Rock climber in California plunges 200 feet to her death

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madbolter1

Big Wall climber

Denver, CO

Mar 20, 2018 - 10:50am PT

Thank you for the analysis and pics, Clint.

RIP, Joy. So sorry for the loss to friends and family!

couchmaster

climber

Mar 20, 2018 - 11:00am PT

Wow...., never seen such a thing. Seen canyonerring do some sketchy things, but the 8 block is new to me. Thanks for the clear explanation Clint. As climbers, we'd just have both ropes together and a clipped off figure 8 on the main line going through the ring: and both parties rap on it then pull the thin pull line when down. Wonder what the advantage is of this system?

Monkees

Trad climber

Los Angeles, CA

Mar 20, 2018 - 11:15am PT

First off - I want to address the tastelessness of the post written by "another nickname". Honestly, whether you are being facetious or not, I feel your words are grossly inappropriate and insensitive to Joy's many friends and family who are in shock right now from her sudden loss. Shame on you for that comment. Maybe you should do some research first if even to have the facts straight. Joy and her partner were both experienced with climbing and canyoneering (more the former than the latter), they weren't green. And helmets, while important, most likely didn't make a difference in this accident (I am sure they had helmets, though you assumed that they didn't).

To address the other comments, yes they were climbers and hikers, but this was a canyoneering accident. Details have come to light, here is the best link I can provide regarding the incident and what could have been done to prevent it: http://ropewiki.com/Incidents:Death_in_Salamander_Canyon

Joy was a member of the SoCal Climbing community. Many of us are grieving right now. She was a kind person with an adventurous spirit, and she will be greatly missed.

Chaz

Trad climber

greater Boss Angeles area

Mar 20, 2018 - 11:29am PT

Thanks a ton, Mr Cummins. That answered a bunch of my questions - and generated a few new ones.

I've seen people do the damndest things with the Figure Eight. I don't know what it is about that piece of gear.

Setting up a system where weight is jammed sideways onto a biner gate doesn't make any sense to me either.

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Mar 20, 2018 - 11:34am PT

That nonsense violates every principle of the KISS survival strategy.

Chaz

Trad climber

greater Boss Angeles area

Mar 20, 2018 - 11:42am PT

While I wouldn't rap off the one strand, I know for a fact it's impossible for two n00bs to pull a double-fisherman's knot (joining two 11mm ropes) through a Chouinard Oval.
No Figure Eight necessary.

That's something you learn by pulling the wrong color rope at the end of a rap. Call it the Crankloon Block.

Chaz

Trad climber

greater Boss Angeles area

Mar 20, 2018 - 12:00pm PT

Why rap on only one rope?

It'd be something to consider if you only weighed 95lbs and were working with wet ropes.

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Mar 20, 2018 - 12:02pm PT

KISS - Why I almost always climbed with double 9’s when in the alpine - you can’t pull the wrong rope.

Bad Climber

Trad climber

The Lawless Border Regions

Mar 20, 2018 - 12:06pm PT

First of all: Sincere condolences to Joy's friends and family. We could all go in a rappelling accident.

Maybe for another thread, but looking over the links, the systems/knots/etc. just look CRAZY complicated, totally ripe for accidents. Since there was a solid anchor and they had two ropes, why not just double up like climbers do and rap and pull? I've only done a couple of canyoneering trips, and we rapped like climbers--no big deal.

Check your knots, everyone. Talk to your partners. Come home.

BAd

WBraun

climber

Mar 20, 2018 - 12:08pm PT

Why rap on only one rope?

Are you even a climber?

This beal escaper is cool.

There were 100's of times I could have used this ingenious simple device .....

madbolter1

Big Wall climber

Denver, CO

Mar 20, 2018 - 12:08pm PT

From the referenced wiki analysis....

The primary lesson of this accident appears to be that unprotected short tails on contingency anchors should be avoided. This lesson did not appear to be common knowledge among canyoneers at the time of the incident (see SoCal Canyoneering discussion).

I'm honestly just baffled at this over-complicated cluster-fornication of a rig! There are SO many better, KISS ways to set up the rap (whether for rope-retrieval or not). Who dreamed up this absurdity in the first place, and then who looked at that mess and thought, "That's really cool! I'm going to put human lives at risk with this."?

I must admit to feeling angered by this accident, because this is one that at a glance should never have happened.

We talk about risk as climbers. We play an odds game, but if we're competent, the odds game almost entirely concerns objective hazards. It's nobody's "fault" if the big flake comes off, the avalanche happens, the hold breaks, the aid placement pulls, the fall results in a header, etc. There are countless ways to get the chop that are not the "fault" of anybody other than playing the game in the first place. The participants to such events simply took a calculated risk and lost.

However, this accident was not any such thing. This was not "gear failure" or some objective hazard taking its toll. This was just incompetent rigging, plain and simple, and, as such, was entirely avoidable.

The line: "This lesson did not appear to be common knowledge among canyoneers at the time of the incident" doesn't work for me at all.

Minimal competency at rigging a rappel provides multiple ways to accomplish the desired purpose without such an inordinately complicated mess as this. There are simple, straightforward methods that have been tested for decades and decades. What motivates somebody to even dream up such a mess, much less employ it with human lives at stake?

WBraun

climber

Mar 20, 2018 - 12:19pm PT

What is this?

It's goofiest sh!t I've ever seen.

I have been exclusively using the Figure of 8 of which I've used on thousands and thousands of rappels for over 30 years.

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Mar 20, 2018 - 12:20pm PT

this ingenious simple device

Simple? Not as simple as double ropes IMHO. And it ain’t like canyoneers are expending
energy hauling an ‘extra’ rope upwards.

WBraun

climber

Mar 20, 2018 - 12:21pm PT

Double ropes = extra gear and weight.

I was always into minimalist, efficiency, and speed .....

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Mar 20, 2018 - 12:25pm PT

And I’m a Luddite - two ropes are crankloon-proof. 🤡

WBraun

climber

Mar 20, 2018 - 12:27pm PT

I'm NOT a krankl00n ..... LOL

madbolter1

Big Wall climber

Denver, CO

Mar 20, 2018 - 12:28pm PT

This beal escaper is cool.

No thanks! Not for me, mate.

I'll carry the second rope and be GLAD for the "extra" weight. I've done countless thousands of rappels spanning fifty years on "low tech," tried and true rigging. I've watched a guy die rappelling off of a swaged cable "anchor" about which I told him, "Dude, really, back that up with a sling" just moments before he took the plunge when the "swaged" sleeve slipped and the whole "anchor" unraveled. And I've read about far too many incidents like this one. Rappels are flat-out dangerous, and anything "sporty" or over-complicated radically increases the danger.

This "cool, new tech" amounts to accidents just begging to happen, imo.