Climbing fatality & lawsuit for failure to rescue quickly

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Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
May 17, 2018 - 03:36pm PT
Don't forget, we talkin bout Potland, Oregon!! Everyone up there moves sensationally slow....


No shit! Expecting anybody in Slowregon to hurry was their first mistake. That's something most people would notice gassing up on their way to the trailhead.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
May 17, 2018 - 08:04pm PT
I remember an article in Summit magazine in about 1967 talking about the possible torts in a rescue situation. The reaction was almost universal disapproval.

While I agree with Fat Dad (a fellow UCLA law alum) that we need a functioning tort system to protect consumers, I see a trend over the last 80 years toward an overreaction. We need to remember that the cost of defending a relatively meritless suit can still be quite high.

Then there's the lottery of going to a jury. West Publishing, a major publisher of law books, used to have an ad with a caption titled "logic has its limits." This was over the picture of an empty jury box.

In Fresno, a jury, allegedly of my peers, ruled that Fresno State improperly fired its women's basketball coach for stealing the prescription meds of her players, in addition, of course, to a poor record and alienating most of the team. They awarded her several million dollars.

The attorney who represented her has now made quite a fortune from suing governmental agencies for torts that should have been the plaintiffs' fault. In addition, just a few days ago, he won a verdict that a private employer who had a video recording of a manager stealing a bit over $600 wrongfully terminated her, and owed her almost $8 million in actual damages. They settled before the jury deliberated on punitive damages.

For these and many other reasons, we have many good reasons to think the current tort system misallocates responsibility.

John
rgold

Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
May 17, 2018 - 08:30pm PT
I feel truly sad for the family, but the sense of entitlement brought on by communications technology and ready availability of military-grade aircraft goes against everything their lost one embraced when he chose climbing.

A rescue which, in other circumstances, might have taken days was carried out in four hours. Whatever transpired on the phone calls, that's a fantastic response time for a remote glaciated accident site. And lets remember that on a rescue mission on Mt. Hood in 2002, a helicopter crashed and rolled 1000 feet down the mountain.
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
Wilds of New Mexico
May 17, 2018 - 08:57pm PT
I’m certain there are many examples of undeserving plaintiffs cashing in, just as there are undoubtedly similar examples of vile defendants escaping liability. It’s not a perfect system. My experience is that it mostly sort of works out with reasonably predictable results.
gunsmoke

Mountain climber
Clackamas, Oregon
May 17, 2018 - 09:23pm PT
My understanding, based on a conversation I had two days ago with a member of Portland Mountain Rescue, is that the 911 call was not passed directly to the Sheriff's Office. Rather, it was sent to Timberline Lodge Ski Patrol. The site of the victim was well outside of the area patrolled by Timberline. Approximately two hours of time was lost as the 911 call bounced around until PMR (not named in the suit) was finally activated. Those lost two hours may very well have been the difference between surviving and dying. If the above facts are accurate, the legal question is whether the Clackamas County 911 service is responsible for botching the processing of an emergency call. The fact that climbing is dangerous seems, in this case, to not be pertinent to the legal question of responsibility for processing 911 calls.
aspendougy

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
May 17, 2018 - 09:38pm PT
I thought we Americans were the worst but we are only the fifth worst:


Lawsuits per 1,000 people:

1. Germany: 123.2/1,000
2. Sweden: 111.2/1,000
3. Israel: 96.8/1,000
4. Austria: 95.9/1,000
5. U.S.: 74.5/1,000

It surprises me that the Swedes and Austrians sue so much. But part of the equation is we have more poor people who sue less, as they cannot afford lawyers, so our numbers are lower.
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
May 17, 2018 - 09:58pm PT

Approximately two hours of time was lost as the 911 call bounced around until PMR (not named in the suit) was finally activated.

can anybody say Chronic! Chronic! Anyone seen my Chronic? Anyone?

🚬
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
May 17, 2018 - 10:02pm PT

It surprises me that the Swedes and Austrians sue so much. But part of the equation is we have more poor people who sue less, as they cannot afford lawyers, so our numbers are lower.

so iguess places like China, India,.... wait, does china EVEN have any lawyers!?

😏
Crazy Bat

Sport climber
Birmingham, AL & Seweanee, TN
May 17, 2018 - 11:37pm PT
I think it is the responsibility of each of us who go into the wilds to have a serious conversation wit our families about what our wishes are. Most of my immediate family also participates in my primary sport of caving but an ex husband did not.

It is a difficult thing to say what I do is I inherently dangerous. I will do my best to stay safe but if I die it is my own fault.

That said I have two friends who were injured by gear failure. They rightly sued, but they survived to file their own suits.

I type out if two sides of my mouth, or is that thumb? LOL
ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
May 18, 2018 - 12:12am PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Trump

climber
May 18, 2018 - 07:43am PT
That’s enough information for me to reach a verdict. Burn her, she’s a witch! These tricky kinds of things are simple to me.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 18, 2018 - 08:11am PT
It seems to me that most legal findings are based on the question
“Is there more work here for a lawyer?”

I love that old Tina Turner song - “What’s justice got to do with it?”
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
May 18, 2018 - 08:27am PT
My understanding, based on a conversation I had two days ago with a member of Portland Mountain Rescue, is that the 911 call was not passed directly to the Sheriff's Office. Rather, it was sent to Timberline Lodge Ski Patrol. The site of the victim was well outside of the area patrolled by Timberline. Approximately two hours of time was lost as the 911 call bounced around until PMR (not named in the suit) was finally activated. Those lost two hours may very well have been the difference between surviving and dying. If the above facts are accurate, the legal question is whether the Clackamas County 911 service is responsible for botching the processing of an emergency call. The fact that climbing is dangerous seems, in this case, to not be pertinent to the legal question of responsibility for processing 911 calls.

This is the logic that continues to hobble the court systems and keep the victimization attitude alive and well.

"Botching the process of an emergency call" ???
Are you too young to remember pre 911 days when you actually had to take care of yourself?
Just because you can call someone to rescue you today does not preclude the responsibility of putting yourself in that position in the first place.

When a rescue agency is formed it is not to shoulder the blame, it is to help when possible.


No one is responsible for your well being but yourself.


Trying to force blame onto any other source but the individual that VOLUNTARILY put himself in this position is ludicrous.



ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
Wilds of New Mexico
May 18, 2018 - 08:42am PT
I think the legal question would be whether the 911 dispatcher could reasonably be expected to know what agency to forward the message to (a nearby ski patrol seems pretty reasonable to me) and whether anyone had any legal duty to launch a rescue attempt regardless of when the call was received. I'd say the answer to both is no.

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 18, 2018 - 08:49am PT
I'd say the answer to both is no.

What would you be willing to bet that a jury would not agree with you?
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
Wilds of New Mexico
May 18, 2018 - 08:55am PT
I'd win on a motion for summary judgment so a jury would never get a chance to screw it up!!
clifff

Mountain climber
golden, rollin hills of California
May 18, 2018 - 09:06am PT
Lawsuits put climbing itself in danger of being banned. Because the government's reaction could be to ban climbing altogether - problem solved - no climbing - no rescue needed - and no lawsuits.

Another would be legislation making it clear that there is no obligation for the government to rescue anybody engaged in high risk activities.

........................................................................

All ambulance services, ground or air, are rescue operations whether they are needed in developed areas or in the wilderness. On the news yesterday - A woman in a car accident had a helicopter ambulance called for a 20 minute ride - they charged her $38,000 of which her insurance only covered a few hundred. The debt ruined her life. Imagine such charges for an El Cap rescue - helicopter $40k - rescue climbers - $222k.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 18, 2018 - 09:07am PT
Ha! A friend just won a summary judgement but now the appeal begins.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
May 18, 2018 - 09:15am PT
Not sure what Oregon law is, but in California suing public entities is an uphill battle.

California law https://www.cacities.org/Resources-Documents/Member-Engagement/Professional-Departments/City-Attorneys/Library/2014/Police-Civil-Liability-Paper-FINAL.aspx

Under state law, all persons owe a duty to use due care in their own actions to avoid creating an unreasonable risk of injury to others.32 By contrast, those who have not created a risk of harm generally have no duty to take affirmative action to assist or protect another.33 Although police officers are paid to act in service of the general public, their official duties do not support liability for failing to prevent injury to an individual; like private citizens, they generally have no duty to come to the aid of others.34 This “no duty” rule will “bar recovery when plaintiffs, having suffered injury from third parties who were engaged in criminal activities, claim that their injuries could have been prevented by timely assistance from a law enforcement officer.”35 If this were not the rule, the police would potentially be “legally responsible to individual citizens to prevent their victimization by crime.”36

The fact that an injured party has requested, or even received, police assistance does not itself create a “special relationship” (discussed below) that gives rise to a tort duty to take action or a certain type of action.37 In other words, a police officer responding to an incident creates no special relationship; the officer need not provide emergency medical aid to any particular individual 38, utilize any particular law enforcement tactic 39, or conduct any particular type of investigation.
40 Even in the face of imminent harm to a person, and even when the police are on the scene observing, the failure of the police to take action to assist the person does not state a claim because the police simply have no legal duty to act.41

The police owed no “duty to … protect” even when a physical attack in their presence was reasonably foreseeable and easily preventable.42

C. A Special Relationship Gives Rise To A Duty
An exception to the “no duty” to assist rule is the special relationship doctrine. A “special relationship” between a citizen and the police, giving rise to a duty, arises only in rare circumstances when police conduct “not only contributed to and increased the preexisting risk, but also changed the risk that would otherwise have existed … (there is) detrimental reliance on the officers' conduct that prevented them from seeking other assistance; and … the officers' conduct lulled the … (citizen) into a false sense of security.”43 A duty of protection or assistance

32 Minch v. Department of California Highway Patrol, 140 Cal.App.4th 895, 908 (2006).
33 Williams, supra, 34 Cal.3d at 23.
34 Id. at 23-24; Zelig v. County of Los Angeles, 27 Cal.4th 1112, 1129 (1998).
35 Zelig v. County of Los Angeles, 27 Cal.4th 1112, 1129 (1998), citing Williams, 34 Cal.3d at 25.
36 Adams v. City of Fremont, 68 Cal.App.4th 243, 275 (1998). 37 Hartzler v. City of San Jose, 46 Cal.App.3d 6, 10 (1975).
38 Rose v. County of Plumas, 152 Cal.App.3d 999, 1004 (1984).
39 Lopez v. City of San Diego, 190 Cal.App.3d 678, 682 (1987).
40 Von Batsch v. American Dist. Telegraph Co., 175 Cal.App.3d 1111, 1122 (1985).
41 Davidson v. City of Westminster, 32 Cal.3d 197, 206-09 (1982).
42 Id. 43 Adams, supra, 68 Cal.App.4th at 284.
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
May 18, 2018 - 10:00am PT
I think the legal question would be whether the 911 dispatcher could reasonably be expected to know what agency to forward the message to (a nearby ski patrol seems pretty reasonable to me) and whether anyone had any legal duty to launch a rescue attempt regardless of when the call was received. I'd say the answer to both is no.
I tend to agree with this, but I also believe that if there is a system in place that at least purports to hold itself out as a resource in events similar to this (and I guess the real question is "events exactly like this"), then I don't believe it is too much to expect that they act competently. If a lawyer volunteers to represent someone pro bono and then radically screws up the case, does the lawyer have liability? Absolutely. That's not an exact analogy clearly but you probably get the gist of my argument.

I also agree that the legal issue is such that it could likely be decided on summary judgment. Still, if a party appeals, the standard of review is on a de novo basis, so you would not have won just yet.
Messages 21 - 40 of total 64 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
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