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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jul 16, 2018 - 09:10pm PT
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RICO RCO RICOZ
Is there an echo in the chamber
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Jul 16, 2018 - 09:14pm PT
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tooth: As with many crimes, simply attempting to commit the crime is a crime in itself. Whether or not the crime is actually committed.
Of course, which is why I keep quoting these guys who use the words influence et al. That means the attempt was attempted/carried out/completed and it actually made a difference. It INFLUENCED someone's vote. Had an effect on that vote, and thus the outcome of the election. Yikes.
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Jul 16, 2018 - 09:22pm PT
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So I used to surf south of San Onofre on the Camp Pendelton base, DMJs. Get saluted by everyone going in there with my classmates who were marines. Listened to stories about how a buddy of theirs works for the Clintons. Everybody knows they have skeletons in their closets, even us Canadians who don't care. The emails were congruent with what everyone already knew. I just can't see how it actually 'influenced' as everyone keeps claiming, or blaming. Everyone knew the Trump brand beforehand as well. Nothing new came out about him either. You would think that if the media really had sway, he never would have been elected as I never saw anything positive about him, and like 90% negative. the rest was just obligatory NPR type reporting.
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Jul 16, 2018 - 09:23pm PT
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Is Jody the guy who spent his entire life living off taxpayer money? The guy who lived an entitled childhood off the National Park budget, and now wants to abolish the EPA?
Is that the Jody we are talking about?
Jody is an ex cop(CHP) who prided himself on meeting his ticket quota.
Claims to be a christian, but likes to play the victim(how ironic).
At times he attacks people whose opinions he doesn't like with vulgar ad hominems.
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Jul 16, 2018 - 09:32pm PT
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DMT,This is why I referred upthread to the USA as a type of democracy, and Republic, since a pure democracy uses popular vote, which you do not, as every grade 6 kid knows. However, nobody said it was about foreigners breaking US law, it was about Russians influencing the election - something I quoted by two individuals arguing amongst themselves with differing points of view.
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Jul 16, 2018 - 09:41pm PT
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Tooth brings a point to bear totally separate from clear treason and meddling which DID happen with the help of Fox news, Wikileaks, a few Congressmen, several American corporatist, foreign oligarchs and a whole bunch of dumbsh!t voters.
Nobody did a reach behind and made you punch the hole next to Trump- you did that all on your own. So yes, we have about 25% of our electorate that are complete idiots and do not posess the intellectual curiosity to make informed decisions.
That said, heads need to roll, lies once again, need to be considered absolutely unacceptable with punitive consequences and the weak idiots need to get back to Big Buck Hunter for Xbox.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Jul 16, 2018 - 09:42pm PT
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Jul 16, 2018 - 09:42pm PT
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So you are insinuating that FB ads influenced you and Jody in who you voted for? Is this for real?
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Jul 16, 2018 - 09:46pm PT
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As far as I have seen, Democrats vote inspirationally, Republicans persperationally. Republicans out of duty to God and Country, part of being Republican, it's their job, duty. Democrats if they feel seratonin or dopamine, which is why Obama made it.
It only stands to reason then that FB ads made Democrats emotional.... ?
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Jul 16, 2018 - 09:46pm PT
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The faux FB news releases of Hillary serving fetal baby parts on the Dominos pizza actually won her votes...
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Jul 16, 2018 - 09:53pm PT
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Americans built, own, run and operate FB. Now you need to make rules and laws to protect yourselves somehow from ads because..... Russians can make you do things that way?
WIRED
And they were doing it in way that, for now at least, is totally legal. It raises a crucial question about political divisiveness in America: Who's the bigger threat? Russian trolls or ourselves?
I can see how a grown up could truly say that he didn't interfere or influence the US election because it is unfathomable that just running FB ads could actually interfere or influence Americans. Same with putting out emails that even the indictment quotes as being benign and known.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jul 16, 2018 - 09:56pm PT
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Even the reliably pro-Trump Drudge Report issued a harsh verdict. “Putin Dominates,” the site’s lead all-caps headline read.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Jul 16, 2018 - 10:11pm PT
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Jody is an ex cop(CHP) who prided himself on meeting his ticket quota.
Claims to be a christian, but likes to play the victim(how ironic).
At times he attacks people whose opinions he doesn't like with vulgar ad hominems.
Plus (ad hominem) he likes Ted Cruz. Yuck. Seriously, Ted Cruz????
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Jul 16, 2018 - 10:15pm PT
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Tooth-persperationally yes, definitely tooth, not teeth...
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Jul 16, 2018 - 10:18pm PT
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Patrick, convert the pdf to a jpeg and post as a photo.
Okay Winemaker, I'll try that,
BTW, Mac Sawyer, Robert Bruce MacGregor Sawyer, my brother and my best friend (and an okay climber, just, hah hah), was a top viticulturist and oeneologist (sp?)
Some of his wines would go for $5,000 a bottle in restaurants (Conn Valley Vineyards, Napa) Francis Ford Coppola once told me ( different story but I could repeat it), "Mac Sawyer, tell him to send me his resume, I want him on my team." FACT, Coppola told me that.
Robert Parker, the false god of wine, always rated Mac's wine in the high 90s.
Mac was the best, graduated from Davis, studied for his MS at Montpelier in France. His wife (widow) Kathleen and I agree, why did he not push himself, his name and talent, further? He was the best. Etienne, of Hugel et Fils, Riquewihr, France, his uncle Johnny (a great man, one of the best winemakers in France, I worked under him), they agreed, Mac was one of the best, yet my brother did not want the accolade.
And it was Johnny (Jean) Hugel, who taught me that wine was simple. "Wine is what you like. you use your nose, you use your brain. If you like it, forget what others say, enjoy it."
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Jul 16, 2018 - 10:19pm PT
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So FB ads and leaked emails are to blame for influencing and actually affecting the election but nobody actually voted for Trump because of those two official reasons. One was legal, one illegal. It is illegal in the US so you are going to drag twelve Russians back to the US and put them in prison. Then tie them to Trump and impeach him. Then still be left with a load of dummies who vote via FB ads and leaked emails. Make the FB ads illegal and blame the next c*#k up on something else equally as sad. Seems like democracy is in question.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Jul 16, 2018 - 10:34pm PT
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Wow, Ross, heavy man. I bow to your knowledge.
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Jul 16, 2018 - 11:00pm PT
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14 years of reading SuperTopo political threads and I have never seen an American change your minds or change another's mind on politics. Suddenly FB ads are doing it? Or a set of leaked emails?
Something you are being sold doesn't add up to me but nonetheless, you are buying it.
I'm with treez, get someone environmentally friendly in asap - and yeah, free healthcare is awesome!
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Jul 16, 2018 - 11:29pm PT
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Full-time (24/7) Home Caregiver (Partner’s Carer)
I have done a lot in life, but being a full-time carer was the toughest. Do not underestimate what home carers do, they may be looking after your mom, they may be your sister or brother, give them support.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 17, 2018 - 12:05am PT
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I still don't understand how Russia did this?
U.S. elections are not free-for-all events. There are rules, such as who can donate what to election campaigns. It is specifically forbidden for foreigners to donate, or otherwise provide assistance to a candidate.
Russia provided funds to the National Rifle Association, which found their way into various GOP candidate's campaign funds. That was a Federal violation of campaign finance laws.
Russia broke into the Democratic National Committee's computer system, and stole information that was then released because it was damaging to Hillary Clinton. That violated campaign finance laws (an in-kind contribution) and also laws against cyber crime in general.
Russian agents engaged in an extensive and sophisticated social-media campaign to disseminate disinformation to disadvantage Hillary Clinton. For example, a false story about Hillary Clinton running a child sex-slave ring out of the basement of a Washington D.C. pizza parlor was believed to have begun with the Russian operatives. The social media campaign may not have broken Federal laws, but was still influential in the election.
At least a dozen Trump campaign officials met with Russian agents, oligarchs or government officials during the election. The purpose of those meetings has been obfuscated by the attendees, but it is suspected that it was to coordinate efforts to maximize damage to the Clinton campaign. The most famous event was a meeting in Trump Tower between Trump's campaign chairman, son and son-in-law, for a specific purpose of obtaining illicitly-gained information about Hillary Clinton that would be damaging to her campaign (i.e., "dirt" on Hillary). The Russians who provided the information broke campaign laws, and Trump's campaign staff broke the laws when they agreed to meet in order to receive the information. Conspiracy to commit a crime does not require that the crime actually take place; planning to commit a crime with others is itself a crime.
The barrage of false and misleading information that Russia released upon the American public served to provide cover for Donald Trump's own false and misleading statements. The environment in which Trump operated was highly polluted with lies and falsehoods, so that his own lies and falsehoods seemed normal by comparison.
The Russians operated in a similar manner during the British Brexit election, with a great deal of misinformation about the consequences of Britain leaving the European Market. The British government is currently investigating interference in its election, in a manner analogous to Robert Mueller's investigation in the U.S.
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