about Gorsuch, who, in a SCOTUS decision, just screwed employees in what was called an "egregious" departure from precedent.
Again, sorry for the drift.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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May 23, 2018 - 09:02pm PT
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Blah, thanks for the nonresponsive admission about your earlier fibs about being a lawyer.
Hehe, have no idea what you're rambling about now. But I suppose I prefer your nonsensical foolishness to be being cybestalked and having my law firm unfairly besmirched, so good day!
Oh and Gorsuch found (in a typically lucid and compelling opinion) that the Ninth Circuit screwed up again in Epic Systems, what a surprise!
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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May 23, 2018 - 09:06pm PT
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so you're a lawyer blahblah? what's your firm?
anyone trumpeting about the silver stallion gorsuch.....seems like the kinda person what might find a way to get offroute on the cables
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
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May 23, 2018 - 09:39pm PT
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What are the odds that this guy was outside of the cables? I would say 99.99% High up, there is a section where it's very steep, and the cables are about shoulder height- I could see someone sliding out there.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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May 23, 2018 - 09:48pm PT
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The cables are evidently slightly less egregious than the Glacier Point Firefall...how else to explain their longevity. I do think they should drop the wilderness designation Half Dome currently has and redesignate it has a high impact tourist zone.
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