Rock climber in California plunges 200 feet to her death

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Caveman

climber

Cumberland Plateau

Mar 22, 2018 - 07:14pm PT

"My apologies if your cave history background does include the Pyrenees in the 60's and 70's"

I started caving in TAG in the early 70's. Pyrenees my butt. SRT came out of TAG.

This is as wet as it gets. This caver might as well been on the moon

https://vimeo.com/37841875

RIP Artur Kozlowski

limpingcrab

Trad climber

the middle of CA

Mar 22, 2018 - 07:53pm PT

^^^ So, your argument now seems to be that these voodoo rigs are designed TO introduce risk, because, well, rapping down a waterfall isn't risky enough, so canyoneers are intentionally adding even more "excitement" to the game.

It seems that we need to be clear about what "the game" is. I didn't realize that intentionally contrived, over complicated rappel rigs was part of how this game is defined. I thought that the game was to negotiate canyons WITHOUT unnecessary risk. Silly me. I thought that if there were better ways to reliably rope people into canyons that the canyoneers would be all over that.

Ya, my sarcastic analogy wasn't perfect. It was more to address your recommendation to place bolts off to the side to avoid water or lower each other when there is water.

My last statement in that post should have been the part to focus on. We can't really contribute much to a debate about a sport that we haven't done a lot, just like someone who never climbs probably won't understand how to choose the correct gear for a climb. "Always use a gri-gri in every scenario because they're the safest"

Holy crap that's an awesome picture^^^^^^^

Inner City

Trad climber

Portland, OR

Mar 22, 2018 - 08:01pm PT

Another painful supertopo thread where super accomplished outdoor types end up slinging stuff at each other for what? To prove something? To benefit the community and try to create a better future.

Ratagonia knows his canyon stuff..that much is for sure, and climbers thinking their methods are the only ones to consider for all situations are being presumptuous.

Just because one enthusiast rigged one rap poorly does not mean figure 8 blocks are obsolete. Au contraire, rigged properly they offer a valuable tool to thr canyoneer.

We all have more in common than not and one night around a real campfire would bear that out.

Stoopid American,

Dave Reid

Crazy Bat

Sport climber

Birmingham, AL & Seweanee, TN

Mar 22, 2018 - 11:55pm PT

A fair number of fevers have adapted canyonering rigs for pull down rappels. Dirk Sirons fall in Sinking Cove was a case in point. He told me a momentary distraction caused him to rig into the wrong rope. I believe it was hard rigged for those that went before him and he was the last one down.

I have not gone canyoneering but I have done double rope rappels over 100 feet in waterfalls. Not an experience I want to repeat even with a cavers rappel rack. I would rather chance a voodoo rig than take that chance again. I was using stiff caving rope. If I had been on thinner rope or more flexible rope I would still be hanging in that waterfall.

Gary

Social climber

Desolation Basin, Calif.

Mar 23, 2018 - 05:39am PT

I have been canyoneering, once, and watched my wife get dropped 10 feet as the expert on top decided that while she was on rapell was a good time to do some stupid rope trick.

Had the privilege of finishing the adventure by rapping into an oil seep at the bottom of the canyon. Fun.

Flip Flop

climber

Earth Planet, Universe

Mar 23, 2018 - 07:59am PT

Maybe it's all voodoo to you,MB, but Load-releasing is super important in rigging, rescue, climbing and caving. So many words and yet....

(Bonus: MB suggesting that the leader on rappel should be lowered shows the low quality of his theories)

Jon Beck

Trad climber

Oceanside

Mar 23, 2018 - 09:54am PT

Writing software code is not "engineering", no matter what the code monkeys would like to think.

Did the code that engineers use to analyze designs (slide rules went out decades ago) write itself? Not all coders are engineers, and I would say most are not. But writing code covers a hell of a lot of ground, some of it is engineering.

I will also say that a lot of people with the title and education as an engineer are not engineers. I know people that have no college that qualify as engineers.