Trump has entered the Querencia Phase of his presidency

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Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Topic Author's Original Post - Mar 17, 2018 - 06:27pm PT
Trump knows the end is near. He knows his ludicrous facade of denials is crumbling.

So, Trump has shifted into a more aggressive, belligerent and sociopathological mode. Trump's one-last-stand against reality is upon us, and it will become uglier, more unpredictable, and more hazardous for anyone he deems to be "The Enemy".

Trump has entered the Querencia Phase of his presidency.

Just last week, Trump sued porn star Stormy Daniels for $20 million. He then fired Deputy FBI Director Andrew McCabe, 26 hours short of retiring with his pension. Trump's lawyers have demanded an end to all investigations into White House malfeasance.

These intimidation moves are the desperate actions of a madman who has been backed into a corner. Wild-eyed and crazy, foaming at the mouth, Trump is grasping at something - anything - to stave off the inevitable. He is attempting to distract, confuse, intimidate and stall his pursuers, hoping that some sort of Deus ex Machina miracle - as seen on TV - will magically materialize, and lift him from the bottomless pit of turpitude he has dug himself into.


To borrow a metaphor from a sport as barbaric and bloody as modern D.C. politics, Trump has entered the Querencia Phase of his presidency. This is when a bull in a ring realizes that the matador is finally closing in for the kill. At this point, the bull will retreat to an area of the ring that he deems a safe haven, so that he can regroup, rethink, plan, and muster the last of his strength to prepare for the epic, final battle that he knows he cannot win.

This is when the bull is most unpredictable and dangerous. A bull in the Querencia Phase of the fight must be handled very carefully, or disaster will ensue. One misstep, mistake or misjudgement can give the victory to the bull.



A querencia is a place the bull naturally wants to go to in the ring, a preferred locality... It is a place which develops in the course of the fight where the bull makes his home. It does not usually show at once, but develops in his brain as the fight goes on. In this place he feels that he has his back against the wall and in his querencia he is inestimably more dangerous and almost impossible to kill.

 Ernest Hemingway, Death in the Afternoon (courtesy Wikipedia.com)




Make no mistake: Trump has no intention of going down without taking out the matador and as much of the audience as he can. His self-image, as a godlike entity, requires a heroic and cataclysmic final act to punish those who have challenged his divinity and omnipotence.

Nixon had the decency to resign, for the benefit of the nation, when he entered his own unavoidable Querencia Phase. Trump has no such decency. And neither did Saddam Hussein, who burned the Iraqi oil wells on his way out.

The TV scene that plays over and over in Trump's mind these days is that of James Cagney, going down amid gunfire and flames:

Made it, Ma! Top of the World!











EDITOR'S NOTE TO CHRIS MAC:

This topic is climbing related, because Trump is trying to climb out of the bottomless pit of turpitude that he has dug himself into. But, the walls of that pit are like a Fisher Tower in the rain: the consistency of wet sugar.

Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Mar 17, 2018 - 06:49pm PT
Tom! Great writing & good insight on your post.

I'm tempted to agree with eKat on her thoughts:

OK . . Tom wins the internet for the month of March . . . hands down.

But the month ain't over.

As the (supposed) ancient Chinese curse reads:

May you live in interesting times.
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 17, 2018 - 07:00pm PT
Watchout

EDIT

but trump is too much a coward to go down inflames. He is more likely to inflict what damage he can and then skulk off with his "wealth" and a convenient cover story


New Yorkers who've known him forever are advocating this as a likely scenario



rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Mar 17, 2018 - 07:17pm PT
Trump will submit when Stormy releases the picture of him wearing the Little Bo Peep get up...
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Mar 17, 2018 - 07:20pm PT
I hope he goes down in flames.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Mar 17, 2018 - 07:26pm PT
yes, Tom should get a Pulitzer for his writing on this thread.....
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Mar 17, 2018 - 09:01pm PT
Oh Good! Another politard thread! Awesome.
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Mar 17, 2018 - 09:09pm PT
Querencia: also a book (something of a memoir) by Stephen Bodio.
Stephen Bodio writes like Pavarotti sings. He is a master. No one who loves the West should miss this book.
 Tony Hillerman
nah000

climber
now/here
Mar 17, 2018 - 09:40pm PT
my favourite part is the editor’s note at the end... ha!

methinks it’s high time we got a “don’t taze me cmac bro” donation button on this site that throws a fiver into cmac and rj’s beer [or maybe kombucha] fund... then when someone’s spidey senses begin to tingle and they sense a midnight thread killing spree on the horizon a few folks can throw some hopefully conciliatory beers/kombuchas cmac/rj’s way...

:)
RussianBot

climber
Mar 17, 2018 - 09:48pm PT
We’re going to have to be right about this one of these times! Aren’t we? To hell with that gambler’s ruin fallacy! Talk is cheap, but the glory of being right is eternal, so looks like a good bet to me. In retrospect itt will be almost like prescience. Or just wrong again.
Tom Patterson

Trad climber
Seattle
Mar 17, 2018 - 10:49pm PT
Trump is an insecure, vindictive little man-child, up with whom any decent, rational climber would not put (see how I kept it climbing-related?).
Tom Patterson

Trad climber
Seattle
Mar 17, 2018 - 10:51pm PT
So you all want Pence?

Noooooooo!!!!!!

My hope is that he's caught in the dragnet, as well.

Hopefully, after the 2018 midterm elections, the balance of power will shift to the Democrats, and we won't have to deal with the possibility of the sycophantic Ryan, either.

Make no mistake: Trump has no intention of going down without taking out the matador and as much of the audience as he can. His self-image, as a godlike entity, requires a heroic and cataclysmic final act to punish those who have challenged his divinity and omnipotence.

I don't know, Tom...maybe you're right. I do wonder. He has to control the narrative that he's a "winner," and that leads me to believe he'll bail before he's impeached. You saw this same attitude with the Golden State Warriors, and how Curry dissed him, and he said, "Invitation withdrawn." It was an after the fact "I break up with you!" after he'd already been broken up with.

There was a 1989 documentary on Trump that only recently got released on YouTube. At the very end, a reporter for (the then) Spy Magazine said, "There are only two possible outcomes for Trump: either he lives out his days in a villa in Panama, shuffling around in his bathrobe, growing his finger nails long, and storing his urine in jars...or he is king of the world" (paraphrased). And this was back in '89!

I work with the guy who wrote every word of "The Art of the Deal," and he is definitely concerned about what a cornered Trump will do, because of his obvious emotional and psychological instability and neediness. He considers him a complete sociopath, and would prefer that his book be called simply "The Sociopath."

But I still wonder if Trump's greediness (which is also clearly profound) will outweigh his taking a chance of destroying it by some other action that would threaten his bank accounts or holdings.

Whatever happens, we clearly have a very unstable child in the Oval Office.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 18, 2018 - 02:05am PT
Well, Trump's querencia has just been subpoenaed...

Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Mar 18, 2018 - 02:29am PT
Good point Moose. Trump is in the process of getting rid of all the adults in the room, McMaster and Kelly and replacing them with yes-men who will not oppose him. The mid-terms are the only thing that will stop this comedy from becoming a tragedy.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 18, 2018 - 03:04am PT
^^^^^^^^^^^

Section IV of the 25th Amendment provides for the Vice-President and majority of the Cabinet to remove an incapacitated President from office. If Trump tries to invoke a contrived national emergency to stay in power, there is a direct and simple mechanism to get rid of him.

But, if a majority of the Cabinet remains loyal to him, it could be real trouble, unless the Democrats gain control of both Houses of Congress.




Presidents Nixon and Clinton both got into serious trouble for lying and trying to deceive investigators. Their underlying crimes were relatively meaningless.

Now, we have Trump. He has concocted an intricate maze of lies, producing an inescapable trap for himself. Even his lawyers can't keep the story straight anymore.



As Warbler mentioned, it is truly astonishing to witness these unprecedented and historical events.

In a parallel universe, they would play out on the silver screen as a Woody Allen movie called Take The Election And Run.

SilverSnurfer

Mountain climber
SLC, UT.
Mar 18, 2018 - 06:28am PT
I initially read the title as entering the "quinceanera phase" and thinking...okayyy..
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Mar 18, 2018 - 06:35am PT
For me the real question is when will the Republicans start looking out for the good for the country, not the good of their party? I'm constantly amazed and disappointed at how un-American they have become.
yanqui

climber
Balcarce, Argentina
Mar 18, 2018 - 08:37am PT
I figure you're talking about the politicians, Winemaker, so OK, I guess, but don't forget Mueller's a Republican (at least that's what I read) and his service to America seems to be pretty impeccable.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 18, 2018 - 08:56am PT
We're not getting Pence.

The fact that the Republican pols, in general, are silently whistling as they pass the graveyard carries a pretty loud tune, if you think about it. Why, one has to wonder, would they behave this way. Why indeed.... "If I just stand here and don't move, maybe I'll be invisible."

They are damned if they do, and damned if they don't. After all, Putin's shown us that he has zero problem with killing in broad daylight. And ironically, some of these men, being fathers, had NO PROBLEM WHATSOEVER playing the high-risk game they were/are engaged in. Trump being one of them. I guess it all does come down to the denial factor. "I won't get caught." But it's okay, when it's the "rich man's game," I guess, to leave your children with a criminal role model, or a horrible legacy to be shouldered the rest of their lives.
10b4me

Social climber
Lida Junction
Mar 18, 2018 - 09:02am PT
For me the real question is when will the Republicans start looking out for the good for the country

don't hold your breath.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Mar 18, 2018 - 10:15am PT
Yeah yanqui, you're correct. I mean Ryan, McConnell, and their ilk. The attacks on the FBI, the ending by Republicans of the House Russia investigation, the cognitive dissonance necessary to support the amoral, lying, self serving thing in the White House is amazing. I see Sarah Sanders spewing and wonder how she can look at herself in the mirror each morning and not throw up. Don't any of these people have a limit, a conscience, an ethic?
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Mar 18, 2018 - 10:21am PT
I initially read the title as entering the "quinceanera phase" and thinking...okayyy..

Our little girl is all grown up.
Fossil climber

Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
Mar 18, 2018 - 11:36am PT
This is a terribly dangerous time. They are closing in on him, he's becoming increasingly irrational and aggressive. Beware of a major move - like firing the Special Investigator or making a big military adventure, or finding some other imperative threat to the US which will give him a rationale to declare a state of emergency.
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 18, 2018 - 11:57am PT
So you all want Pence?

Not much a choice, but Trump is worse than Pence.

Pence probably has a smaller following than Trump and if the Demo(n)s can get it together and take over the House they can put the stymie on either one and more readily on Pence.

BTW have you ever seen Stymie (the first Black Panther?) do his Trump imitation?





Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 18, 2018 - 02:03pm PT
For me the real question is when will the Republicans start looking out for the good for the country, not the good of their party? I'm constantly amazed and disappointed at how un-American they have become.



Follow the Money. Just, follow the Money.
 Deep Throat




The social callousness of big corporations and wealthy oligarchs is directly reflected in the GOP's behavior. Basically, it comes down to a group of money addicts, with all the money, doling it out to lesser money addicts who will do anything to get their fix. The lesser addicts pass laws that favor increased concentration of wealth at the top, which further finances the lesser addicts to pass even more laws favoring the money addicts at the top.

Deregulation (lawlessness) is a primary component of this system of self-perpetuating economic malfeasance, which is why the oligarchs and big corporations are so adamant about it. The fiction that the best system is the Law of the Jungle is only true for those at the top. Civilization and laws were invented to shelter people from the Law of the Jungle, but today lawmakers are beholden to those at the top, who favor a system of lawlessness for themselves, with gated fortresses and armed guards to isolate themselves as much as possible from the rest of society.

Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Mar 18, 2018 - 02:31pm PT
Yeah, great, another politard thread. Sure, the democrats could fix everything.


Anybody see Wag The Dog?
Start to worry when we declare war on Albania.
Bruce Morris

Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
Mar 18, 2018 - 02:51pm PT
I'm just itchin' to watch the private pics and videos Stormy is going to release of our fearless leader in flagrante delicto. That should be the cherry on top of the cake.

But actually I'm going to be afraid to watch!

zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 18, 2018 - 04:43pm PT
Is Trump freaking out?

He's gonna kill all the Big Pharma Gang. Where you from, SA?


Trump to release opioid epidemic plan on Monday that includes death penalty

Here's his hit list. Anyone have family?

https://www.fiercepharma.com/special-report/top-20-highest-paid-biopharma-ceos

Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 18, 2018 - 10:55pm PT
That should be the cherry on top of the cake.

It'll be more like the pumpkin on top of the cake.




Trump is now saying that Comey's and McCabe's personal memos, which Trump has never seen, are FAKE MEMOS.

Trump is so guilty, on so many levels, he automatically claims everything is FAKE NEWS. Trump's criminality and turpitude is so extensive, even he can't keep track of it. Just to be safe, he immediately denies the validity of all information.


Ironically, one of Trump's purported heroes, Ayn Rand, used the term "Deniers of Reality" to describe the losers in her books.











EDIT:

David Byrne is a genius, same as he was 40 years ago. His insight into Jared Kushner, as being inexorably drawn by the Fates to be just like his father (a Federal prisoner) is priceless, and spot-on.

Just today, it was revealed that Jared defrauded the NYC planning department to increase his profits in a real estate deal.

VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
Lituya

Mountain climber
Mar 18, 2018 - 11:24pm PT
Aye yai yai! You guys are truly a sad lot. All the usual suspects too. Go outside. Make new friends. That don't climb. And never did. Or at least find new enemies. Scratch that. Talk to your wives. Read some fiction. Find real jobs!

Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 18, 2018 - 11:39pm PT






Trump's big MAGA win has been in Wyoming, where his approval rating has only slipped 20% since he took office.

And, California and New York are now red states.

healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 19, 2018 - 01:09am PT
Education level by state:


https://wallethub.com/edu/most-educated-states/31075/
Delhi Dog

climber
Good Question...
Mar 19, 2018 - 01:16am PT
I don't know...I always get something out of these threads...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07G4xhSefuI
Bad Climber

Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
Mar 19, 2018 - 07:06am PT
Meanwhile, BOTH parties are working extra hard to ruin the nation. Dems, repubs, it doesn't matter. They're both in it to maintain their power and stay in office. My proof? The recent spending bill, a bold "bi-partisan move," according to some repubs I was listening to. The result:

The national debt has just crossed $21 TRILLION.

Twenty one 'effin' trillion 'effin' dollars, folks. I think that amounts to about $170k per tax-paying American, since only about half the country pays federal income tax. With a few exceptions, the capitol is inhabited by idiots and cowards and a-holes because they KNOW this is the real slow motion train wreck that is charging down the tracks, and they don't give a sh*t.

As I think one economist put it, if something can't go on forever, it won't. We're going to have to pay for this idiocy at some point, and because of the self-severing jackasses in Washington, I expect the payment will be extraordinarily painful and chaotic. This is what the end of empire looks like.

So we can all eat popcorn and watch the Orange Lunatic stumble and fume, but he is only a very small part of the real problem. There are no grownups minding the store. There is some chance I'll be gone when the worst of it hits, but make no mistake: It's going to get very, very ugly.

BAd
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Mar 19, 2018 - 07:23am PT
There are no grownups minding the store.

Bingo!
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Mar 19, 2018 - 07:41am PT
I am not normally a vindictive person, but there are some people that deserve a yuuge amount of public humiliation.

It will be great to see tRump twisting in the wind while all the rats desert his sinking clown car.

The thing that worries me the most is that in his desperation there will be another attempt at a Reichstag Fire, and that there are enough followers in the tRump cult of personality to cause some real damage. I hope Congress is ready to put an end this lunacy.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 19, 2018 - 07:58am PT
The national debt has just crossed $21 TRILLION.

I'm not really concerned given the GDP and, comparatively, China's is even more leveraged.
WBraun

climber
Mar 19, 2018 - 08:08am PT
You st00pid Americans will never learn.

Just st00pid fools blaming everything outside of your own selves.

You Americans are the real cause of your own problems.

You selfish bastards use up the majority of the whole worlds resources and slaughter everything in sight to maintain your extravagant st00pid decadent lifestyles.

Are st00pid warmongers who's biggest industry is war products.

You, nutcases, are all over the planet meddling in everyone's business, st00pid hypocrites.

Americans are sooo st00pid blind ....
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Mar 19, 2018 - 08:25am PT
Twenty one 'effin' trillion 'effin' dollars, folks.
Yep. The last time we had a budget surplus was under Clinton, a Democrat. That was squandered by Bush with tax cuts. Now the party (supposedly) most concerned about the debt, Republicans, just passed a tax cut for the 1% and business, increasing that debt. It happens every time; the Repubs moan and groan about the debt until they get in power then, poof, no worries. Hypocrites all.

Raise taxes and start paying the debt down. I'll propose a tax; tax every stock transaction over some amount (say $50,000, $100,000 or something) at a rate of say .5%. This would simply be a sales tax to support the country that provides all the things that make the markets possible. I pay sales tax of 8.2% on everything I buy except food; get the computer traders to pay a fair share, they have enough special deals like carried interest going for them.

Quack, quack duck.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 19, 2018 - 08:35am PT
No Republican can claim ever creditability on morality or Party accountability again.
They are complete hypocrites on every issue.

There is still a yuge percentage of Repubs that say Trump is the best President Ever!!
They are so deep in the right wing cult, sad
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 19, 2018 - 08:39am PT



Barry R McCaffrey @mccaffreyr3


Reluctantly I have concluded that President Trump is a serious threat to US national security. He is refusing to protect vital US interests from active Russian attacks. It is apparent that he is for some unknown reason under the sway of Mr Putin.


1:46 PM - Mar 16, 2018
RussianBot

climber
Mar 19, 2018 - 09:59am PT
“Cambridge Analytica will try to pick at whatever mental weakness .. you have ..”

What?! We supertopo posters might have some mental weaknesses that contributed to Trump’s election?! I for one am shocked! shocked I say! and deeply offended at the mere thought of it!

I’m still holding out for collusion - that’s how mentally fit I am. Yep, I must be some kind of mental genius.

Or other. Me good. Them bad.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Mar 19, 2018 - 10:19am PT
I'm not really concerned given the GDP and, comparatively, China's is even more leveraged.

The two largest economies are hugely in debt, and you think it's no biggie?
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Mar 19, 2018 - 10:44am PT
One learns something new everyday. Thanks Tom.

Interestingly, "querencia" is also a metaphysical concept in the Spanish language meaning to haunt somebody.

Apparently.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Querencia
chill

climber
The fat part of the bell-curve
Mar 19, 2018 - 11:48am PT
You st00pid Americans will never learn.

Just st00pid fools blaming everything outside of your own selves.

You Americans are the real cause of your own problems...

If only we had a smoking duck instead of an orange clown to lead us out of our ignorance and into the truth.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 19, 2018 - 11:57am PT
Yeah, so cool to see David Byrne and his new work. And his analysis of Kushner - I'd hate to be Kushner, getting that notification of a "mention" from his press agent.

Meanwhile the slow march toward the precipice goes on for the WH - DT's most recent tweet: "A total WITCH HUNT with massive conflicts of interest!"

What is he SO afraid of?
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Mar 19, 2018 - 12:15pm PT
His cult will say “he’s a fighter”.

The rest of world will say “this is what a guilty person does when they are desperate”.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 19, 2018 - 12:28pm PT
The two largest economies are hugely in debt, and you think it's no biggie?

Not particularly. if we were comparatively out of balance compared to other industrial nations then I would be, but we're not.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 19, 2018 - 12:39pm PT
Wino, so I’d be good trading bonds? SWEET!
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Mar 19, 2018 - 12:44pm PT
Nah, bonds too! What I'm suggesting is aimed at large traders, over some dollar amount. Wouldn't hurt to tax the computer bot traders. You? You get a pass.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Mar 19, 2018 - 02:31pm PT
Trey Gowdy, he of Bengazi hearings fame. He is not running next election and his conscience seems to be catching up on a number of issues.

Yesterday, about McCabe
“Make no mistake — the FBI is who recommended that he be fired. It wasn’t crazy House Republicans and it wasn’t the Trump administration,” Gowdy said. “It was his own fellow bureau agents.
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Mar 19, 2018 - 02:57pm PT

zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 19, 2018 - 03:06pm PT
Yep Trump and his cronies had nuthin to do with McCabe firing

Gowdy while not a moron or idiot, is nonetheless full of schitt

blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Mar 19, 2018 - 03:34pm PT
Yep Trump and his cronies had nuthin to do with McCabe firing

Trump fired his ass at the recommendation of the professional staff.
Nice to see a little accountability, for a change.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Mar 19, 2018 - 03:51pm PT
Didn't Sessions fire the guy, in spite of the fact that Sessions has recused himself from the campaign and Russia investigation

How is that swamp draining going?
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Mar 19, 2018 - 04:12pm PT
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Mar 19, 2018 - 04:28pm PT
Didn't Sessions fire the guy, in spite of the fact that Sessions has recused himself from the campaign and Russia investigation

How is that swamp draining going?

McCabe was fired upon the recommendation of career FBI personnel (not political appointees) for lying his ass off, repeatedly, including under oath.
And Sesssions saved us taxpayers a lot of money by making sure we don't have to pay the inflated pension of some lying jerk.
Not a big fan of Magoo, but he did the right thing here. (And as I understand it no recusal was necessary as the firing was for McCabe's repeated lying, not for any other reason, but that seems like a fine point.)
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 19, 2018 - 04:37pm PT
McCabe was fired upon the recommendation of career FBI personnel (not political appointees) for lying his ass off, repeatedly, including under oath. And Sessions saved us taxpayers a lot of money by making sure we don't have to pay the inflated pension of some lying jerk. Not a big fan of Magoo, but he did the right thing here. (And as I understand it no recusal was necessary as the firing was for McCabe's repeated lying, not for any other reason, but that seems like a fine point.)

Now that's swallowing your pablum!
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Mar 19, 2018 - 05:14pm PT
Agreed....lol
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Mar 19, 2018 - 05:26pm PT
If McCabe gets another job he can get his retirement. Congressmen lining up to hire him so he will get his pension. Looks like another obstruction charge for the orange sh1t gibbon. Come on Donald, act innocent, hahahaha.
spectreman

Trad climber
Mar 19, 2018 - 05:37pm PT
McCabe hasn't lost his pension.



From Forbes Magazine:

"In fact, McCabe is all of 49 years old, likely 50 by the time readers see this, and what he lost out on was, as CNN much more calmly recounts, the ability to take his benefits at age 50, rather than somewhere between age 57 and age 62, and he lost his eligibility to a special top-up in benefit formula. These are, admittedly, tangible financial losses, but it is grossly misleading that various news outlets are giving the general public the impression that he has lost his pension entirely."
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Mar 19, 2018 - 06:40pm PT
Funny how Trump is gloating over McCabe's firing...So McCabe was fired for lying...? Does this mean Trump , a habitual liar , will suffer the same fate...?
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Mar 19, 2018 - 06:53pm PT
Apparently Mueller gave the Trump lawyers a copy of the questions he will ask Trump. Trump went ballistic when he saw them. Trump is panicking because he just realized how much Mueller knows and how much witnesses have been spilling the beans. Two choices Donnie, lie and fry or tell the truth and fry.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 19, 2018 - 06:54pm PT
Boy, the Cambridge Analytica/Facebook fire was roaring today.

The suggestion is that Facebook is going to go down hard over all this.


When the CA/FB/Russia connection to the campaign first came up, I was reminded of something that happened in the late spring of 2016. Back story: Shortly after the fall of USSR, my sister and her husband moved to Russia and lived there for a few years - maybe four. I can't recall exactly.

Anyway they had two children and the boy was like 12 years old at the start of this, so pretty much grew up there. He actually started a punk band which did pretty well, from what I gather.

Sooo....last spring, he posts on Facebook that he has some friend in Russia who will pay people $50 if they can "borrow" the Facebook pages of people. My nephew says they will just be "inserting a few ads into the pages."

I blasted the idea - said it was such a bad idea.... "When you allow someone admin access to your FB page, they can actually take control of it, and lock you out. There's really no "nice" reason someone would pay money to have access.... t's probably to post spam or malware. This is a BD idea...."

Oh, how my nephew got angry at me. He wrote "DON'T f*#k with my income."

I told hi I would delete my post, but that he should think hard before suggesting this to his friends.

An hour later, he had removed he post, and that was the last ever heard about this $50 for access to your page.



Well...... I am fairly certain this was one of the ways the Russian Trolls were able to spread their disinformation. As you may know, it's reported that they trolled under the guise of Americans.

I wonder if we will ever hear about this. You'd think it shouldn't be that hard to get the word out - "Hey - did someone offer you money to post ads on your FB?" and see where that leads.

rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Mar 19, 2018 - 07:07pm PT
Seems odd that they would give Trump the questions to the interview...That's like showing him the rope that they're going to hang him with...Maybe they were " Fake " questions..?
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 19, 2018 - 07:11pm PT
It's probably more like "In case you were thinking yu'd come in and bluster with you bigly bulldoo, here's a clue as to where the conversation will be going."

There's no escape for DT; hasn't been for a long, long time. But what is he supposed to say "Okay, now I see what you meant by collusion. My bad." He's probably been told in the early days that he'll get away with it, no problem, that people have his back, so don't worry." It simply didn't occur to him that there were ......lying.

stevep

Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
Mar 19, 2018 - 07:15pm PT
Frankly these gloating tweets Trump sent out are like what a crazed sixth grader would do.
While I didn't agree with many of the policy choices of Bush/Cheney, I didn't actually think they were megalomanic nutters. I'm starting to think the current occupant of the White House really has some actual mental issues.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Mar 19, 2018 - 07:16pm PT
Actually sending the questions in advance is a good tactic. Mueller probably already knows the answers to the questions, and has evidence to back it up. And when Trump gets asked the question under oath he can not act all confused and not sure about the answer, because he has had time to think about the questions. Mueller is one of the best prosecutors in the country, with a top shelf staff he picked. Trump has no idea of what a buzz saw he is walking into. Art of the deal is not going to help him here.

edit: prosecutor's rule #1 - do not ask a question you do not know the answer to.

Interesting story about Facebook Happie.
RussianBot

climber
Mar 19, 2018 - 07:35pm PT
Even after we got outsmarted by people we thought were stupider than we are, we still think we’re smarter than they are! If we’re not too busy approving of ourselves and our friends, take a look at who our president is, and guess again, ‘mericans.
Flip Flop

climber
Earth Planet, Universe
Mar 19, 2018 - 07:44pm PT
Much ado about nothing
This too shall pass
Like a painful turd, maybe
But it will pass

The view elsewhere
Is divine.
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 19, 2018 - 07:53pm PT
DumbDumbDumb

Read up on what actually happened.

Flip Flop

climber
Earth Planet, Universe
Mar 19, 2018 - 08:05pm PT
You just made that up. That's not a thing. Superpowers are always getting pwndeded
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Mar 19, 2018 - 08:19pm PT
Jon Beck...Any insight on Muellers question list for President Trump...?
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Mar 20, 2018 - 12:05am PT
rj - from what I have been reading Mueller gave Trump a list of topics a couple of months ago and recently gave them initial questions, stating that there would be follow-up questions based on the responses. Apparently there is focus on the Moscow trump tower deal and the Miss universe goings-on. The subpoena to the Trump organization is a good indication that Mueller is taking a close look at Trump finances.

The Comey firing has been added to the list of topics, that would include obstruction of justice.
Gimp

Trad climber
Missoula, MT & "Pourland", OR
Mar 20, 2018 - 08:11am PT
Giving McCabe another job to maximize his retirement is pretty standard operating procedures among the government elite, or leadership as they like to call themselves. Once you reach a certain level no matter how egregious you crime or act of gross incompetence this is what usually happens. I have testified (you are technically "compelled" to testify) in several actions in the government agency I work in against corrupt members of leadership doing some pretty terrible things. All were removed from their post then transferred to another agency and a created position; or assigned to a "new" project they could work on from home until their retirement was maximized. This has occurred irrespective of which party was running things.
Steve
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 20, 2018 - 08:42am PT
BPA?
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Mar 20, 2018 - 08:48am PT
Thanks Steve/Gimp.

While McCabe's firing can be justified, it's obvious is was a punitive action.

Total d@&che bag move.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Mar 20, 2018 - 09:21am PT
Thanks Steve/Gimp.

While McCabe's firing can be justified, it's obvious is was a punitive action.

Total d@&che bag move

Ha, I read Gimp's post somewhat differently.
Seems to me there is a long and sordid history of giving incompetent / corrupt high level gov officials pensions they don't deserve. Glad to see that "tradition" come to end with McCabe.
John M

climber
Mar 20, 2018 - 09:50am PT
Not everyone "knows" that McCabe was corrupt. I certainly don't. Because of the ongoing investigations that he was involved in, he hasn't been able to speak up and defend himself.

I have also seen cases of corruption that were protected. People given " jobs" that they could supposedly do from home so that they end up getting their retirement. This is sometimes done because the lawsuits that would happen are extremely expensive and time consuming. And then the outcome isn't always certain. For instance, a friend of mine was the assistant lead school psychologist for a school district. The district wanted to fire a school psychologist for incompetence. It took 2 years of my friend spending 50 percent of her work time to get that done, and then the case was overturned on appeal. So now the district is stuck with an incompetent psychologist while they figure out what to do. They chose to give this psychologist work that could be done from home because the cost and number of lawsuits that the district would have been exposed to do to this persons incompetence was deemed to be too high. From the outside is looks like the school is protecting this person. The reality is the school is protecting the kids and protecting itself from further lawsuits. Sucks that they have to do this. I don't know the solution.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Mar 20, 2018 - 09:55am PT
Sucks that they have to do this. I don't know the solution.

Gov workers should be like just about every worker in modern America: employees at will. (And the many exceptions to employment at will should be greatly reduced so we're back to the original concept: anyone can get their ass fired anytime for any reason, or no reason at all.)

Why aren't they, you may ask? Basically cuz the we live in a country with huge numbers of gov workers, they always vote Dem (with rare exceptions of course), and the Dems reward them with sweetheart contracts.

Who loses? Just the hardworking non-government employee taxpayers, but who cares about them?
John M

climber
Mar 20, 2018 - 10:06am PT
I've also seen it happen in private industry. People literally paid to just go away. Because lawsuits cost a lot and its not always easy to prove ones case.

the case I mentioned above happened in a conservative state with conservative judges.

I do not support your notion that people should be able to be fired at any time for any reason. That would allow corrupt employers to fire people right before they because vested in a retirement program or right as a person entered the steeper part of the curve of retirement benefits. You would have to change the way retirement programs work.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Mar 20, 2018 - 10:59am PT
Ha, I read Gimp's post somewhat differently.
Seems to me there is a long and sordid history of giving incompetent / corrupt high level gov officials pensions they don't deserve. Glad to see that "tradition" come to end with McCabe.

You might have a point if the Administration clarified they where ending the practice of allowing tarnished employees to stick around for retirement benefits. But no one has implied such a policy.

Also, our President is openly vindictive to anyone who challenges him.

McCabe's firing, two days before turning fifty, was punitive.
yanqui

climber
Balcarce, Argentina
Mar 20, 2018 - 11:06am PT
The claim in that video that Cambridge Analytica has worked under the radar in elections in Argentina has gotten the local papers asking around to see just what they meant. So far it's not at all clear whether it's true or they just said it because it sounds cool and conspiratorial.
Gimp

Trad climber
Missoula, MT & "Pourland", OR
Mar 20, 2018 - 11:13am PT
Healyje,
assume when you say BPA you me the whole Dupont bisphenol A fiasco.
No I was not part of that but am still an active witness in two cases so cannot say much more as serfs are punished much differently than "leadership".
Steve
WBraun

climber
Mar 20, 2018 - 11:16am PT
Oh, it's all just a conspiracy? As usual. Then the stuportopo politards will explain how it really is since they are all knowing always.

https://www.veteranstoday.com/2018/03/20/it-wasnt-the-russians-vt-right-all-along-as-mossadnik-zuckerberg-faces-the-axe/
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 20, 2018 - 12:43pm PT
So far it's not at all clear whether it's true or they just said it because it sounds cool and conspiratorial.

I dunno....Maybe they do things differently across the pond, but here in the US a company head doesn't usually roll for sounding cool and conspiratorial...


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-03-20/cambridge-analytica-s-board-suspends-ceo-nix-pending-inquiry?cmpid=socialflow-twitter-business&utm_medium=social&utm_content=business&utm_campaign=socialflow-organic&utm_source=twitter
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Mar 20, 2018 - 12:50pm PT

Facebook has been plunged into crisis over the allegations that Cambridge Analytica misused data from more than 50 million people to help elect Donald Trump. Nearly $40 billion was wiped off Facebook’s market value Monday, an emergency meeting is due to be held Tuesday morning, and CEO Mark Zuckerberg has been criticized for remaining silent during what some analysts are describing as a threat to the company’s existence.

Zuckerberg has been summoned to the British parliament to give evidence about the how it handles people’s personal data. The head of a British inquiry into ‘fake news,’ Damian Collins, has accused Facebook of previously ‘misleading’ a parliament committee, adding: “It is now time to hear from a senior Facebook executive with the sufficient authority to give an accurate account of this catastrophic failure of process.”

As anger grew toward Cambridge Analytica on Monday after Britain’s Channel 4 broadcast a report showing company executives boasting about their extreme propaganda strategies, including filming opponents in compromising situations with Ukrainian sex workers, authorities in the U.K. and the U.S. also questioned whether Facebook mishandled the alleged breach and it’s now facing damaging investigations that will further tarnish its brand.

Well, to Hillary it was surely still the Russian, yes, and not to forget Bernie...

Fact is, it was all the time Hillary with a little help from Facebook and their "allies"...
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Mar 20, 2018 - 01:26pm PT
That was a terrific OP. There are still a lot of blind Trump supporters out there, though. I had to listen to some the other night. It was surreal.

If it were possible to go back in time, and have Obama do and say the things that Trump has said and done, the country would have gone ballistic a lot sooner.

Obama said: (Insert any common Trump lie)

Obama did: (Any Daily Trump action)

Obama would have lost all support from his own party. The Republicans, with a few exceptions, have become accomplices in this farce, and they are going down in the midterms. It will be bloodshed.

If we learn anything, it should be that any future president should be an accomplished politician. Not a reality TV star. I HATE it when I hear the word "elite." It is a weasel word for mindless automatons. An elite is an accomplished person. An elite climber is appreciated. AM radio has made it sound like a cabal, which it isn't. There is no deep state.

George Will, shortly after Trump's elections, when he was lying about his greatest ever electoral college win and other bald lies, said this:

"The American People decided to treat the Presidency as an entry level political position. This is what they get."

George Will is perhaps the brightest conservative voice.

As for our future, if he manages somehow to fire Mueller, I lean only on hope that the Republican majority will do the right thing instead of being silent accomplices to his daily shenanigans.

Trump's presidency will be a nightmare that this country will not forget for a long time. Now I listen to a guy like Kasich, and wonder why he didn't get the nomination......

I agree that his recent behavior, along with full blast cooperation from Hannity and State TV, have given him a false sense of comfort. If you watch Fox right now, they have been willing accomplices in this from the start. Hannity has been screaming at him to fire Mueller for months now. Half of the right now believe that there was some prescient cabal just waiting to drill Trump if he were elected. People aren't that smart. Hiding a conspiracy in this country is virtually impossible.

The tax bill was not bipartisan. I watched the hearing. Orrin Hatch, the committee chair, was the only Republican in the room while various Democrats offered fairly modest and sensible amendments to the bill. Afterwards, the Republicans all showed up within ten minutes of each other and voted down every amendment, even though they hadn't listened to a single one. Then they claimed that they had had hearings.

Right now, CSPAN is the hottest show on TV.
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Mar 20, 2018 - 01:34pm PT

Hiding a conspiracy in this country is virtually impossible.

Another part of the problem is that Trump supporters as most Republicans are willing to accept any conspiracy theory that support the belief they already have. And showing them proof that the theory is wrong will only strengthen their belief in the theory...

yanqui

climber
Balcarce, Argentina
Mar 20, 2018 - 01:42pm PT
Happiegrrl2: I'm talking about the news channel's claim that C.A. "worked under the radar in elections in Argentina." I have no idea if that is true or false, but local news groups are trying to follow up on it, for example here: https://www.lanacion.com.ar/2118520-un-noticiero-britanico-denuncio-que-cambridge-analytica-la-empresa-involucrada-en-el-escandalo-de-facebook-habria-operado-en-elecciones-en-la-argentina and here: https://www.clarin.com/politica/cambridge-analytica-empresa-involucrada-escandalo-facebook-operado-elecciones-argentina_0_HJMfS6aFM.html. I was suggesting the possibility that the news channel said this about Argentina (perhaps also because they had some stock footage of Argentina easily available) to make things look more cool and conspiratorial in their video. On the other hand, maybe they have solid evidence of this. I don't know. Cheers!
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Mar 20, 2018 - 01:51pm PT
These are the important things to remember:
economy is doing great,
stock market doing mostly great (yeah a little recent turbulence, but still very good post election),
finally got the North Koreans a little rattled,
some of the stuffed shirts in Washington are getting some well-deserved eye pokes . . .

Yeah Trump comes across as a bit of a goofball, but you can't argue with results.
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Mar 20, 2018 - 02:14pm PT
You forgot con man, traitor and sexual predator. Goof ball is what a true tRumpy cultist would call it.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Mar 20, 2018 - 02:37pm PT
....Trump comes across as a bit of a goofball ....
A BIT of a goofball? He's an amoral, egocentric, incurious, ethic-less, traitorous orange ass.
Splater

climber
Grey Matter
Mar 20, 2018 - 02:46pm PT
Don't forget

Wealth Inequality at an All time High (thank you 25 years of tax cuts for the rich)

Ecosystem Plundering Surging

Corruption by White House at an All time High

Trade War starting on steel & aluminum with backwards penalties for our allies

Avg IQ dropping due to Irrational faux news by trumpeteers
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Mar 20, 2018 - 03:53pm PT
. . . whore chasing, greedy, disgusting little pervert, worst husband, and pathetic dad . . .

other than that he is a great guy
WBraun

climber
Mar 20, 2018 - 03:58pm PT
He's just front man for all the criminals behind him which you st00pid brainwashed politard loons are clueless to.

Get rid of the frontman and those very same criminals behind him will remain.

They are embedded.

You loons are insanely obsessed with this one guy frontman who's there to take all the heat off the real criminals in your usurped American system ......
Splater

climber
Grey Matter
Mar 20, 2018 - 04:24pm PT
We are all well aware of the extent to which big industry bribes government, and how donnytrump is only making that corruption worse.

Cohn, formerly the No. 2 at Goldman Sachs, blamed Congress for Trump's failure, and Fox Business reported that Blackstone, Carlyle, and KKR did funnel "massive amounts of campaign cash into the coffers of Republican leaders in the House and the Senate as these same lawmakers voted for a tax bill that preserves the so-called carried interest loophole." But they also cited people "close to the tax bill process" who said "the White House didn't make ending the loophole a priority," citing "Trump's close relationship with Blackstone chief Steve Schwarzman, a key outside economic adviser."

On Fox Business, Trish Regan slammed Trump and his team for allowing "fat cat private equity investors" to keep lower tax rates "than a New York City cop." America's "founding fathers never, ever anticipated a swamp like the one we have today," she said.

http://theweek.com/speedreads/744852/wall-street-titans-seem-have-done-particularly-well-under-final-gop-tax-plan
yanqui

climber
Balcarce, Argentina
Mar 20, 2018 - 04:33pm PT
Most excellent use of adjectives, The Warbler!
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Mar 20, 2018 - 04:55pm PT
I'll try adverbs to $10, yanqui. Trump is an evil, twisted, self serving, narcissistic, uncaring, serial, bloated lying excuse for a human being. I think I got adverbs right. The verb would be 'lying'.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Mar 20, 2018 - 05:45pm PT
LOL.
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 20, 2018 - 06:01pm PT
The one not from Merced must be Tom

Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Mar 20, 2018 - 06:08pm PT
Pretty f*#king good locker. Laughing my ass off!!!
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 20, 2018 - 06:08pm PT
Did ya hear that Trump called Putin to congratulate him on his latest killing?

This ain't your standard KKK meeting.


The nerve of the guy. Enough to novichok you.

Lennox

climber
in the land of the blind
Mar 20, 2018 - 06:16pm PT
I think I got adverbs right. The verb would be 'lying'.

The verb is "is."

But those are all still excellent adjectives describing Trump.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Mar 20, 2018 - 06:37pm PT
Trump congratulated Putin in spite of the fact that his top advisers gave him a note card that said DO NOT CONGRATULATE PUTIN

Nobody would have learned this minor detail but for the Russians letting the cat out of the bag. That pee pee tape must be a doozy.
WBraun

climber
Mar 20, 2018 - 06:41pm PT
You are a brainwashed idiot Jon Beck .....
eeyonkee

Trad climber
Golden, CO
Mar 20, 2018 - 06:42pm PT
Trump is going down! If their is a pulse in American democracy and belief in our roots, this will happen. What are we, 1930s Germany, Japan, or Italy?
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Mar 20, 2018 - 06:54pm PT
nice, real nice
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Mar 20, 2018 - 07:19pm PT
Cracks in the dam...

Fox News analyst quits, rips network as a “propaganda machine” in letter to colleagues

http://flip.it/v.sMPj
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 20, 2018 - 07:23pm PT
At this late stage, I haven't much respect for those who are finally realizing they have to escape the Trumpacolypse. I mean, really... It was hunky dory until NOW?

It should have become obvious to anyone with a brain that they could not afford to be associated with this, this, "thing," about a year ago. What were they waiting for?
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Mar 20, 2018 - 07:26pm PT
I have wondered why so many folks decided to "hate Hillary."

This breaking news helps to explain that particular "Brainwashing" of so many Americans.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/cambridge-analytica-execs-boast-of-role-in-getting-trump-elected/ar-BBKtQMM?li=BBnb7Kz&pfr=1

Senior executives from the firm at the heart of Facebook’s data breach boasted of playing a key role in bringing Donald Trump to power and said they used “unattributable and untrackable” advertising to support their clients in elections, according to an undercover expose.

In secretly recorded conversations, Cambridge Analytica’s CEO, Alexander Nix, claimed he had met Trump “many times”, while another senior member of staff said the firm was behind the “defeat crooked Hillary” advertising campaign.

“We just put information into the bloodstream of the internet and then watch it grow, give it a little push every now and again over time to watch it take shape,” said the executive. “And so this stuff infiltrates the online community, but with no branding, so it’s unattributable, untrackable.”

Caught on camera by an undercover team from Channel 4 News, Nix was also dismissive of Democrats on the House intelligence committee, who had questioned him over Russian meddling in the 2016 campaign.

Senior managers then appeared to suggest that in their work for US clients, there was planned division of work between official campaigns and unaffiliated “political action groups”.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 20, 2018 - 07:27pm PT
Pretty simple, if you think trump is doing a good job and striving to make the lives of middle class and blue collar families better and more secure then you're a frigging moron and deserve the ass-shagging you're getting from him.
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Mar 20, 2018 - 07:57pm PT
Happy, It's not about forgiveness or exoneration- ideologues are bailing from their deepest instincts. These are signs of a bellwether.

Once the loyal pundits, along with the Congressional and Senatorial rats that fill the ranks of Trumps Praetorian guard are sure of his demise, they will jump ship. Be sure that their exit plan has been in place for some time.

I'd like to see Trump drawn and quartered with his fat head on a spike but I expect no such gratification.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Mar 20, 2018 - 08:17pm PT
Good stuff Tom. Interesting conundrum, the greedy meglomaniac.

Insults from a guy who relies on Veterans Today as a primary source is a badge of honor. Quack on werner
10b4me

Social climber
Lida Junction
Mar 20, 2018 - 09:23pm PT
I am beginning to think that obstruction of justice, not collusion, will bring drumpf down.
also, I am thinking that Stormy Daniels has the goods on him.
Bruce Morris

Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
Mar 20, 2018 - 10:51pm PT
As has already been pointed out, if Stormy didn't have something on DT, why wouldn't he be subjecting her to one of his typical Tweet-storms? She must have something pretty lurid to let out of the bag, but probably not on 60-minutes this Sunday. Must be saving it up for a more strategic moment.
Bruce Morris

Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
Mar 20, 2018 - 11:28pm PT
I was guessing, Might Hiker, it could be either tiny pathetic penis or even more humiliating - performance failure? A whore generally has no mercy for a client with those two traits.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Mar 21, 2018 - 07:51am PT
My wife asked why I carry a gun in the house. I replied "government spying". She laughed. I laughed. Alexa laughed. I shot alexa. Good times! ;-)
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Mar 21, 2018 - 12:06pm PT
Must see. A great illustration of motivated reasoning from 'Now This'...

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/heres-stunning-video-of-fox-news-anchors-bashing-obama-for-saying-hed-meet-with-noko-and-doing-a-total-180-for-trump/


I first saw it a couple days ago. I'm glad to see it getting around. So telling.



FFS...
7SacredPools

Trad climber
Ontario, Canada
Mar 21, 2018 - 12:22pm PT
Classic spin.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Mar 21, 2018 - 01:04pm PT
Even if you can't get around all of Trump's policies or his personality, and hey I have some issues there myself, it's still important to rally around the president for the good of the markets if nothing else.

I think this Mueller investigation may be spooking the markets and at least partly responsible for the recent downturn.

Look at the incredible returns we've had from the election until the recent dip. Who cares if there may have been a little "collusion," if some of Trump's cabinet may have some fine taste in travel and furniture (at the taxpayers' expense), or if the president isn't likely to be nominated for most virtuous person of the year?

Market returns are what we're after and Trump has been a winner so far, so we should support him as long as he can keep delivering the goods!
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Mar 21, 2018 - 01:12pm PT
Mueller is not “spooking”your precious returns,It is the brat who could not organize a rockfight that is responsible for that.
Bruce Morris

Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
Mar 21, 2018 - 01:46pm PT
Mighty Hiker: I just had an inspiration regarding what Stormy might have on Trumposaurus and how it relates to the Buzzfeed allegations about his behavior with the whores in the Moscow hotel room. Perhaps the cat that will "Storm" out of the bag is that Sir Donald is indeed a urolagniac! That he likes to see bought women go wee-wee in front of him. Consider that revelation for a moment, especially if some of the other women suing him can confirm it. Smash bang front page news nationwide and worldwide. No wonder DT is avoiding provoking Stormy with nasty tweets.

Best not to have a kink like that if one is POTUS and can be blackmailed for his sexual idiosyncrasies. Think of Donald making the State of the Union Address to Congress while everyone in the room is looking at him, giggling, and imagining him watching young girls pee.

Me thinks this is going to get real good before it's over . . .

Of course, DT is in good company. Seem to recall that Chuck Berry had this same problem. Getting really jaded has its drawbacks I guess . . .
John M

climber
Mar 21, 2018 - 01:51pm PT
Even if you can't get around all of Trump's policies or his personality, and hey I have some issues there myself, it's still important to rally around the president for the good of the markets if nothing else.

I think this Mueller investigation may be spooking the markets and at least partly responsible for the recent downturn.

Look at the incredible returns we've had from the election until the recent dip. Who cares if there may have been a little "collusion," if some of Trump's cabinet may have some fine taste in travel and furniture (at the taxpayers' expense), or if the president isn't likely to be nominated for most virtuous person of the year?

Market returns are what we're after and Trump has been a winner so far, so we should support him as long as he can keep delivering the goods!

D-

:not one of your better trolls. Lacks conviction. Infantile at best. try harder please. What would your President think of you? We expect our students here at TROLLS INC to Excel !!! You can do It !!! Make trolling GREAT again !!!
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Mar 21, 2018 - 02:40pm PT
So now it is "stock market performance" that is the real reason to praise Donald Trump?

Really? If market performance is your voting criteria then you voted for Obama.

The stock market as measured by S&P 500 largest companies was up a whopping 233% while President Obama was in office

And the market continued its strong linear rise throughout and very likely would have continued regardless of who became President. The economy turned around from being in a Republican Recession when President Obama took office to being in the longest sustained bull market in US history. To give Trump credit for this is ludicrous.

The rise under Trump was due to the expectation that the Republican controlled congress would cut taxes, thus greatly increasing the profits of the corporations.
That gain is now baked in, and now the fact that the tax cut deprives the treasury of some 1 and half trillion dollars in income, the market can now worry about the national debt and interest payments to our bond and not holders increasing.
Oh how Republicans screamed and cried over the rising national debt, and now when they are in charge they think nothing of exploding the debt by one and half trillion dollars. Hypocrites.

So, just how ignorant are Trump voters really?


Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Mar 21, 2018 - 03:04pm PT
Norton beat me to it. under blah's theory, not only did Obama create a rising market, he turned a crashed market around first.

If the market crashes are you going to blame the sitting president?

To be clear I do not think the sitting president has real control over the market. Policy decisions have a very remote effect on the markets, and are tough to accurately identify.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Mar 21, 2018 - 03:24pm PT
If the market crashes are you going to blame the sitting president?

Of course not!!! It'll be Obama's fault. It seems hard for Republicans to remember, with all the 'deep state' FBI bashing, but the FBI sank Hillary in the final days of the election.
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Mar 21, 2018 - 03:55pm PT
History will judge, and if Nixon was alive he would be happy to finally have someone to look down on.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 21, 2018 - 04:36pm PT
regarding what Stormy might have on Trumposaurus and how it relates to the Buzzfeed allegations about his behavior with the whores in the Moscow hotel room. Perhaps the cat that will "Storm" out of the bag is that Sir Donald is indeed a urolagniac! That he likes to see bought women go wee-wee in front of him.

Ummm, no. Besides - that's BARELY even kinky.

Rumor surrounding IC says it is nothing so light. What it is said to be is forced sex with underage girls sold into into sexwork slavery, with an accidental death of one of the girls.

blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Mar 21, 2018 - 04:53pm PT
Rumor surrounding IC says it is nothing so light. What it is said to be is forced sex with underage girls sold into into sexwork slavery, with an accidental death of one of the girls.

So the theory is Stormy knew all about this but decided to take Trump's lawyer's money rather than disclose it to the authorities? Sounds like a real class act.
Bruce Morris

Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
Mar 21, 2018 - 05:11pm PT
Rumor surrounding IC says it is nothing so light. What it is said to be is forced sex with underage girls sold into into sexwork slavery, with an accidental death of one of the girls.

Bet there are pimps in Richmond, California with heavier charges against them that those. Still, if true (which I rather doubt), DT has moved into the big leagues.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 21, 2018 - 05:43pm PT
So the theory is Stormy knew all about this but decided to take Trump's lawyer's money rather than disclose it to the authorities? Sounds like a real class act.

I have never heard Stormy Daniels mentioned in relation to underage girls and DT.

Bet there are pimps in Richmond, California with heavier charges against them that those. Still, if true (which I rather doubt), DT has moved into the big leagues.

1) While it's disgusting and frightening to imagine ANY man sexually brutalizing a person to the point they are killed, generally we don't expect to have a president of the country behave that way.

2) Why do you "rather doubt" it? FWIW, the sources where I have read this have been correct on just about every detail that has come out with regard to the Trumpocalypse. And well ahead of it being reported on usual news outlets.

3) What do you mean "moved into the big leagues?" Usually one would use that phrase in relationship with an accomplishment. Killing a child, while raping her, doesn't fall into that category. Unless your a very sick individual.

4) You are aware, I hope, that teenaged girls, and boys, are DAILY - in THIS country - being manipulated into being trafficked as sex workers, aren't you?

If an average Joe Schmoe has no compunction about screwing a child, and seems oblivious to the connection of that child working in the sex trade being....wrong...what makes you think that rich men who like power wouldn't pay money to beat the hell out of them? This is part of what makes the Russian mob so sinister. They will do A.N.Y.T.H.I.N.G to make money.(edit) And they will stoop to any depth to compromise and control someone.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Mar 21, 2018 - 05:55pm PT
The history of Trump sexual assaults

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2017/nov/30/donald-trump-sexual-misconduct-allegations-full-list

He was like an octopus … His hands were everywhere.”
Jessica Leeds
Age 38 Year: 1980s Location: A first-class cabin of a plane

Leeds alleges Trump groped grabbed her breasts and tried to put his hand up her skirt. Source: The New York Times

"I referred to this as a ‘rape’, but I do not want my words to be interpreted in a literal or criminal sense."
Ivana Trump
Age 40 Year: 1989 Location: The master bedroom of the Trump Tower triplex

In a divorce deposition, Trump's first wife used "rape" to describe an incident that transpired between them. After a settlement was reached, and the rape allegation became public in a 1993 book, Ivana softened the claim. As part of her nondisclosure agreement, she is not allowed to discuss her marriage to Trump without his permission. Source: Lost Tycoon: The Many Lives of Donald J Trump

“He pushed me up against the wall, and had his hands all over me and tried to get up my dress again.”
Jill Harth
Age Early 30s Year: 1993 Location: One of the children's bedrooms at Trump's Mar-a-Lago estate

A former business partner, Harth alleges Trump forcibly kissed her on the lips and groped her breasts and grabbed her genitals, in what she referred to in a 1997 lawsuit as "attempted rape". On a previous occasion, she alleges, he groped her under the table during dinner with colleagues at the Plaza Hotel. Source: The Guardian

"He did touch my vagina through my underwear."
Kristen Anderson
Age Early 20s Year: Early 1990s Location: China Club, a Manhattan nightclub

Anderson alleges Trump put his hand up her skirt and touched her genitals through her underwear. Source: The Washington Post

“[Trump] stuck his head right underneath their skirts.”
Lisa Boyne
Age 25 Year: 1996 Location: A New York restaurant

Boyne alleges Trump insisted the female models walk across the table and that he looked up their skirts, commenting on whether they were wearing underwear and their genitalia. Source: The Huffington Post

“He took my hand, and grabbed me, and went for the lips.”
Cathy Heller
Age 44 Year: 1997 Location: A Mother’s Day brunch at Mar-a-Lago

Heller alleges Trump forcibly kissed her on the lips in public. Source: The Guardian

“He kissed me directly on the lips."
Temple Taggart
Age 21 Year: 1997 Location: A 1997 Miss USA pageant event and in Trump Tower

The former Miss Utah alleges Trump forcibly kissed her on the mouth on two occassions, including the first time she met him. Source: The New York Times

"I remember putting on my dress really quick because I was like, 'Oh my God, there’s a man in here.'"
Mariah Billado
Age 18 Year: 1997 Location: Backstage at the 1997 Miss Teen USA pageant

The former Miss Vermont Teen USA and other unnamed accusers allege Trump walked into the dressing room unannounced while teen beauty queens aged 15 to 19 were naked. Source: BuzzFeed

"Then his hand touched the right side of my breast. I was in shock."
Karena Virginia
Age 27 Year: 1998 Location: Waiting for a car after the US Open in New York

Virginia alleges Trump grabbed her arm and touched her breast. Source: Gloria Allred press event
“The time that he walked through the dressing rooms was really shocking. We were all naked.”
Bridget Sullivan
Age 19 Year: 2000 Location: Backstage at the 2000 Miss USA pageant

The former Miss New Hampshire alleges Trump walked in to the dressing room unannounced while contestants were naked. Source: BuzzFeed

"Our first introduction to him was when we were at the dress rehearsal and half-naked changing into our bikinis.”
Tasha Dixon
Age 19 Year: 2001 Location: Backstage at the 2001 Miss USA pageant

The former Miss Arizona alleges Trump entered dressing rooms while her fellow contestants were "half-naked". Source: CBS News

“All of a sudden I felt a grab, a little nudge."
Melinda McGillivray
Age 23 Year: 2003 Location: At Mar-a-Lago during a concert by Ray Charles

McGillivray alleges Trump grabbed her buttock in a pavilion behind the main house in the middle of a group of people. Source: Palm Beach Post
"I was thinking ‘Oh, he’s going to hug me’, but when he pulled my face in and gave me a smooch. I was like ‘Oh – kay.’"
Jennifer Murphy
Age 26 Year: 2005 Location: Outside an elevator after an interview

The former contestant on The Apprentice alleges Trump forcibly kissed her after a job interview.

“[Trump] kissed me directly on the mouth.”
Rachel Crooks
Age 22 Year: 2005 Location: Outside the elevator in Trump Tower

Crooks alleges Trump kissed her forcibly on the lips. Source: New York Times

"I turned around, and within seconds he was pushing me against the wall and forcing his tongue down my throat."
Natasha Stoynoff
Age 40 Year: 2005 Location: A closed-door room in Mar-a-Lago

Stoynoff alleges Trump forcibly kissed her. Source: People

“Trump stood right next to me and suddenly he squeezed my butt."
Ninni Laaksonen
Age 20 Year: 2006 Location: Outside the Ed Sullivan Theater before an appearance on The Late Show with David Letterman

The former Miss Finland alleges Trump grabbed her buttocks during a photoshoot before an appearance on The Late Show with David Letterman. Source: Finnish newspaper Ilta-Sanomat

"When we entered the room he grabbed each of us tightly in a hug and kissed each of us on the lips without asking for permission."
Jessica Drake
Age 32 Year: 2006 Location: A golf tournament in Lake Tahoe

Drake alleges Trump forcibly kissed her and two female friends on the lips and when rebuffed, pursued her, asking: "How much?" Source: Gloria Allred press event

"He would step in front of each girl and look you over from head to toe like we were just meat, we were just sexual objects, that we were not people."
Samantha Holvey
Age 20 Year: 2006 Location: Miss USA 2006 pageant

The former Miss North Carolina alleges Trump would barge into the pageant dressing room and inspected women like "meat". Source: CNN

“He then grabbed my shoulder and began kissing me again very aggressively and placed his hand on my breast."
Summer Zervos
Age Early 30s Year: 2007 Location: Trump Tower and a hotel in Los Angeles

The former contestant on The Apprentice has accused Trump of groping and kissing her on two occasions. She has filed a defamation claim against the now-president. Source: Gloria Allred press event

“He probably doesn’t want me telling the story about that time he continually grabbed my ass and invited me to his hotel room.”
Cassandra Searles
Age 24 Year: 2013 Location: Miss USA 2013 pageant

The former Miss Washington 2013 alleges in a comment on Facebook that Trump repeatedly grabbed her buttocks and invited her to his hotel room. Source: Facebook, via Yahoo News
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 21, 2018 - 06:49pm PT
The second rule of CIA-style is don't draw attention to yourself when doing it CIA-style.


Trump and his henchmen might have gotten away with their prior crimes, if they hadn't attracted public scrutiny to themselves. They're like small-town bank robbers who are suddenly driving around in Ferraris.


Probably the best example, so far, is Paul Manafort. He was just some low-rent political operative conducting shady business on behalf of Putin in the Ukraine. Then, he became Trump's campaign manager, and became a primary focus of election investigations. He is now facing 300 years in prison for crimes unrelated to his time with Trump, and will probably be indicted for campaign-related crimes, too.

Jared Kushner's fraudulent real estate dealings would probably have gone unnoticed, if he hadn't photo-bombed himself into every Oval Office picture of the past 15 months. The NYC Department of Buildings is now compelled to conduct a full investigation into Kushner's prior business in the city.

Of course, Trump is the king of hubris, wearing an imaginary invisibility cloak. He has lived his entire adult life in the headlines, actively pushing himself on reporters. Suddenly, though, he thinks his past is unknowable, and that nobody will ever find out what he has done. He condemns his past to a magical memory-hole by chanting, "FAKE NEWS!"

It's not working.



EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Mar 21, 2018 - 06:53pm PT
OK, Trump's a pig. Sounds like a whole lotta groping.

Where was everyone, when women (Clinton supporters) were coming forward, accusing President Clinton of RAPE?

"You better put some ice on that?"
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 21, 2018 - 07:11pm PT
The Fox News mantra, "But, what about . . . . .?" is the most primitive and childish distraction mechanism on TV today.

Fox News has made But-What-Aboutism the de facto standard of their their so-called reporting. Their viewers aren't educated enough to know that even the ancient Greeks were able to see through that kind of false logic.


Just because Clinton was a pig doesn't give Trump permission to be a pig. If that were true, to any degree at all, Trump would be invoking Harvey Weinstein on twitter and on TV.



Actually, it wouldn't surprise me at all if Trump starts claiming that the sexual misconduct allegations are the fault of Harvey Weinstein, who is the real villain in the various Trump sex scandals ("that guy ruined it for everybody else").




Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 21, 2018 - 07:11pm PT
I well remember the Clinton times, and saying what a pig he was. And yes - many people said "His personal life has nothing to do with his ability to be president."

Bill Clinton was definitely a sex addict. He was also a hanger-arounder of that Epstein dude(as was Donald Trump), who was actually arrested for sex with minors, if I recall right.


But bringing up Bill Clinton, as his actions pertain to Donald Trump, is a little bit like if someone chose the name of one of the guys on this site who has been accused of rape, and pointing a finger at him.

Yeah - ALL BAD MEN.

But only one of them is currently our president.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 21, 2018 - 07:21pm PT
Here's one from the Way Back Machine, for those old enough to remember Clinton:


I'm sorry that I inserted a cigar into Chelsea's proxy, and then smoked it down.



zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 21, 2018 - 07:30pm PT
Clinton was last President in 2001 (Space Odyssey?)

Anyway Trump is stupid and hires even more stupid people to work for him.




RussianBot

climber
Mar 21, 2018 - 09:34pm PT
Which of those allegations came out after we moral leaders elected him to be our president?

Sure it’s entertaining, and yes it repulses me, and no doubt in our mind’s eye we see it as a bull’s last stand.

And Trump is still president. And we’re still feeding Facebook (and supertopo?) the data for the next information weapon. 50 million users data went into electing Trump. Me? You? Surely not we moral leaders.

I had to laugh watching Zuckerbergs interview today. Who could have possibly foreseen that this data might fall into the wrong hands? When someone makes a commitment to not misuse the data, he said, he doesn’t know about us, but he trusts them!

Right. No way Trump could possibly win this election, with we moral leaders doing our moral thing. Sure, moral. OK. How could we possibly have seen this coming?
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Mar 21, 2018 - 09:35pm PT
Forget the womanizing, the real corruption lies with Kushner trying to start a war against Qatar because they denied his family a loan. Just breaking is a story about Nader and Brody influence pedaling for U.A.E.

It will be huge, Mueller is on it, Nader got immunity so he has good beta.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 21, 2018 - 10:26pm PT
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Jared Kushner may prove to be the most dangerous character in the Trump pandaeon. He certainly is a sneaky guy who can't keep his security clearance application fiction straight.

The Kushner family has direct ties to Benjamin Netanyahu, the Israeli Prime Minister. When Jared was in Israel last year, Netanyahu lauded him with, What A Guy.

Kushner pushed Trump to declare Jerusalem the capital of Israel, which was a highly dangerous and irresponsible thing to do. UN Ambassador Nikki Haley doubled-down on that, saying, "It's what the American people want", which is exactly what the Palestinians see as a big problem: Americans arrogantly impressing their pro-Israeli bias upon them.

Jared Kushner and his family have relatives in Israel that engage in corruption and bribery as a normal course of doing business. Jared's business ties to them violate the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, regardless of whether or not he engaged in any corrupt activity himself.


Special Counsel Mueller didn't hesitate to indict Paul Manfort for money laundering that was unrelated to Trump. Jared Kushner is next in line at the loading chute, and will soon meet the man with the steel snippers.








EDIT:

I did a double-take when I saw this headline:

TV personality known for playing Bozo the Clown dies
Bruce Morris

Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
Mar 21, 2018 - 11:02pm PT
What do you mean "moved into the big leagues?" Usually one would use that phrase in relationship with an accomplishment. Killing a child, while raping her, doesn't fall into that category. Unless your a very sick individual.

I meant that there are pimps in Richmond who have done far worse than that. There are people in the sex trade who routinely live absolutely despicable lives.

Haven't heard anything to the effect that DT actually killed an underaged girl while having sex with her. If that's the case, this is going to morph into a criminal case quite quickly, isn't it? If the allegation is true, that is.
nah000

climber
now/here
Mar 22, 2018 - 01:16am PT
spending time focusing on trump is kind of like focusing in on a kernel of corn thinking maybe that’s what caused your last diarrhea shItfest...

cause let’s see... there’s trump... then there’s pence... then there is ryan... and then turtleman... and then a whole one side of congress filled with snivelling sycophants backing the whole shIt show.

and on the other side of the congress you’ve got screams of RUSSIA11111!!!11!1; of EMOLUMENTS CLAUSE111!1!1!111; of STORMY111!1!1!111!; or of whatever the talking point du hour being spewed down by the talking heads that rain down from the sky is...



but what pray tell is the democrat’s plan?



while i still posit the smart money is in trump being gone around this summer [as i’ve now argued for the last year] still the whole charade is just a distraction...

without a plan that goes beyond the BENGHAZI111!1!1!111 like obsession that the u.s. centre right [aka the “left”] is currently indulging in...

well... it’s just the political entertainment complex’s contribution to fulfilling the latter part of the good ole bread and mother fUcking circuses portion of the common law contract that those in power have with the plebs...
WBraun

climber
Mar 22, 2018 - 07:46am PT
Exactly Nah000.

Politards are idiots .....
10b4me

Social climber
Lida Junction
Mar 22, 2018 - 07:57am PT
Jared Kushner may prove to be the most dangerous character in the Trump pandaeon. He certainly is a sneaky guy who can't keep his security clearance application fiction straight.

that dude is a creepy looking guy. He's got that permanent smirk on his face.
chill

climber
The fat part of the bell-curve
Mar 22, 2018 - 08:00am PT
Even if you can't get around all of Trump's policies or his personality, and hey I have some issues there myself, it's still important to rally around the president for the good of the markets if nothing else.

Dumbass.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Mar 22, 2018 - 08:04am PT
Robert F. Kennedy
April 5, 1968

When you teach a man to hate and fear his brother, when you teach that he is a lesser man because of his color or his beliefs or the policies he pursues, when you teach that those who differ from you threaten your freedom or your job or your family, then you also learn to confront others not as fellow citizens but as enemies - to be met not with cooperation but with conquest, to be subjugated and mastered...

We must admit the vanity of our false distinctions among men and learn to find our own advancement in the search for the advancement of all. We must admit in ourselves that our own children's future cannot be built on the misfortunes of others. We must recognize that this short life can neither be ennobled or enriched by hatred or revenge.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 22, 2018 - 08:04am PT
The Trump Crime Family is now the head of State

The Donald is nothing more than bully crime boss that scammed his way to the top
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Mar 22, 2018 - 08:35am PT
From the New York Times......
The president’s lead lawyer for the special counsel investigation, John Dowd, resigned on Thursday, according to two people briefed on the matter, days after the president called for an end to the inquiry.
When your lawyers start quitting...... you've got a problem.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Mar 22, 2018 - 08:50am PT
Ted Olson told Trump to FOAD when asked to join his legal team. Olson is one of the best
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Mar 22, 2018 - 09:28am PT
TV personality known for playing Bozo the Clown dies

Larry Harmon was the real Bozo. Although Willard Scott spent a few years in that lucrative gig.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Mar 22, 2018 - 09:37am PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Mar 22, 2018 - 09:45am PT
FOAD?

FOAD means "F*** Off And Die" So now you know -

lol
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Mar 22, 2018 - 09:52am PT
^^^^
the point being that the best lawyers are telling Trump to FOAD when asked to represent him.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 22, 2018 - 10:05am PT
but what pray tell is the democrat’s plan?

Haven't you been paying attention? Alabama. Pennsylvania.

the Dems take back the Congress, providing a brake on the actions of the President, with the possibility of removal from office if the right stuff emerges.

With the majority, comes the power of hearings and subpoena, which the Repubs have suppressed to their benefit.
chill

climber
The fat part of the bell-curve
Mar 22, 2018 - 10:10am PT
tiny pathetic penis or even more humiliating - performance failure? A whore generally has no mercy for a client with those two traits.

Bruce Morris - How do you know this?
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 22, 2018 - 10:33am PT

Haven't heard anything to the effect that DT actually killed an underaged girl while having sex with her. If that's the case, this is going to morph into a criminal case quite quickly, isn't it? If the allegation is true, that is.


Yes, it's quite clear you have no intention of accepting this as a possible thing that actually happened.

Do I know it for a fact? No, I do not, of course. But as I have said many times over this last year - the people where I have been getting "Trumpocalyspe" information on, have been shown to be correct, and ahead of mainstream media reporting, often by months. On pretty much every single facet of the entire mess. This part of the story was one facet that came out over the whole "pee pee tape" saga. But what the hell - people laughed off the possibility that Trump campaign had anything to do with Russian election manipulation all the way up until about a week ago....and I had been reading the sources of THAT reporting way back LAST MARCH.

So, spare me the patronizing text.


dirtbag

climber
Mar 22, 2018 - 11:05am PT
Stormy will say they had sex several times in and around 2006 while he was married. That in itself is still quite a revelation, but considering she had previously described sex with Donald as “vanilla” I doubt any kinky or weird beans will be spilled.


And Willard as Bozo is creepy.
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Mar 22, 2018 - 11:11am PT
I bet The Donald killed Vince Foster, too.
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Mar 22, 2018 - 11:18am PT
No, but remember when Trump threw out the new Kennedy assassination theory?

I think Trump was the second gun man...
dirtbag

climber
Mar 22, 2018 - 11:19am PT
After seeing that photo, I think Willard Scott killed Vince foster.
Lennox

climber
in the land of the blind
Mar 22, 2018 - 11:20am PT
Just a REMINDER to the TRUMP lovers...

TRUMP likes to be PEE'd on...

So he's perfect for you ALL...




August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Mar 22, 2018 - 11:45am PT
Of course, Trump is the king of hubris, wearing an imaginary invisibility cloak. He has lived his entire adult life in the headlines, actively pushing himself on reporters. Suddenly, though, he thinks his past is unknowable, and that nobody will ever find out what he has done. He condemns his past to a magical memory-hole by chanting, "FAKE NEWS!"

It's not working.

Seems to be working so far.

the Dems take back the Congress, providing a brake on the actions of the President, with the possibility of removal from office if the right stuff emerges.

In the House maybe. But Dems aren't likely to have 2/3 of the Senate.

I could see Trump firing Mueller and/or some report with all the "right" stuff coming out and R's saying "so what" and go on supporting Trump.
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Mar 22, 2018 - 12:07pm PT
I well remember the Clinton times, and saying what a pig he was. And yes - many people said "His personal life has nothing to do with his ability to be president."

Bill Clinton was definitely a sex addict. He was also a hanger-arounder of that Epstein dude(as was Donald Trump), who was actually arrested for sex with minors, if I recall right.

That a married politician is sleeping around doesn't automatically bother me. Now if a male politician goes on and on about family values and gets caught paying a male prostitute for sex, yes they should be hammered for that.

That Bill Clinton was a womanizer didn't bother me. I did figure it was mostly between him and Hillary.

At the time, the media didn't really take the sexual harrassment charges against him seriously and neither did I. In retrospect the charges against him and a lot of other people should have been taken more seriously. That society is now doing so is a positive change.

I think the sexual harrassment charges against Trump should be taken seriously. Although if I was going to make a list of the top 20 reasons why Trump should be impeached, I doubt it would make the list.

Although the fact that Trump has paid hush money to women is really troubling and that might make the list for reasons for impeachment. Hush money opens up the possibility of blackmail. Given that Trump doesn't seem to have a problem with paying hush money, how much more hush money has Trump paid that we don't know about? Who is able to ask for political favors as a result of that?

I hope Mueller sheds some light on all of that.
BooDawg

Social climber
Butterfly Town
Mar 22, 2018 - 01:29pm PT
Although the fact that Trump has paid hush money to women is really troubling and that might make the list for reasons for impeachment. Hush money opens up the possibility of blackmail. Given that Trump doesn't seem to have a problem with paying hush money, how much more hush money has Trump paid that we don't know about? Who is able to ask for political favors as a result of that?

I hope Mueller sheds some light on all of that.

DITTO!
10b4me

Social climber
Lida Junction
Mar 22, 2018 - 01:36pm PT
Stormy will say they had sex several times in and around 2006 while he was married. That in itself is still quite a revelation, but considering she had previously described sex with Donald as “vanilla” I doubt any kinky or weird beans will be spilled.

I believe that another divorce is in trump's future.
Bruce Morris

Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
Mar 22, 2018 - 01:42pm PT
I believe that creating market instability by raising tariffs at the same time he's being sued by these women will be what really brings Trump down. But a nasty divorce in the middle of all of this could be the icing on the cake.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 22, 2018 - 01:44pm PT
We’re stuck with him until at least 2020. Republicans will not do anything to oppose him, they’re too scared of his base.
RussianBot

climber
Mar 22, 2018 - 01:47pm PT
The guy is going down fast. His approval rating just went up to 40%. No way that guy can get elected!
Bruce Morris

Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
Mar 22, 2018 - 01:50pm PT
Bruce Morris - How do you know this?

You can learn a lot about the world by cultivating friendships with and interviewing whores. They know a whole lot about the world they don't teach you in graduate school.

When they complain that you're "too rough" that means they're no good and lazy.

Try it. You'll like it!
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 22, 2018 - 02:42pm PT
Trump's attorney Michael Cohen will wish he had quit a long time ago.

Cohen is claiming that he acted on his own when he formed the LLC, paid Stormy Daniels and wrote up the NDA. He says Trump knew nothing of what was going on, and that Trump was not his client in that situation. He said he did it all on his own, for his own personal reasons.

That means that Cohen can't plead attorney-client privilege, and can be indicted along with everybody else. Trump's latest move, to personally sue Daniels in Federal court, directly contradicts Cohen's fictitious narrative. Trump is flailing around so uncontrollably, he is feeding his own lawyers to Mueller.


A Scorched Earth Policy normally involves burning the opponent's resources to starve him into submission. In Trump's abnormal world, his Scorched Earth Policy is to burn his own resources, to distract attention away from himself.



divad

Trad climber
wmass
Mar 22, 2018 - 03:08pm PT
Anyone with that many lawyers must be guilty of something..
stevep

Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
Mar 22, 2018 - 03:34pm PT
Dang.
Now he's replaced McMaster with uber-hawk and neocon John Bolton. Somehow I don't feel safer.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Mar 22, 2018 - 03:56pm PT
Bolton is damn scary

Can we agree on one thing, worst president ever? Too bad selecting the safest rappel system is not as easy.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 22, 2018 - 04:08pm PT
This is not good.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 22, 2018 - 05:32pm PT
https://giphy.com/gifs/xTiTnKwDwRpWumX2py/html5

grrrr...I don't know how to make a GIF in the post, but this link is one with Biden lifting weights while chatting on the phone
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 22, 2018 - 05:45pm PT
it's not an image, it's a movie

{}

Now it might piss off Warbler, but I'd rather see Michelle Obama kick Trump's punk ass.

[Click to View YouTube Video]


Flip Flop

climber
Earth Planet, Universe
Mar 22, 2018 - 06:09pm PT
He's draining the swamp. Few of his Fire-ees will have those powerful positions offered to them again. Think about it. I wouldn't vote for the clown but the verdict is still out on the outcome.
RussianBot

climber
Mar 22, 2018 - 06:12pm PT
The playboy model who had an affair with him says that Trump compared her to Ivanka! And that he offered to pay her afterwards.

This thing is a gold mine. I can’t wait until it goes into reruns. I wonder how high his approval rating will climb now?

We might have it backwards. We’re f*#ked. He’s not.
seano

Mountain climber
none
Mar 22, 2018 - 06:28pm PT
Yeah, Bolton being back in the administration is scary. He was one of the ones who wanted us to keep going after "liberating" Iraq to "liberate" Iran. Fortunately there were enough sane people in the Bush II administration to prevent that. This time, who knows?
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 22, 2018 - 06:52pm PT
"Take my advice you'd be better off dead"


Did Bolton say that to Cheney?


Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Mar 22, 2018 - 07:10pm PT

*Better Never to Have Been: The Harm of Coming into Existence
by David Benatar
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 22, 2018 - 07:16pm PT
So if Trump is in his happy place in the afternoon sun, where is Nicolas Maduro? The former
bus driver will shortly mark the fifth anniversary of the start of his driving his nation to the brink. If you bought $100 worth of bolivars then your $100 investment would now be worth...

one cent

Keep the change.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 22, 2018 - 07:24pm PT
Word in the Twittersphere is there is likely to be some big indictments tomorrow... I guess we'll see.

They're tweeting about the fact that Guccifer 2.0, having been proven to actually have been a high-level Russian Intelligence Officer(and not the amatuer hacker which he was portrayed to be), and that some of Trump campaigners accepted information from him.

I'm just ready for it to stop, already. What a f*#ked up place we're in. Who could have guessed the internet would take us down these roads, back in the day when we would listen to the buzzing of modems and the "You've got mail!" alerts?
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Mar 22, 2018 - 07:25pm PT
It’s only Thursday. Much more to come.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Mar 22, 2018 - 07:49pm PT
Msnbc is reporting the Gucifer news now, we are on the brink of some bad sh1t happening. Mattis and Kelly are the only sane ones left, and Kelly is about to get tossed under the bus.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Mar 22, 2018 - 07:59pm PT
Ty Cobb is next, which sets the stage for preemtive strikes on N. Korea and/or Iran.

There will be no advisors who aren’t Breitbart/Fox people.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/379251-trump-has-openly-discussed-firing-lawyer-ty-cobb-report
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 22, 2018 - 08:02pm PT
This thing is a gold mine. I can’t wait until it goes into reruns. I wonder how high his approval rating will climb now?


The Trumpman Show has been running non-stop since the late 1970s, and has always been a gold mine. The episodes ran the gamut from reopening a decrepit NYC hotel, to the mistress Marla Maples boasting about "The Best Sex Of My Life". All of it was out there for everyone to see before the election, but apparently they didn't have Google in the Midwest back then.

What we are seeing, right now, are reruns of episodes that first ran in 2006. Pretty soon, we'll see reruns of episodes from 2010-2014 that show dirty money coming from you-know-where being laundered through expensive NYC tower apartments coming from you-know-who.

Approval ratings and viewer ratings are two different things. Nobody approved of Charles Manson, but everybody tuned in to see what would happen to him.




Word in the Twittersphere is there is likely to be some big indictments tomorrow


Investigator Mueller's new TV show should be called Friday Night Indicts.

He pulls some names out of a MAGA hat, and Friday night indicts them.









Fearful of losing his position of power, he systematically eliminated those closest to himself.

Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Mar 22, 2018 - 08:52pm PT
This is too f*#king weird. I wake up in the morning, every morning, wondering what happened while I slept; how much lower can he go? I never imagine the depths that are possible. I've been trying to formulate some sort of response to this, but can't just be a single weirdo standing in the street with a sign. Maybe I should be, don't know. Our Constitution says the president has to get approval from Congress before declaring war; this check has been eroded (quite) a bit. Is there any hope rational minds will prevail? What do the Russians have on the Trumpster? Never thought our president would be the agent of our destruction. Bolton? Holy sh#t.
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Mar 22, 2018 - 09:00pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Mar 22, 2018 - 09:13pm PT
Yep!

Per Stevep's mention of the news:

Now he's replaced McMaster with uber-hawk and neocon John Bolton. Somehow I don't feel safer.


CBS is advertising they will be featuring "Porn-Star" Stormy Daniels on 60 Minutes this Sunday. She will be interviewed about her brief sexual-relationship with Trump, (while he was married) and all the schist she went through, when she decided to publicize it.

Of course Trump would create his own distraction to that bad news by firing another cabinet member & hiring someone that is perhaps crazier than our "felon in chief."
10b4me

Social climber
Lida Junction
Mar 22, 2018 - 09:31pm PT
Mattis and Kelly are the only sane ones left, and Kelly is about to get tossed under the bus.
If Kelly goes, look for Bannon to return.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 22, 2018 - 09:34pm PT
Stormy Daniels has said little, or nothing, about her affair with Trump. I haven't seen everything, but she seems cagey about letting the story come from somewhere other than herself.

The WSJ broke the story about the hush-money payment in January 2017. A few days later, In Touch magazine published a Stormy Daniels interview from 2011. Her friends, such as another porn star whom Trump propositioned with a five-figure fee as if she was a prostitute, have been going public with what they know. Stormy Daniels went on Jimmy Kimmel Live and didn't say anything about the affair, despite Kimmel's attempts to elicit confirmation about lurid details from the In Touch magazine interview.

Daniels' attorney has probably instructed her to not violate the NDA, until such time that the courts render it invalid. She can talk and talk and talk, but not about the affair itself.

From my position here in the cheap seats, it sure looks like her attorney has his act together, and that he is going to be mopping the floor with Trump, Cohen, and Co.




EDIT:

A contract in furtherance of an illegal purpose (e.g. violation of campaign finance laws) is inherently invalid.

SDFTW
Lituya

Mountain climber
Mar 22, 2018 - 09:36pm PT
Sorry, but I just have to check in on the Crazy Show from time to time. You guys are priceless--and so in the know! I hear y'all have it "on good authority" this time. Well done.


Awwwww heck, let's just swear in Pence, already! Man, I wish I still ate popcorn.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Mar 22, 2018 - 11:09pm PT
At this point I cry uncle, Pence would be an improvement.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 23, 2018 - 01:06am PT
Trump looks like he wants to go down as the MAD President: the Mutually-Assured Destruction President.

Or, perhaps more appropriately, the Mexican Standoff President.


He's like a suicide bomber in a crowd with his finger on the button, warning the authorities to keep their distance.



This is how Trump will be remembered:

NEVER AGAIN!
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 23, 2018 - 01:20am PT
Might as well have elected Gilligan.
Delhi Dog

climber
Good Question...
Mar 23, 2018 - 01:36am PT
Maybe, at least Gilligan had the Skipper to smack him on the head every once-in-awhile.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Mar 23, 2018 - 02:55am PT
Trump's nominees still must be approved by congress. Wonder if they'll exercise their responsibility wisely?

Not Bolton.

National security advisor does not require Senate confirmation.
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Mar 23, 2018 - 05:43am PT
As Christian, white male dominance slips away, the fear and loathing of those in the lower social strata is at a crescendo. Their fervor is stoked by like minded corporatist and wannabe oligarchs through multiple media platforms.

Instead of quietly accepting a diminished yet co-equal role in society, Trump is their nihilistic supernova. Archie Bunker lost his job and grabbed a gun.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 23, 2018 - 06:21am PT
Gilligan was a decent person.
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Mar 23, 2018 - 06:43am PT
no, this can happen again

some 60 million adults, not children, voted to make a Reality TV person President

including a good number who post on SuperTopo, you know who they are

Bushman

climber
The state of quantum flux
Mar 23, 2018 - 06:47am PT
Know Me by My Name

Some people thinks it’s lame
But you’ll know me by my name
I’m Gilligan, your president
I’ll always be the same
So know me by my name

-Calm Da Fookdown
Flip Flop

climber
Earth Planet, Universe
Mar 23, 2018 - 07:17am PT
Um, Arnold Schwarzenegger and Jesse Ventura?

The OranguChump was well known before reality tv.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Mar 23, 2018 - 07:25am PT
Arnold actually did a decent job as governor
Bushman

climber
The state of quantum flux
Mar 23, 2018 - 07:58am PT
The ins and outs of Gilligan’s Island...here we go
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Mar 23, 2018 - 08:01am PT
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Mar 23, 2018 - 11:09am PT
no, this can happen again

some 60 million adults, not children, voted to make a Reality TV person President

including a good number who post on SuperTopo, you know who they are

I agree it can happen again and democrats shouldn't assume that angry out-of-touch with reality populists can only come from the right.
mcreel

climber
Barcelona
Mar 23, 2018 - 11:22am PT
The premise of the OP is that Trump is the bull. Maybe Trump is the guy in tight pants who is going to kill the bull, after torturing it in a spectacular fashion for a while.

The role of the bull is being played by the dignity of American democracy.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 23, 2018 - 11:23am PT
I think the "it can happen again" idea springs from a denial that the election was manipulated.

Had one simple rule which is implemented in "election messaging" for other media been in place with the internet messaging - that the payer of the message is known and shown - the manipulation campaign would have been much less successful.

Yes, we were duped. But I do believe a good number of GOP pols were kind of stuck, once DT became nominee. I mean - in early 2016 - would any of us have thought that it was possible that much of our social media experience was going to be manipulated?

If the angry white males would have actually known that there were NOT a hundred more just like them within a few miles, would they have been THAT willing to foment the hate?



Honestly - much as I rely on the internet, I really feel that it is a dangerous thing. I am just so tired..... I don't trust what I see anymore- and yes, it has absolutely occurred to me that all along Trump might actually be being maligned. I don't THINK that's the case, but I just don't know what to believe is truth anymore, when it comes to media. Relying on common sense, when we are seeing an all out spy epic saga before our eyes - is terrifying to me. And I have ALWAYS been able to trust my instincts.

Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Mar 23, 2018 - 12:32pm PT
exactly, Econ

Republican politicians and their voters say they hate "big government"

oh so intrusive big government is in the private lives of Americans they say

except of course when Republicans want to pass sweeping Federal laws flat out ordering every woman in the country to give birth to babies they do not want

AMNESIA - go back to election day of 2007, Obama V McCain
the US is in the grips of a Recession, 700,000 job losses reported a month
10 million Americans have lost their jobs

and yet the faithful came out, unashamed, and voted, again, to continue the same policies that lead to the Recession, they voted for John McCain

We are living, real time, in the movie Idiocracy
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Mar 23, 2018 - 01:02pm PT


Dangerous, but still just a distraction, yes....

What surprises me most, is that few Americans are able to see how destructive the system is. Few Americans are able to see beyond the individual. This blindness is stunning...
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Mar 23, 2018 - 02:21pm PT
Wade, what the hell is that picture about? I'm scratching my head...... it's interesting but......?
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Mar 23, 2018 - 02:30pm PT

"The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias wherein people of low ability suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly assessing their cognitive ability as greater than it is. The cognitive bias of illusory superiority derives from the metacognitive inability of low-ability persons to recognize their own ineptitude; without the self-awareness of metacognition, low-ability people cannot objectively evaluate their actual competence or incompetence.

Conversely, highly competent individuals may erroneously assume that tasks easy for them to perform are also easy for other people to perform, or that other people will have a similar understanding of subjects that they themselves are well-versed in.

As described by social psychologists David Dunning and Justin Kruger, the cognitive bias of illusory superiority results from an internal illusion in people of low ability and from an external misperception in people of high ability; that is, "the miscalibration of the incompetent stems from an error about the self, whereas the miscalibration of the highly competent stems from an error about others."
JC Marin

Trad climber
CA
Mar 23, 2018 - 04:04pm PT
As far as I can tell, there are two kinds of people in this world:

Those who know that Trump is a toxic nightmare for our country--and those who will know it soon enough.
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Mar 23, 2018 - 04:23pm PT
tRump is a Russian stooge. Anyone that supports him is complicit in tearing down America.
Lituya

Mountain climber
Mar 23, 2018 - 09:38pm PT
@UnHappieGrrrl2 Say: Mar 22, 2018 - 07:24pm PT
Word in the Twittersphere is there is likely to be some big indictments tomorrow... I guess we'll see.

They're tweeting about the fact that Guccifer 2.0, having been proven to actually have been a high-level Russian Intelligence Officer(and not the amatuer hacker which he was portrayed to be), and that some of Trump campaigners accepted information from him.

Oh dear, did Ms Rachael and Mr Lemon and Herr O'Donnell get all y'all stirred up about fake again? Ever feel like you're just being played?? :-0
Lennox

climber
in the land of the blind
Mar 23, 2018 - 10:53pm PT
Some impotent anonymous coward, who tries to compensate by nicknaming himself after a mega tsunami spewed thusly:

@UnHappieGrrrl2 Say: Mar 22, 2018 - 07:24pm PT
Word in the Twittersphere is there is likely to be some big indictments tomorrow... I guess we'll see.

They're tweeting about the fact that Guccifer 2.0, having been proven to actually have been a high-level Russian Intelligence Officer(and not the amatuer hacker which he was portrayed to be), and that some of Trump campaigners accepted information from him.

Oh dear, did Ms Rachael and Mr Lemon and Herr O'Donnell get you all stirred up about fake again? Ever feel like you're just being played?? :-0


https://www.thedailybeast.com/exclusive-lone-dnc-hacker-guccifer-20-slipped-up-and-revealed-he-was-a-russian-intelligence-officer?ref=home

I know the trumpies only believe what they get from their Breitbart, Daily Caller and DT’s twitterants bubble, but this is real—prove it wrong or shut your slimy dooshnozzle.




(edit) Take another viagra and try to jack off thinking what a great internet warrior you are.
v v v v v

(edit x2) An anonymous overcompensating coward with a derisive and condescending tone and no content—that’s all you’ve got—all hat and no cattle. You don’t have to like the source, just prove the story wrong.
v v v v v
Lituya

Mountain climber
Mar 23, 2018 - 10:56pm PT
LMAO! At you.

The Daily Beast? Well, I suppose--as long as HuffPo, Daily Kos, MSNBC, CNN, and Mother Jones all concur. . .

I believe it. That settles it!
Lituya

Mountain climber
Mar 23, 2018 - 11:34pm PT
You don’t have to like the source, just prove the story wrong.

Thanks for short-handing why the thought of you turds in charge again is so terrifying.


Lennox

climber
in the land of the blind
Mar 23, 2018 - 11:47pm PT
You don’t have to like the source, just prove the story wrong.

Thanks for short-handing why the thought of you turds in charge again is so terrifying.




Wow! How did you get here from there? Some pretty fvcked up sh!t in your little mind to equate progressives with Maoist execution tribunals. You need professional help—now.
Bruce Morris

Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
Mar 23, 2018 - 11:47pm PT
xCon wrote:

Trump's voters are conservatives on political steroids. They are the leading edge of a Republican Party and broader conservative movement that since the late 1960s has become increasingly extreme, reactionary, racist and hostile to democracy.

There is nothing "normal" about Trump's political movement or his voters. This moment is a perilous outlier in modern American history. The country's democracy and future are in peril.

You can see in retrospect how all this started when zealots from Barry Goldwater's failed presidential bid in 1964 confronted the social changes initiated by the anti-war civil rights movements in the late 1960s/early 1970s. But this just isn't political metaphysics. It has a distinct economic dimension and coincides with the beginning of the decline of the American standard of living at least for the middle classes. The sane literate center is just losing its clout.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 24, 2018 - 12:46am PT
Also on Friday, the departing national security adviser, General McMaster, bid farewell to the staff of the National Security Council. Staff members gave him a three-minute standing ovation, and there was talk of an exodus of career officials. Some were stunned by the sudden change in leadership, even though General McMaster’s status with Mr. Trump was known to have been shaky for weeks.

So, having tremendously damaged the State Dept through the neglect of Tillerson, and the upcoming purges by the new guy......we move onto the pillar of the gov't consisting of National Security. Look to see the professionals searching for private jobs.

In the meantime, the military and veterans get the kind of support that really matters, parades. Bolton will make sure we have the manpower to get a war started in Korea and Iran. It'll be somebody else's job to get us out.
Lituya

Mountain climber
Mar 24, 2018 - 12:56am PT
Sorry, eyeball, but you and your group-think compadres here are only marginally discernible from the mob in the photo. And the burden of proof upside down journalism you frothed up on the previous page reminded me of a certain logic practiced back in the day.
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Mar 24, 2018 - 03:34am PT

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 24, 2018 - 06:58am PT
Oh dear, did Ms Rachael and Mr Lemon and Herr O'Donnell get all y'all stirred up about fake again? Ever feel like you're just being played??

Uhhhh...there WERE indictments yesterday, Lituya. To most people, it would be a disappointment, if they were expecting the names to be part of TrumpCo. But when it is pointed out that in those indictments, Mueller "gave" Donald Trump a win, against "Iran Islamists," it takes on a different color. That being, that if Trump tries to fire Mueller now, there's another finger pointing to the facts of what is really going on, a/k/a Saturday Night Massacre.

Have you not noticed that even GOP pols are starting to say "Maybe Putin has something on DT?" That they are actually FINALLY beginning to step away to gain safe distance from POTUS Wrapped in Explosives?

Sorry, eyeball, but you and your group-think compadres here are only marginally discernible from the mob in the photo

You're a jackass. Or were you puling a Donald Double(Intendre) and expected we would think you meant the oppressers, when in you *crafty* mind you were referring to the oppressed?



Do I ever think I am getting played? Yes, I do worry. It's f*#king terrifying, what is happening right now. This is not a game of Pin the Tail on the Donkey.

So, stop playing YOUR games; spewing poisoned emotion-painted barbs, and post from a facts-based perspective. If you can't do that, there's a reason why, and it's not too difficult to figure out why.

dirtbag

climber
Mar 24, 2018 - 07:01am PT
Pointless arguing with hardcore Trumpkins.

The November election is less than eight months away. Find a swing district near you, knock on voters' doors, and flip congress.
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 24, 2018 - 07:53am PT
There were 62,979,879 who voted for Trump.

Approximately 42% of those eligible to vote did not.

How many of that 42% support Trump?

Although he didn't, Trump claims he wrote "The Deal" book. How many great deals has he done in the last year or so?

Maybe he is saving up for a plea bargain.





Flip Flop

climber
Earth Planet, Universe
Mar 24, 2018 - 08:03am PT
Low level dialogue.

Um, y'all do know that we've interfered in almost every international election in the last 60 years right?

I'm more pissed at the DNC corruption than at the Russians. I like leaks.

And when you start beating the cold-war era, anti Russia drum, you aren't making friends. Weren't we all "Don't the Russians Love Their Children, Too?"?

And Chump and the Repubs aren't responsible for the Syrian refugee crisis.

Y'all are displaying the same losing tactics that lost the election.

When Oranguchimp fires Bolton, the swamp is going to start looking even better.

Keep firing Donald. I'm enjoying the show now
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 24, 2018 - 08:09am PT
Low level dialogue.

Or OCD onanism.
Flip Flop

climber
Earth Planet, Universe
Mar 24, 2018 - 11:28am PT
Onanism has an end. There is no limit to this inanity
Trump

climber
Mar 24, 2018 - 12:18pm PT
Did you see the interview with the playboy bunny? She loved me! No regrets, I treated her kindly and respectfully!

And I loved her too. And who wouldn’t - haters like you?

Did my approval rating just tick up another notch? Those fake media geniuses at CNN have had all this time to figure me out, and they still haven’t figured me out?

Sorry all, but please don’t hold your breath waiting for Charles Manson to replace me. I run the show now!
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 24, 2018 - 01:05pm PT
Trump

climber
Mar 24, 2018 - 01:20pm PT
“There’s a reason why, and it’s not too difficult to figure out why.”

Yup. Same reason on your end as it is on his and mine. But we only like to figure those facts out about other people.

Love ya locker!

If you’re gonna drink poison and hope I die, I’m gonna be sad about that. I hope none of us do. That kind of thing gets in the way of believing the truth, for humans like us.
divad

Trad climber
wmass
Mar 24, 2018 - 01:46pm PT
Fake trump, cuz he didn't misspell anything..
Splater

climber
Grey Matter
Mar 24, 2018 - 01:48pm PT
truputin,
did it make you sad to have to assassinate all who disagreed with corrupt oligarchy?
Trump

climber
Mar 24, 2018 - 02:50pm PT
For sure, that makes me sad.

And it makes me sad if people with whom I share my preferred beliefs, if not my actual beliefs, are tweaked by my presenting my beliefs in a more playful, and less strident or factual way, than they prefer.

If we prefer the “factuality” of Tom’s bull analogy, I’m cool with that, too. It is easy to see what the reason why we would prefer that factuality is, without needing to believe that we’re dicks for doing it.

Or even to believe that other people are dicks for doing it. Lots of my supporters believed they preferred “factualities” too. You be you.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 24, 2018 - 03:40pm PT
The best story of the Playboy bunny interview was when Trump became confused, and didn't know if he was supposed to hand her money, leave it on the dresser, or what.

Apparently, Trump thinks any woman willing to sleep with him must be a prostitute. When the Playboy bunny said she didn't want money after having sex with him, Trump didn't know how to respond.

So, he told the Playboy bunny that she was just like his daughter, Ivanka.

Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Mar 24, 2018 - 03:41pm PT
Geez Mr. Trump sir, I didn't know you actually HAD any beliefs. At last you're showing your true spelling ability, as well as your introspective side. I bet you sometimes lay awake at night thinking about stuff and how to be a better and more compassionate human being. Please tell us some of those deep thoughts you have; you can open up to us, we'll understand when you reveal all the hopes and fears that make you act like an as#@&%e.
Bruce Morris

Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
Mar 24, 2018 - 03:49pm PT
Tom said:

So, he told the Playboy bunny that she was just like his daughter, Ivanka.

Wonder what a neo-Freudian revisionist would make of that? Totem & Taboo & Incest and all that other repression rot . . . . ?
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California, now Ireland
Mar 24, 2018 - 03:54pm PT
My point is that I question the importance of Stormy Daniells having had sex with Trump years ago, or any number of other non-major issues prominent in the news these days. As for anything of importance, let Mueller do his job and we'll see what comes of collusion with the Russkies or obstruction of justice. And the mass shootings must be addressed, but I don't know how - we are not Europe or Australia.

Ditto John, I have never tweeted, never will. As for Facebook, I have an account/page but do not post to it, I do read friends and family posts though. Social media can be a good thing, but it is also liable to significant abuse, not to mention being just one big circle jerk at times, as can forums and the internet itself. I am no luddite or technophobe (I was on the Arpanet back at uni in the mid 1980s), I just do not care much for social media.

In November 1998 I launched a monthly magazine, Irish Communications, one of my first editorials was on the growing abundance of misinformation, disinformation and just plain shite that was accumulating on the net. I am not prescient by any means, but it was clear back then that while the internet was one of the great tools for communications, it was also open to abuse. And then along came a spider.

As far as Trump’s personal life is concerned, I could not care a rat’s assess as long as it does not affect the US, what concerns me is a) the guy is an incompetent buffoon yet he is POTUS who thinks he is a cross between a CEO and a monarch, and not a public servant, b) in my view the policies he is pushing for and enacting are not good for America, and c) who really is controlling him?

And really, who bankrupts a casino they are running? I'd think that would be quite difficult unless there was an ulterior motive for doing so. Or just plain stupidity.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 24, 2018 - 04:12pm PT
It's not Trump's personal life that is being investigated. The hush-money payments to Stormy Daniels and the Playboy bunny are at the center of a criminal investigation. Trump's presidential campaign appears to have illegally benefited from the payoffs, with felony indictments forthcoming.

Prosecutors didn't care about John Edwards' pregnant mistress during the 2008 presidential election. It was his campaign's misuse of funds to conceal the affair that led to his being indicted. Ironically, Edwards' failed defense that his friends had paid the money themselves, solely to protect his family from embarrassment, is now being invoked by Trump's attorney Cohen.



The Stormy Daniels scandal is the least of Trump's problems. The Manafort affair is going to blow up much, much larger. And, there's no telling how far investigations into money laundering through NYC real estate deals will go.

Trump's fealty to Putin is only a sideshow, at this point.








I meant that there is no formal investigation into Trump's personal life, per se. Of course the public is now concerned that Trump is a Trump is a Trump. Unfortunately, for many people, that concern didn't exist in 2016.

"Anybody but Hillary" is sounding more and more like, "Out of the pan, and into the fire".


VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 24, 2018 - 05:03pm PT
Yes it is. His personal life and lack of character are precisely the important issues under review in addition to his unlawful actions.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 24, 2018 - 06:40pm PT
Someone asked Stormy Daniels what sort of snack people should have while watching her tv interview and she replied:
Tacos and mini corndogs just seems so right...and yet, so wrong. I believe the more traditional choice is popcorn, however.


Can DT just ignore the public believing he has not only small hands, but a mini corndog?

I know it's really crass, but there have got to be some very funny "mini corndog cracks" coming...oops, didn't mean it that way.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Mar 24, 2018 - 07:54pm PT
Happie, you owe those cute lil corndogs an apolgy

I am having a "storm watch" party tomorrow, thinking little smokies in a bun would be a good snack
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Mar 24, 2018 - 08:14pm PT
jon! Re your post:

[quote]I am having a "storm watch" party tomorrow, thinking little smokies in a bun would be a good snack[/quoite]

Stormy party for sure! Even in Idaho!
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 25, 2018 - 07:00pm PT
I am having a "storm watch" party tomorrow

In Oakland, a theater is showing the Stormy Daniels show on the big screen. Tickets are $5.00. B.Y.O.T.A.C.D.





EDIT:

The original story of the Oakland theater screening the 60 Minutes Stormy Daniels interview

has been updated to reflect that

CBS' lawyers threatened to sue the theater.



Stopping people from watching the broadcast at a theater makes no sense.

If people watch the interview at the theater, they will still see the advertisements that CBS shows during the broadcast. Why are they insisting that people, instead, have to stay at home to watch the show? What about some guy in a Walmart, waiting in front of a TV, while his wife tries on the latest spring fashions? Or some guy who puts a keg of beer in his bathtub, and charges his friends $5 for a bottomless red Solo cup?

Some people probably wouldn't watch the show, except at the theater as a cultural event involving other people. I'm not going to sit through the whole show. I'll wait for the juicy clips to show up on YouTube, and not see any commercials at all.

But, if I was in Oakland, I would absolutely pay $5.00 to be in a crowd of jeering hecklers. Some things are just more fun when you do them with other people.




thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Mar 25, 2018 - 08:18pm PT
someone say babydick?
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 25, 2018 - 08:19pm PT
i wonder where Mr. Perez is watching the show.

Maybe he should have claimed bone spurs (yeehah) avoided service, ptsd and drugs.


(CNN)A US Army veteran who served two tours in Afghanistan has been deported to Mexico, US Immigration and Customs Enforcement said.

The deportation follows an earlier decision by US authorities to deny Miguel Perez's citizenship application because of a felony drug conviction, despite his service and the PTSD he says it caused.
Perez, 39, was escorted across the US-Mexico border from Texas and handed over to Mexican authorities Friday, ICE said in a statement.
Perez, his family and supporters, who include Sen. Tammy Duckworth of Illinois, had argued that his wartime service to the country had earned him the right to stay in the United States and to receive mental health treatment for the PTSD and substance abuse.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 25, 2018 - 08:30pm PT
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
That is just disgusting and despicable. Even the Ancient Romans had the decency to grant citizenship to those who served in their army.


10b4me

Social climber
Lida Junction
Mar 25, 2018 - 08:35pm PT
trump makes Bill Clinton look like a choir boy. Why aren't Paula Jones, Jennifer Flowers, etc, condemming trump?
Bruce Morris

Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
Mar 25, 2018 - 08:53pm PT
trump makes Bill Clinton look like a choir boy.

Bill was just horney. Donald, though, it's becoming more and more obvious, is a well seasoned whore monger with the brutal instincts of a pimp.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 25, 2018 - 09:51pm PT
Trump's grandfather, Friedrich Drumpf, made the family fortune as a whore monger, running brothels and gambling houses in Washington and British Columbia. His specialty was fleecing gold miners. Drumpf's Bavarian citizenship was revoked for evading his military service obligations. And, on at least one occasion, he obtained title to a piece of land belonging to someone else through fraud and deceit.

After he died, it was his wife and son, Fred, who started the real estate company that later became the Trump Organization of today.






Trump's new lawyer, Joseph diGenova has quit after just six days. He was a frequent talking head on Fox News, and regularly said that Mueller's investigation about Russian interference was a conspiracy against Trump.

diGenova said he was quitting because his other clients are being investigated by Mueller, and it would pose a conflict of interest to also represent Trump.

But, it is apparently proper and correct for him to go on Fox News to argue his clients' cases, and insist that the investigation be shut down.



Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California, now Ireland
Mar 26, 2018 - 11:22am PT
^^^ Tom, I researched the same stuff, from several sources, and apparently it is true. We know Joe Kennedy ran in certain circles (as did grandpa Bush), and apparently so did Herr Drumpf. I suppose, in some way, that is what makes America great.

I always thought it was watching John Wayne in The Big Trail (1930) (saw it last night, I have it on DVD, corny, some "mythology", of course the Savage Indians, but realistic too. My family travelled the same route in 1843, I guess that is why I like it, and Raoul Walsh was a good director).

Researching for an article/treatise I am writing on Mr Trump, I like the bit where Herr Drumpf had his Bavarian citizenship revoked for evading military service, when I read that bit in my research, I thought of Donald and his bone spurs. Like father like son (denying "people of color" accommodation), like grandfather like grandson (cowards)

I was 1A, I did not like or agree with the Vietnam War (I organized sit-ins and a debate with a Green Beret Sergeant in J-High, I have it in the yearbook, but was ready to serve as a medic - enlisted not drafted - but then the draft ended. Or another option was to try and get in the veterinary program at University of Sasksatchewan, hah hah. I was a veterinary aide (1&2 in summer school, 72/73. Canada or Vietnam I was ready for both).

My long-winded point is… I do not like Donald Trump. Never have (years ago) never will. And he is a crap person to boot.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Mar 26, 2018 - 11:32am PT
Tom - there is no conflict in gong on TV and advocating for a client. If it is flaggrant enough a judge will issue a gag order. Dual representation is different, because by representing two parties there might be conflicting interests.

In this case the clients are Sam Clovis and Mark Corallo. Both of them may have information that could hurt Trumps case. By representing those two at the same time they represent Trump they are no going to advocate 100% for a single client.

The White House said that diGenova and wife might still be doing other work for the White House. I doubt it, any representation of Trump at this point would be a conflict, regardless of the subject matter. Sucks for diGenova because he is such an attention whore.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-03-25/conflicts-prevent-digenova-from-joining-trump-s-legal-team

Toensing already was representing other clients involved in Russia investigations, including the president’s former campaign aide Sam Clovis and Mark Corallo, a former spokesman for Trump’s legal team.
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California, now Ireland
Mar 26, 2018 - 11:39am PT
The way I see it, history will look back at this whole… hmmm… what shall it be called, era?, hiccup? clusterfufck?, and just yawn. History has seen it before.

Yet, there is a lot at steak. I'll take mine rare, no blue actually, like Donald.

EDIT

Anyway, a long day, a lot done a lot yet a lot to do, but making an ass of myself is not on that list. I have done that all too much on this forum over the years.

For Americas' sake, for the world, let us hope that Trump, as much as I despise him, pulls his head out of his arse, but somehow, I highly doubt it.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 26, 2018 - 11:41am PT
Facebook is being accused of bad, bad, things.

Something tells me that the Cambridge Analytica crowd aren't as stupid as the Trump Bumpkins, when it comes to covering their tracks, but I guess we are going to find out.

The Trump's already cornered the market on "We're not politicians, so it's easy to understand we don't understand the laws, and inadvertently may have broken one or two." They really DID do a good job at branding the campaign as having been run by Ivanka, Eric and Junior, just doing what they could to help dad). Facebook and CA won't be able to play the Idiot Card and have anyone fall for it.
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California, now Ireland
Mar 26, 2018 - 11:53am PT
Happie, I see it this way.

Zuckerberg and FB will lose Face, but still come out financially smelling like roses, albeit perhaps with some thorns.

I wrote on this forum some months back, close to a year perhaps, about CA and its influence, and I was only picking up on where other people, researchers, had already done the groundwork.

Donad Trump will ride this Storm. His base is too gullible and the Republican hierarchy too beholden, or scared or just plain daft to challenge him.

The Democrats are in disarray, wondering how to tie their shoe laces, and that is a wonder, as some are barefoot stepping on glass.

And all this while America is being made GREAT AGAIN. Pissing off allies, but what are friends for. I feel so proud.

You know of course that the Sun revolves around Donald Trump. That is the universe. Take it or leave it. The solar flares are just his farts.

I'd love to see Monty Python in Trump's White House.
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Mar 26, 2018 - 12:29pm PT
The Democrats are in disarray

Hi Patrick!

I have to respectfully disagree with your above quote

Seems to me the Democrats are not only just fine but winning seats all over the country, including in deep red states

They are putting up not only more emotionally angry and motivated but more diverse candidates

polling shows their strategies are working, with voters preferring Dem control of congress
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California, now Ireland
Mar 26, 2018 - 12:48pm PT
Yes Norton, the pendulum is swinging, as it does in history (are humans fickle?. I do not now, ask a giraffe or orangutan).

But do the gains, and minor in some ways it seems, are significant enough for the Second Party to challenge the Powers That Be?

Do you really think that the Democrats will win a majority in the House? And what if they do, there is no way the Senate is going to flip, they are beholden to the Emperor, the Dark Side.

So if the Dems take the House majority, what then? A split Congress?

The mid-term elections this year may tell a lot, but not the whole story.

The battleground is 2020. My gut feeling - I could be wrong and hope I am - is that Trump will survive until then. And with the shenanigans that have been going on, he could very well be re-elected (please I have had enough nightmares, truly, last night, seriously, my legs were stuck in the Stove Legs, f*#kin El Cap), but if Trump re-elected, then saw my legs off as in Misery (the book, not the movie).

Norton, who will the Dems put forward in 2020, and in these early says it seems the Democrat field will be many, sort of the like the Repubs in 2016. who will coalesce the Democrats to kick Trump out, because he may very all be re-elected.
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Mar 26, 2018 - 12:55pm PT
Hi again, Patrick

Yes indeed I believe and polling shows that the Dems are favored to take the House in November

and that polling is cited as the main reason so many Republican House members are resigning rather than face defeat

I agree with you on the Senate likely staying Republican, but only because in the every two year election cycle of the Senate's six year terms this is the Dems turn to defend the most seats, not so in 2020 when it will be the Repubs turn

what Dem in 2020 will defeat any Republican and become President? Joe Biden
He wants it, is greatly qualified, has personal charisma, is well liked and respected by Dems and is a great campaigner

Bruce Morris

Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
Mar 26, 2018 - 01:01pm PT
The Dems need a Kennedy figure with a rich, power-mad, unscrupulous white daddy to push him into the White House. That lacking, a dark horse could emerge prior to 2020. Never know at this early stage of the game . . .
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California, now Ireland
Mar 26, 2018 - 01:05pm PT
No. NO. And Joe Biden being a schoolboy with this "take him behind the bike shed and beat him up" or whatever shite will not suffice in my eyes. I will not vote for Joe Biden, I think he is a decent fella, but an idiot for saying such, and he should know better. A lot better. Do I want somebody who should know better as a POTUS? And his apology for such a faux pas, weak.

I now he is popular, I know he intelligent, I know he is competent, I know he is experienced, and forgiving his foot in mouth moment or two (or a lot, Joe Biden and gaffes, a new definition please).

Next.

dirtbag

climber
Mar 26, 2018 - 01:07pm PT
I agree with your description of Biden’s schoolyard antics, but if he is the nomineee I would not hesitate to volunteer for his campaign, or nearly anyone else who is the nominee, for that matter.
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California, now Ireland
Mar 26, 2018 - 01:26pm PT
I am going to start a thread on social media. It will obviously not be about climbing. I will give my reasons for the years I have been a reluctant user of social media, and indeed, have not used it much.

I am not a luddite or technophobe, I have been on the Arpanet since 1983. I launched Irish Communications magazine in November 1998 and wrote about much of this this stuff then, though I am not prescient.

the thread I start, I will hope it does not go down the anti or pro Trump avenues. The dude is a pos who has had enough coverage. But, how communications, information and (perverse?) human nature can overtake common sense (of which I never had).

As to climbing threads, as for posters on politard threads who have never or very little, posted on a thread about climbing, as for the trolls, it is a Climber's forum, not a climbing forum, we do sit around and bullshit as around a campfire.

I spent a long time in C4 around campfires, I usually kept my mouth shut (super difficult for a gobshite like me), listening.

I have been so wrong about so many things in life, I could cry, but what use would that do. Perhaps I am finally learning to move on from my mistakes. No more tears, no more sighs, no more sorrows, no more feeling sorry for myself.

But I am not wrong about Donald Trump. Or the powers behind him or those that follow him and his masters.

Are we are on a cusp of human change? No. The sun will rise in east, the moon set in the west.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Mar 26, 2018 - 01:28pm PT
Biden is a narcissistic lying wannabe-tough-guy fraud. So he's who you all want to replace Trump with?

Anyway: who else here is getting really sick of Mueller and ready to see him him get canned, unless he can show some real evidence of "collusion" involving Trump soon?
Trump should file Magoo and replace him with an AG who will exercise some oversight over Mueller and fire his ass unless he's got something real on Trump, which so far we've seen zero evidence of.

Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Mar 26, 2018 - 01:30pm PT
Just imagine Trump and Biden rolling around on the ground, Joe struggling to fire a shotgun into the air while Trumps combover flops down blinding him as he spills tick-tacs all over.

Man, the pay per view could erase half the national debt.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 26, 2018 - 01:37pm PT
Biden said: "If I was in High School I would"

I would beat the sh#t out of him if I was in High School as well
Biden was correct, and calling out the a-hole bully

Mueller already has found plenty of collusion
Papadopplis or whatever admitted to the FBI that the Trump Organization TOLD in to get the dirt on Hillary from the Russians =Collusion

Here is Trump colluding with the Russians directly and passing off Classified intel

Do you right wingers not listen to the real News?
or do you stay in the safe fake News Fox Bubble?

Well anyway, Mueller has to also investigate money laundering, mafia criminal dealings, collusion with the Russians on election fraud, Republican election fraud, Republicans colluding with Russia and the cyber Facebook ads and fake News, why the Russians gave the NRA money, what other Republicans got help from Russia, and whatever else the trail of Trump corruption leads

And don't forget the most damming offense, using Russian Hacked data on the DNC and then the following cover up, this would have put Nixon in jail.

This may take awhile, but Trump and his crime family are in deep dodo.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Mar 26, 2018 - 01:51pm PT
So Patrick, if Joe was the nominee who would you vote for, the Green Party candidate? That would be wasting your vote.
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Mar 26, 2018 - 02:03pm PT

Do you really think that the Democrats will win a majority in the House? And what if they do, there is no way the Senate is going to flip, they are beholden to the Emperor, the Dark Side.

So if the Dems take the House majority, what then? A split Congress?

I think the Dems are more likely than not to take the House. But probably not much better than a coin flip.

Taking the House is a big deal. The majority party controls the committees and can launch and stop investigations and control who has to give testimony under oath to the House. That is Yuge!
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California, now Ireland
Mar 26, 2018 - 02:06pm PT
Jon, ask me when we get there. What is a wasted vote. I took the time not to mail but to go up to Dublin to the embassy to vote, because it was time all worth it. As I did in England, France and elsewhere.

And lately I usually refrain from responding to individual trolls like Lituya and Blahblahblahblahblahblah, It just warms their cockles to do so, brats.

But I am going to take the bait.

For Blahsabah, go suck on it jerk.Just as bad as some of the other trolls on this forum. Go sell your snake oil elsewhere is how I feel.

Lituya, I have taken the time, and it was not much, to see your ST history, just about all politard posts. Hardly no climbing but to slag other climbers. But your writing is quite literate, I was thinking you may be copying and pasting, but you seem to have some insights that make me think, perhaps you are not just an ordinary troll. but you come across quite literate and intelligent.

Have you fooled me?
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California, now Ireland
Mar 26, 2018 - 02:10pm PT
"When the wind cries, the tides recede"Ⓒ

Look for it next year, in the bookshops hopefully, definitely online.

EDIT

I know it is a stupid title, my agent and my publisher both said so. But it is whatI I chose. Arrogance knows no bounds.
WBraun

climber
Mar 26, 2018 - 02:21pm PT
Just see todays Monday st00pid politard horsesh!t updates the same as all their st00pid updates here.

Only in America by the brainwashed st00pid politards here ......
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 26, 2018 - 02:24pm PT
Politard Kranl00n reporting as ordered, SIR!

Kennedy set the bar for philandering which Trump, in his wildest dreams,
can never hope to match!
WBraun

climber
Mar 26, 2018 - 02:26pm PT
LOL .....
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California, now Ireland
Mar 26, 2018 - 02:26pm PT
And the smoking duck is one that I sat around a campfire listening to back in the mid 1970s. How are you ducky, do you remember me? Paddy

Lunatic Fringe perhaps?

Werner, super troll. He may be a gobshite like I am, but he certainly contributed to SAR methods and techniques, more than me, more than most. But he is still a gobshite. Hah hah

I will stop now, my third glass of wine, and the roast is now out of the oven, so I best save the wine for the food.

I love this forum. I just wish I could climb more, there is eff all climbing here in Wexford, but that is where my home is.
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California, now Ireland
Mar 26, 2018 - 02:35pm PT
Kennedy set the bar for philandering which Trump, in his wildest dreams,
can never hope to match!

And you know that how? Reilly? But then you seem to know everything. So I guess I'll take your word for it. And the Duck will agree with anything that he sees fit.

Please, give me a break.
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California, now Ireland
Mar 26, 2018 - 02:47pm PT
And Locker, I made reference to Joe Kennedy in an earlier post, but mister perfect Reilly chose to ignore it. I wish I was Reilly, so perfect,

Reilly, with all of your global traveling and the super dudes at your dinner table, you seem to forget one thing, you are not them. And never will be.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Mar 26, 2018 - 02:48pm PT
For Blahsabah, go suck on it jerk.Just as bad as some of the other trolls on this forum. Go sell your snake oil elsewhere is how I feel.

Patrick if I were in high school I would thump you for that!
But I'm not, and I imagine you haven't been in the last 50 years or so, so how about trying to act a little more respectfully?
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California, now Ireland
Mar 26, 2018 - 03:02pm PT
so how about trying to act a little more respectfully?

Hah hah

Well, tell me how to do it Blah. I await your wisdom.

You know, the ST has many opinions of the same, and some not so, but I would never call it an echo chamber. SO its liberals seems to "rule", because, I have been on this forum since 2005.

because, "Most of us seem open minded,

I aim just trying to get through life I lost my best friend through illness, but she is in a nursing home, I f*#ked up but others say I did not, whatever.

Soi I live abroad, I want POTUS who is above all competent. I am still waiting.
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Mar 26, 2018 - 03:06pm PT
new world order2...

That Biden compilation is total nonsense and only proves that the people that believe it, are IDIOTS...

then by that logic, new world order2 is also an idiot, forum banned twice already
------


as far as Robert Mueller having not proved "collusion", another "idiot" can't spell multiple "indictments" already

thoughts and prayers won't help ease your Robert Mueller "pain", deal with it
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Mar 26, 2018 - 04:12pm PT
Journalism at its best
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 26, 2018 - 05:31pm PT
Trump's F.O.S. lawyer and a White House spokesman are both insisting that Stormy Daniels was never threatened with violence in a Las Vegas parking lot, or told to leave Trump alone and stop the story.

How stupid are those people?

If Trump and Co. had nothing to do with Daniels, the scandal and the parking lot goon, how could they possibly know what happened, or didn't happen?

It's like the police telling someone they found his missing business partner, and he immediately yells out, "I didn't shoot him!"


At Mar-a-Lago last weekend, Trump regaled his guests by boasting that Stormy Daniels now owes him $21 million, not just $20 million. But, his attorney, Cohen, is still insisting that Trump never had anything to do with Daniels, the NDA or the $130,000 payment. Trump's chaotic management style has him tripping over his own lies, in addition to those of the absent-minded attorney.


Stormy Daniels' latest lawsuit against Cohen confirms that her attorney is going to attack the NDA on the basis of the hush-money payment violating campaign finance laws. Avenatti now has three strong bases for invalidating the contract.


Trump and his lying goon squad are COOKED.

zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 26, 2018 - 07:35pm PT






[Click to View YouTube Video]
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 27, 2018 - 12:05am PT
Forget the Stormy Daniels interview. Her attorney, Michael Avenatti, is the real star of the Stormy Daniels Show.


This video clip has Anderson Cooper and Jeffery Toobin moderating a dogfight between Avenatti and Michael Cohen's attorney, David Schwartz.

Avenatti says that Cohen's "legal buffoonery" has created multiple traps for himself and the president.


[Click to View YouTube Video]





"Where's my Roy Cohn?"

In March, 2017. Trump learned that Attorney General Jeff Sessions had recused himself from the Russia investigation. This alarmed Trump because he thought the AG was his own personal bulldog attorney, funded by taxpayers.

In his anguish, Trump plaintively whined, "Where's my Roy Cohn?"

Roy Cohn was Trump's notoriously amoral, crooked, pugnacious and vicious NYC attack-attorney, who was disbarred for defrauding and despoiling his own clients. Roy Cohn died in 1986.



Roy Cohn is not here, Michael Cohen is a buffoon, and Michael Avenatti is moving in for the kill.


Trump

climber
Mar 27, 2018 - 08:01am PT
New CNN poll has my approval rating ticking up again, now at 42%, the highest point since the 100 day mark of my presidency. Also that 2/3 of Americans believe the news about my affairs (i.e. that information is already incorporated into my rising approval ratings).

Just sharing some facts for all of the fact believers.

But don’t believe the lies I tell you - believe the ones you tell yourself! Spend your time and mental energy confirming your favorite belief. Working out pretty well for me so far.

Have a nice day!
Trump

climber
Mar 27, 2018 - 08:33am PT
Well said. We think that we’re focusing on ideas and beliefs, but really what we’re paying attention to is social emotional interpersonal stuff.

If you don’t like me, don’t believe what I’m saying. Works for the rest of us.
WBraun

climber
Mar 27, 2018 - 08:36am PT
I like the fake Trump.

I'm lmao .....
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 27, 2018 - 08:57am PT
Paddy, pardonnez-moi for not responding. Do forgive me for trying to have a life outside the
Crankl00n Zone. I was guilty of shoddy reporting in that I should have said that Kennedy has
no equal for philandering while in the White House. Anybody who doesn’t know that is a
major denier. There have been myriad articles on it. As for anything else I say you can rest
assured that it is true and well vetted. And don’t feel bad, even me mum calls me Mr Perfect.
It is a burden that I bear.
Trump

climber
Mar 27, 2018 - 10:38am PT
If we need to misunderstand me and misinterpret my behaviors, let’s go for it!

But I’m no Trump supporter. I’m Trump! I’m just like you, just that I climbed to be the leader of the free world.

DUMB, locker, you nailed it! That cuts me to the quick! Thanks for that. How long till Cambridge Analytica figures that one out?

Here’s hoping we can all find a way to cut through our own bullsh#t, with a little help from you and the duck.
Bushman

climber
The state of quantum flux
Mar 27, 2018 - 12:43pm PT

This space reserved for major zinger...
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Mar 27, 2018 - 01:16pm PT
Well, I take Trump's word that he is not a Muslim but I have my doubts
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Mar 27, 2018 - 02:48pm PT
How David Dennison got the kick name “Spanky”

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California, now Ireland
Mar 27, 2018 - 03:12pm PT
The Enemy Below.

Who is it?
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 27, 2018 - 05:03pm PT
The White House is happy to announce the latest addition to its staff, Caroline Sunshine.

Sunshine, 22, is a former Disney Channel dancer and White House intern. She has been promoted to the White House Press Office, and will soon replace Sarah Huckabee Sanders as Press Secretary.

Sunshine's 500,000 Twitter followers make her the most highly-qualified press officer to ever serve in the Trump administration.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/27/politics/caroline-sunshine-white-house/index.html









I thought Mexico was going to pay for the wall...

General Donald Drumpfkopf is a genius.

He will make the military build the wall, and then deport all the soldiers to Mexico so he doesn't have to pay them.

Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Mar 27, 2018 - 06:02pm PT
proof that Trump is a secret Muslim is that there are no credible, unaltered, photos of him in a Christian church

everyone knows he leaves the WH every Friday at 2pm and goes to play golf all weekend at Mar a Largo

no Christian churches for Sunday services at his golf courses, sorry, proof he is a Muslim

I heard he was created in a Petri dish in Kenya, educated in Indonesia, attended a terrorist training camp in Syria

brought back to the US by his father, Fred, and prepped to become President to put us all under Sharia Law
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Mar 27, 2018 - 06:31pm PT
Sunshine, 22, is an Ivanka look alike.....

Fixed the fix.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Mar 27, 2018 - 06:42pm PT
Maybe Sunshine could lead Trumps legal team too. Couldn't be any worse than what they got going on now. I am going with the neurosyphilis theory.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Mar 28, 2018 - 06:49am PT
But fuked by a hippo...? Was that in the Steele dossier..?
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Mar 28, 2018 - 10:32am PT
I go with the right wing burden of proof. Trump can not prove he didn't fuk a hippo, therefore he did.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 28, 2018 - 10:44am PT
New Mueller court filing links Trump campaign, Russian intelligence, and WikiLeaks

The special counsel says Rick Gates was "directly communicating" with a former GRU officer in the fall of 2016.

https://thinkprogress.org/rick-gates-trump-campaign-russian-intelligence-gru-mueller-f53c55bb1ac6/

In a Tuesday night court filing, special counsel Robert Mueller’s office revealed that it has linked a Trump campaign official who is cooperating with the special counsel’s investigation to a person who “has ties to a Russian intelligence service and had such ties in 2016.”

According to Mueller’s office, Rick Gates — a longtime associate of former Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort — was “directly communicating” with a “Person A” who Gates identified to associates as “a former Russian Intelligence Officer with the GRU.” Those contacts occurred “in September and October 2016” and are “pertinent to the investigation.”


One thing that never gets discussed is Hillary's e-mail server, it was NEVER Hacked. There was never a breach in security

The DNC and RNC e-mails were hacked by the Russian's, they released the DNC e-mails though Wikileaks


In other words, the Republicans were in collusion with Russia to sway the election.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Mar 28, 2018 - 11:03am PT
Trump can save the taxpayers a bunch of money and his presidency if he would come clean about the hippo rump roasting...
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Mar 28, 2018 - 11:33am PT

Sunshine, 22, is a former Disney Channel dancer and White House intern. She has been promoted to the White House Press Office, and will soon replace Sarah Huckabee Sanders as Press Secretary.

Has Sunshine already hired an attorney to get her non-disclosure agreement ruled invalid yet?

And which member of 60 minutes gets to interview her kiss-and-tell?
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Mar 28, 2018 - 12:45pm PT
Trump would be a far more successful president if he was someone else. Too many faults.

I heard someone mention Oprah for president. Jesus. Haven't we learned that the presidency is not an entry level political position?

Mueller has something on Trump for sure. Long ago, Flynn was trying to get immunity from the Senate Intelligence Committee, like Oliver North did, and avoid prosecution. He had broken some law more serious than just lying to the FBI. That charge was just what it got plead down to.

Flynn said, "He very much wants to tell his story, and it is quite a story."

Something along those lines.

Now we are seeing attacks against Mueller. Watch Hannity some night. He is batshit crazy. If Trump isn't guilty of anything, he shouldn't worry about Mueller. Many presidents in the past have dealt with special counsels, and Ken Starr, who went after Clinton, inspected his entire life, from a bad real estate deal to an idiotic affair with an intern. For a Rhodes Scholar, that was a bad move.

It is simple to be faithful to my wife. Why do these powerful guys always get in troubles over their dicks?
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 28, 2018 - 12:59pm PT
The POSPOTUS is barely still afloat, and the toila-swirl vortex is moving faster and faster. Mueller is carefully playing out his winning hand, one card at a time. Trump will soon be staring, figuratively speaking, at a Straight Flush.


And, pretty soon, the National Chant will be:

FLUSH HIM DOWN!
FLUSH HIM DOWN!




The dubious friends of Donald Trump part 3: The billion dollar fraud




August 28, 2017, The New York Times publishes an article about Trump SOHO Tower, its Russian financing, and Russian election interference to assist Trump.

Three months later, the Trump Organization abandons its stake in Trump SOHO Tower, trying to distance itself from any ties to Russia.



Trump's biggest objection to Mueller's investigation has always been scrutiny of his business finances. He wouldn't release his taxes for the same reason: the Trump money trail leads directly back to Moscow.

The "Michael" cited in the email screenshot above is Michael Cohen, Trump's longtime lawyer. And, the "Ivanka", who sat at Putin's desk at the Kremlin, was Trump's daughter.

Ironically, the email goes on to say, "We both know no one else knows how to pull this off without stupidity or greed getting in the way."


That should have read,

"We both know no one knows how to pull this off without stupidity and greed getting in the way."
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California, now Ireland
Mar 28, 2018 - 12:59pm PT
Watch Hannity some night. He is batshit crazy.

Perhaps the best quote on this whole thread.

1967, For What It's Worth. Paranoia strikes deep.

Has anything changed?
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California, now Ireland
Mar 28, 2018 - 01:17pm PT
Whether or not this has to do with Trump, or just America.

What changed it for me? Vietnam, I wondered why as an 11 year old, why didn’t the criminals in prison fight the commies? Draft them I thought. Maybe it was watching the Green Berets (and John Wayne was a darn good actor, many people do not realize that, but I never liked his politics).

One day, in fifth grade, St Mary’s Elementary, Walnut Creek, an Army car pulls up, two officers get out, us kids all rush to the window. Sister Gregory, Mother Superior, comes to the door to see our teacher Mrs Burke.

We all gathered at the door of the classroom in the hallway, me at front because I am a pushy prick.

Mrs Burke, a great teacher, came running down the hall crying, her son Patrick was killed in Nam. I will never forget that. It changed my mind. It changed my life.

I never liked Reagan or both Bushes, Carter was sincere but a bit inept in my opinion, never was a big Clinton fan (either of them), Obama was okay (why he was ever given a Nobel prize is beyond me).

Trump. Donald Trump. How in the hell can America sink so low?
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Mar 28, 2018 - 01:39pm PT
Obama was okay

tell that Osama Bin Laden, and to the thankful troops he pulled out of combat in Iraq

tell that to the entire healthcare industry patients in America who can not longer be denied insurance because they had childhood measles, tell that to the 25 million more Americans who now have healthcare who had none before

The only US President who directly did as much or arguable more for the middle class in America was Lyndon Johnson who passed Medicare and the Civil Rights Act, yes he also escalated Vietnam

you would have to go back to the 1935 to find an equally great President as Obama
Roosevelt, who lifted tens of millions out of poverty by passing Social Security

all these Presidents, Democrats of course
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 28, 2018 - 01:51pm PT
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Lincoln was a Republican - - - - back when they acted the way Democrats do now.



I heard someone mention Oprah for president.

Perfect. A cult of personality president, politically clueless, and with an easily exploited personal weakness: bread.

Some idiots were saying that Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg should be president. He would sell America's private data to the Russians.

Why not dig up Steve Jobs and put him in a glass box, like Vladimir Lenin, and make him the president? At least he wouldn't be at risk of assassination by his Russian masters.





EDIT:


VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV

Nobody gave Reagan credit for the economic boom of the late 1990's, despite its being directly fueled by the internet, which grew out of the Darpanet that Reagan pushed through.

And, Obama was blamed, as early as January 2009, for the Great Recession, which was primarily due to Bush and his cronies deregulating everything in sight.




Trump will soon be in a cage, telling the other patients he makes the sun rise and set.

Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California, now Ireland
Mar 28, 2018 - 01:54pm PT
hose words appeared tone-deaf to the millions of Americans struggling to make ends meet, who sought a scapegoat and heard a more sensible explanation for their woes from Donald Trump.

But is that not the frightening thing? That these politicians, so-called leaders, neglect the obvious. And then the electorate decides some snake oil salesman has "the answer".

As far as the economy is concerned, the upturn, in employment, manufacturing (really?), the stock market, is not down to Donald Trump. As much as his supporters would like to think

Economies are their own beasts. Obama's policies may have helped to turn the tide, but unless there is a significant upheaval, things do not change. I laugh when I hear Trump and his supporters claim that his policies have turned matters around. What, in a year or so? Come on, give me a break.

The big buddies, the ones who rule the waves, they just chug along. And the average American, indeed the average person worldwide, are just the suckers. Me included.

Do you think Putin is worried? Trump? They have get free cards.

Let us not kid ourselves.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Mar 28, 2018 - 04:24pm PT
As far as the economy is concerned, the upturn, in employment, manufacturing (really?), the stock market, is not down to Donald Trump. As much as his supporters would like to think

Economies are their own beasts. Obama's policies may have helped to turn the tide, but unless there is a significant upheaval, things do not change. I laugh when I hear Trump and his supporters claim that his policies have turned matters around. What, in a year or so? Come on, give me a break.

You're partly right, but only partly.
Obama seemed like a decent guy, but he was kind of a downer and I think he just made everyone fearful and depressed, and that led to a sluggish economy.
Trump's got a more positive, can-do attitude, and so everything is whirring along nicely now! It's really not rocket science--just unleash the forces of capitalism and let the markets work their magic!
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Mar 28, 2018 - 04:50pm PT
Obama seemed like a decent guy, but he was kind of a downer and I think he just made everyone fearful and depressed, and that led to a sluggish economy.

Yea, it had nothing to do with the biggest financial crisis since the Great Depression.

It was Obama's fault for being a Downer.

Pullleeeeaaaase...


And Obama pulled the US out of the slump a lot quicker than most other rich countries managed.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 28, 2018 - 04:54pm PT
Obama pulled the US out of the slump

Pullleeeeze!
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Mar 28, 2018 - 04:58pm PT
just unleash the forces of capitalism and let the markets work their magic!

So that is what that was called 12 years ago when a guy flipping burgers in San Diego could buy a house sight unseen in Baton Rouge, LA.
Capitalism unleashed, has a nice ring to it.
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Mar 28, 2018 - 05:22pm PT
blahblah! Per your mention:
Obama seemed like a decent guy, but he was kind of a downer and I think he just made everyone fearful and depressed, and that led to a sluggish economy.
Trump's got a more positive, can-do attitude, and so everything is whirring along nicely now! It's really not rocket science--just unleash the forces of capitalism and let the markets work their magic!


As folks have pointed out, Obama inherited a schisty economy & did pretty well.

What I find interesting is: The U.S. stock market mostly did very well from 2009 to 2016, after tanking horribly in 2008.

And of course, Trump inherited a booming economy & had a good first year with the stock market, but not nearly as good as 2009 & 2013, the start of Obama's two terms as president, per these S & P 500 index figures.
http://www.1stock1.com/1stock1_141.htm
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 28, 2018 - 05:36pm PT
Here's one more to be filed under You Can't Make This Stuff Up.


Trump's new press officer, Caroline Sunshine, played "Tinka" on a Disney Channel television show.

This video clip shows "Tinka", who speaks with a heavy Russian accent.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2018/03/28/caroline-sunshine-white-house-orig-llr.cnn





This is truly the Golden Age of Comedy. The material writes itself.


Trump was in bed, catching up on his Disney Channel reruns, and he couldn't believe it when he saw an underage Ivanka-clone speaking in a fake Russian accent.

The next morning, he ran downstairs, pointed his finger-gun at her, and said, "YOU'RE HIRED!"

rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Mar 28, 2018 - 05:43pm PT
Tinka gonna give big daddy tiny hands a spanking...
WBraun

climber
Mar 28, 2018 - 05:52pm PT
Sooooo St000000pid .....

You people ARE insane and infantile .....
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 28, 2018 - 06:27pm PT
Meanwhile, Equador is trying to get Julian Assange to leave the embassy, by making his residence there unbearable(took away his wifi access).

Of course it is known, by anyone with any ability to deduce, that the moment he steps out that door, he is going to be nabbed, most likely by some country other that the US, since that would be bad optics. And once he is nabbed, he's gonna be taken somewhere and given a spanking and have his mouth washed out with soap. And told that he will go to bed with no supper for the rest of his life, if he doesn't tell the truth...

Oh...I forgot that we're not children. Damned DT and his shenanigans makes me forget sometimes.

Anyway, JA can receive no visitors, make telephone calls or speak to the press. I don't know about speaking to an attorney, and how that works in Equador.

The plan is, obviously, to get him out of the safe harbor of an embassy, but to what depths will the go? How does he get food? Shower? Is he allowed newspapers, or to SEE web pages?

What a BIZARRE world we've been living in, unawares. Thank you Donald Trump, for tripping the light switch on that, at least.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 28, 2018 - 06:29pm PT
So Werner - do you think Assange was doing "right" all along, and is now being maligned, as being called out as a Russian Operative?

StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Mar 28, 2018 - 06:34pm PT
Totally corrupt people posing as saviors. Oldest con there is.
WBraun

climber
Mar 28, 2018 - 06:35pm PT
Russian Operative

Lol ....... everything is Russian now.

No not Russian.

Better go and dive deeper as you are only swimming in the shallow end of the pool .....
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 28, 2018 - 07:02pm PT
Shower?


One more to be filed under You Can't Make This Stuff Up.


Assange has had nothing to do at the embassy, except not irritate and alienate his hosts. The Ecuadoran government seemed truly sympathetic, offering him asylum, citizenship and even negotiated on his behalf with the UK.

But, now they want him gone. His personal hygiene is so atrocious, it's offending the entire embassy.

Vete ahorita y rapdio, perro sucio.


Ecuadoran Embassy Workers Say Assange Must Go: His Body Odor Is Intolerable And Is Disrupting Embassy Business










EDIT:

Trump is still playing the guy in high school who was cool because his father bought him a Corvette. He was born on third base, but told everybody he hit a stand-up triple his first time at bat. Needy, self-conscious kids with low self-esteem looked up to the Corvette Kid, wishing they were just like him. When the Corvette Kid teased and bullied and beat up the geeks, his fans (he had no friends) cheered and goaded him on, thankful that they weren't being tormented themselves. His fans would do anything to gain acceptance into the Corvette Kid's inner sanctum of Ultimate Coolness. The Corvette Kid's only concept of the world was a sociopathic perversion of Newton's Third Law: "I raise myself up when I push someone else down."


Trump didn't attend high school. His father sent him off to the New York Military Academy, which doubled as a juvenile hall for rich kids (John Gotti's son was sent there, too). Trump didn't drive a Corvette. His father gave him a purple Cadillac with a back seat, befitting a yearbook's "Ladies' Man".

VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Mar 28, 2018 - 07:15pm PT
what an imposter, so anxious for others to think he is so smart

yet when called out and challenged has absolutely nothing to back up his brilliance

80% of his "tweets" are personal insults because he lacks the intelligence and knows it

go away, disappear, everyone is on to and sick of his act
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 28, 2018 - 07:27pm PT
They should remand him to the custody of the Swedish Bikini Team.
They’ll kick his punk ass.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 28, 2018 - 07:50pm PT
I wrote "shower" as an indicator of discomfort. Most people who are used to regularly having one feel the lack of one pretty soon after whatever period of time between them they are used to had passed.

If they want him out, and are restricting him in ways, that is another way, was all I meant.
WBraun

climber
Mar 28, 2018 - 09:33pm PT
DMT -- "And I think it was real."

The American way .... just plain guess.

No wonder this country is so st00pid ......
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Mar 28, 2018 - 09:58pm PT
Duck dynasty has spoken...All stoopids bow...
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Mar 28, 2018 - 11:03pm PT
Well duck, tell us what to do. Same old same old. I could write the duck with my brain closed; at least give us new material.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 28, 2018 - 11:08pm PT
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Mar 29, 2018 - 09:48am PT
just unleash the forces of capitalism and let the markets work their magic!
So that is what that was called 12 years ago when a guy flipping burgers in San Diego could buy a house sight unseen in Baton Rouge, LA.
Capitalism unleashed, has a nice ring to it.

OK if I remember right, the crappy loans were based on government subsidies and programs that encouraged poor people to buy houses (which may or may not be a laudable goal, depending on the program . . .)

In a real free market, you'd never have had all the crazy loans. Sometimes our hybrid system of a sort of phony capitalism brings out the worst, the old privatized gains and socialized losses.
What we really need is good old fashioned unrestrained laissez faire capitalism, but fat chance of that happening with the brain washed millennials taking over soon . . .
monolith

climber
state of being
Mar 29, 2018 - 10:04am PT
^^More like free market loan officers abusing government programs with 'enhanced' applications.^^

Subsidized low income defaults had little to do with causing the great recession.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Mar 29, 2018 - 10:09am PT
OK if I remember right

You may have remembered hearing that, I have heard that before, it is absolute nonsense

government subsidies and programs that encouraged poor people to buy houses

but that is the talking point of people in denial. Please identify a subsidy to poor people that led to the crash. If true then the government would have taken a bath, like when the FDIC failed. Private lenders (huge banks) took the hit. The government only took a hit after the fact when they bailed the banks out. Greedy banks were screaming for consumer loans in order to issue more paper they could sell, greedy real estate types obliged them.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 29, 2018 - 10:13am PT
OK if I remember right, the crappy loans were based on government subsidies and programs that encouraged poor people to buy houses (which may or may not be a laudable goal, depending on the program . . .)

I'm pretty sure the crappy loans took advantage of loopholes in programs that encouraged people to buy houses, but weren't "based" on that. What they were based on was the ability to bundle the bad loans in among others so it wasn't completely obvious the buyer was buying shite. And when the buyers began to see that they were buying sh#t, they still knew they could simply sell the sh#t and make money off the transaction. And a merry go round of selling sh#t bundles ensued, and eventually....the crash.

Aw well, somewhere the other day I saw a quote about "only fools believing Utopia was possible" or some such. Believe it or not, until that moment I actually thought "If only people weren't greedy/dishonest/manipulative, etc...." That's wishful, and stooopid, thinking,was the insight I finally accepted. There will ALWAYS be people who will take advantage of others. Always. It may be a sickness of mind that makes a person look around and say "screw 'em, I'm getting mine, and theirs," but it's a sickness there is no cure for. NO amount of "enough for all" will stop it, no risk of punishment will either.


But I will still hold on to the belief that one doesn't need to sink to that level to survive, as is what happens when all hope is lost. I still have hope.

And, also the awareness that there are levels, and though I wouldn't sell sh#t packaged loans, I am not pure as the driven snow either. The "wrong" that I do is hard enough to see and say "I won't do that any longer."

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 29, 2018 - 10:16am PT
people in denial

Are you on crack? Who do you think bailed out Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, Santa Claus?
What are the VA Loan, FHA Federal Home Loan, and the USDA Rural Loan Programs if not
government subsidized?
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 29, 2018 - 10:41am PT
Oh yes, it's those greedy poor people again.....always trying to find ways to milk the system.

Will they never learn that the system is designed for only the wealthy to milk?
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Mar 29, 2018 - 10:52am PT
FNMA and FHLMC paid back the government, AIG also to some extent.

Most of the private money lost when Bear Sterns went under was never recovered. Their stock dropped from $93 and Chase almost bought it for $2, a class action bought it to $10, a bloodbath nonetheless. Plenty of private money lost.

The Federal programs had underwriting requirements that were ignored or skirted by unscrupulous PRIVATE parties

There was a massive influx of money from Europe that ballooned the market, they needed loans to eat the money up. Zero to do with government programs that existed for decades without a problem, and continue to exist.

blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Mar 29, 2018 - 11:00am PT
What they were based on was the ability to bundle the bad loans in among others so it wasn't completely obvious the buyer was buying shite. And when the buyers began to see that they were buying sh#t, they still knew they could simply sell the sh#t and make money off the transaction. And a merry go round of selling sh#t bundles ensued, and eventually....the crash.

This is one part of the story that never really made sense. Why didn't the buyers of the "shit packaged loans" do diligence so that they paid a fair price for them, if they were to buy them at all? That is basically what institutional investors do, or at least what they're supposed to do.
I don't expect you to be able to answer that; it's just kind of a mystery.

Anyway, this is a digression. The important point is that even though Obama came in after the 2008 meltdown, he generally had a pessimistic and gloomy demeanor and it was really tough to get the economy revved up while he was around.
Trump is basically a phony of course, but he's a promoter and salesman and I think that is maybe what we need now (speaking just for the economy)
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Mar 29, 2018 - 11:17am PT
I don't expect you to be able to answer that; it's just kind of a mystery.

It is simple, irrational exuberance
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 29, 2018 - 11:20am PT
I think that many buyers relied on brokers telling them it was a good deal. The brokers made THEIR money, on the transaction, as they always do.

And I think many brokers knew damned well what was going on. D'ya think any of them is really going to admit it, though?

It was a con game.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 29, 2018 - 11:46am PT
The ratings agencies did their part in this, certifying the quality of things that were actually terrible. One of my favorite explanations:

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Mar 29, 2018 - 12:03pm PT
I owned a very high volume mortgage company, originating and selling many hundreds of millions of dollars in MBS's.

Some points of clarification - FHA and VA loans are little to no down payment and any default losses are paid to the servicer by the pool of paid in premium money.

As such, FHA and VA loans defaulting were a quite minor part of the financial collapse.

It was non government or conventional mortgage underwriting that was the major contributing factor, specifically the "stated and not verified income" loans that defaulted

Those loans required down payments of typically 25%, with 75% being financed.
There is nothing wrong in theory with "liars" loans, because lenders are usually just fine if they default with substantial equity remaining and could easily be sold and often at a profit.

But the elephant is the room was the Republican House, Senate, and Presidency leading up to and during the meltdown, and the "conservative" attitude that market should be largely unregulated, free, free, like puppies, and that "big government" regulation was somehow undesirable.

And so during those critical years the mortgage market was ignored and underwriting guidelines were not toughened, and yes that is 100% "blame" of the Bush Administration.

But it was not only mortgage underwriting, it was the creation of CDO's, or Collateralized Debt Obligations that caused the collapse. Briefly, this is when you mix in car and credit loan loans to raise the overall yield backed by mortgage packaging.
And that was very much underwritten by S&P and Moodys, yes it was those guys who failed to reduce the bond ratings CDO's when deep in the bowels of the loan servicing companies the first waves of defaults started to come in.

Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Mar 29, 2018 - 12:17pm PT
hmmm, so the poor folks hoodwinked the big azz banks into creating this securitized debt while simultaneously conning AIG into insuring it, it all makes sense now
Cragar

climber
MSLA - MT
Mar 29, 2018 - 12:35pm PT
poor folks

You know it Jon! Nothing more dangerous to society and the figurative 'pot O'gold' than the poor folk, nothing!

It sure in the hell isn't all those current admin appointees, corporate tax breaks, etc. I mean by just shear numbers, the poor folk will always win, always. There are more poor folk than there are corporations in this country and that should scare you, especially if you are an older white male!! Look at all that free stuff the last admin gave them and on top of that, WELFARE!

F my current house, I'm going shopping for a poor house so I can start living more like an American!
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Mar 29, 2018 - 01:04pm PT
After President Obama took office his Democrats passed a very good financial regulation legislation known as Dodd-Frank, which essentially required banks to act more like banks and less as market speculators.

And now the Republican Congress has weakened that regulation
---------------


That same Republican congress has just passed into law a massive tax cut to further enrich the already rich, with corporate taxes cut from 35 down to 21%.

The nonpartisan CBO estimates this will add over one trillion dollars to the national debt

can you say hypocrisy? this from the party of "financial responsibility"

-


The DOW was up 233% while Obama was President, the DOW fell 50% and the US economy went into the Great Recession under Republican President Bush
----


increasing waiting periods between application and gun purchases directly lessens gun suicide

gun suicide is, by far, the leading result of handgun possession v murder
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 29, 2018 - 01:14pm PT
Check the defaults of folks who bought additional "homes" {3, 4, 5}? if you want to see where the real problem was.

HINT: The problem was not one-home buying "poor" people…


Anyway how much did Herr Braun weigh in the blaster photo?

Floats like a butterfly wouln't sting B
Cragar

climber
MSLA - MT
Mar 29, 2018 - 01:18pm PT
And now the Republican Congress has weakened that regulation


Not so fast there Naughton, my frikkin senator did, Jon Tester is his name and rolling in the $$ is his game. I agree with most of his politics and appreciate his candor of the past but it seems as though DC might have changed him the last couple years? It seems like a disease most catch, if they don't already have it. Warren and Sanders are ~the~ couple to respect IMHO.
Bruce Morris

Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
Mar 29, 2018 - 01:37pm PT
good old fashioned unrestrained laissez faire capitalism

Yes, like 19th century London with 500,000 starving to death in the Lower East End and 50,000 prostitutes on the streets spreading disease. No child labor laws. Pedophile's delight! All that optimistic progress heading headlong for the trenches of WWI.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 29, 2018 - 02:13pm PT
Trump is truly grasping at anything and everything to distract the discussion away from the Trump Show, and onto matters that are passe, settled, irrelevant, or simply never existed within the reality perceived by the other 7 billion people on the planet.


Trump's latest Twitter-attack accuses Amazon of defrauding the Postal Service, and not paying taxes.

Amazon pays postage to have the Post Office deliver packages to people, which is a concept children understand. Bulk mailing discounts are taught at the Wharton School of Business, which Trump supposedly attended.

Amazon doesn't pay any Federal income tax, but that is the new standard for many corporations. There is a long list of corporations that don't pay any Federal tax.


Trump may have intentionally driven Amazon's stock value down ($30 billion, so far) to benefit his short-selling insider-trading pals. Trump's inane tweets have created market disruptions in the past, which would be highly consistent with inverted pump-and-dump stock fraud schemes.


The real answer is probably a mixture of the two: feeding inside information to his buddies about a sudden drop in Amazon's stock price, and a desperate attempt to deflect attention away from Stormy Daniels.



Trump won't directly address the Stormy Daniels situation. The basis for his unusual silence in the matter can be inferred from the following known facts:

 Stormy Daniels is a porn star
 She is also a porn film producer
 She engaged in sex acts with Trump
 Cellphone cameras existed at that time
 Trump allowed her to playfully spank him
 Trump has a craving for flattery and attention
 Trump is obsessed with his television show ratings
 Trump is a minor actor who has appeared in a few films
 The NDA between her and Trump required surrender of films

Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Mar 29, 2018 - 02:57pm PT
oh my, still have Obama Derangement Syndrome, honey boo? hard to get over....

just can't stand the very idea of a only half white President?

name your sources, your "opinion" is the same as your vote for the Groper in Chief
Moof

Big Wall climber
Orygun
Mar 29, 2018 - 05:34pm PT
One aspect of us humans is our tendency to form our own insular tribes. We yearn to be included, and our psyche is pre-programmed to be defensive of our tribes.

Nationalism taps into this in a big way. Make it us vs. "them" and spout off a list of scary rhetoric (real or BS) and you can rally a following. Make folks feel like their livelihood or even their lives are on the line due to outsiders and they'll suspend rational thought to defend their tribe.

Trump and other nationalist's have tapped into this in a big way. Real and imagined mistreatments are used to rally large swaths of the populous together. Want blue collar folks on your side, start thrashing on colleges and evil liberals. Want the the working class on your side, spout off against immigrants and tech companies. Want to defeat gun control, claim any gun law leads to enslavement by the government. Don't want those folks to second guess any of that, then either take over the media or vilify it.

Tribalism shows up from the micro level (friends, family, coworkers), to the macro (American, christian, white/black, and what have you). Dye a bunch of folks purple and they'll form together as a group without even realizing what their brains have done to their behavior.

I expect that in a world where there has been too much injustice and suffering that has not been well tended to by the elite that we will continue to see a fertile field for nationalism to thrive in for some time. Trump, Putin, Duerte, and others are but a sign of the times.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Mar 29, 2018 - 05:43pm PT
Defending the Amazon postal deal as good business is laughable.

Good for who? Care to elaborate? it is a very complex subject with a lot of nuance. Most of which goes over Trumps head.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 29, 2018 - 06:22pm PT
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The Deal Artist (soon to be The Disaster Artist) alleges he is the absolute master of his arcane negotiation craft.

Now, he's complaining that the Postal System entered into a bad business deal with Amazon. Instead of addressing the allegedly bad deal in some rational fashion, he threw a Trumper-Tantrum to elicit, what? Sympathy for the Post Office? Anger at Amazon? Risible contempt for himself?

The self-styled Picasso of the paperwork, Da Vinci of the details, and Frederico of the fine-print should invest his allegedly superior deal-making skills into a more favorable contract with Amazon.

Instead, he Twitter-attacks Amazon in a childish fit of rage to feed his attention addiction.






EDIT:

DING-DING-DING-DING-DING

And, we have a winner . . . . . . . .

VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
10b4me

Social climber
Lida Junction
Mar 29, 2018 - 09:38pm PT
It's not about Amazon, and it's not about the USPS. It's about the WaPo.
Bruce Morris

Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
Mar 29, 2018 - 11:38pm PT
t's not about Amazon, and it's not about the USPS. It's about the WaPo.

Yes, the same guy who owns Amazon also owns the Washington Post, and the WP publishes unflattering things about Trumposaurus.

Nice petty little feud.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Mar 30, 2018 - 01:32am PT
Bulk mailing discounts are taught at the Wharton School of Business, which Trump supposedly attended.

Just to be clear, mr Dennison did NOT attend the Wharton School of Business, a very prestigious post graduate school whose MBA program is considered the best in the World.

He attended the much less prestigious undergraduate program at the Wharton school, where he got a bs in economics, not business.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 30, 2018 - 07:47am PT
Many states are getting screwed out of taxes because of online commerce.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Mar 30, 2018 - 08:15am PT
I dumped Amazon Prime when I started price shopping and discovered that Ebay is consistently cheaper than Amazon. Amazon can be quicker but it is rarely necessary to get 2 day delivery.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Mar 30, 2018 - 08:20am PT
want to bet its market rate?

$50/night when he can actually find a receipt or cancelled check.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Mar 30, 2018 - 08:41am PT
I dumped Amazon Prime when I started price shopping and discovered that Ebay is consistently cheaper than Amazon. Amazon can be quicker but it is rarely necessary to get 2 day delivery.

Well you can get an Amazon Prime credit card that gives you 5% on back onpurchases, and you also get Prime video and music services, which are pretty good.
All in all, it's a good deal--only problem is you're making another super-rich liberal instigator (Bezos) even richer, but you gotta make some compromises in life, so I go with Amazon.
kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
Mar 30, 2018 - 09:21am PT
Very concerning that the US now has a thug and a bully, John Bolton, as national security advisor.

Trump's fit about Amazon and Bezos is intended as a distraction.

https://theintercept.com/2018/03/29/john-bolton-trump-bush-bustani-kids-opcw/

https://theintercept.com/2018/03/30/deconstructed-podcast-will-john-bolton-get-us-all-killed/
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Mar 30, 2018 - 09:26am PT
yes, now we finally have it figured out!

it needs to be pointed out that "liberals" that are so successful in business that they make fortunes!

oh the ravages of unbridled capitalism

and when we talk about employees, it is important to also mention the political orientation of the company owner, in this case liberal

example: I am just so mad about the working conditions in a Tyson chicken slaughtering plant, those poor workers, low paid with only moderate healthcare, killing chickens all day long, and it needs to be noted that the owner of Tyson is a "conservative", how dare he make as much money as he can in America

oh the horrors
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 30, 2018 - 09:39am PT
Oh hey we're all for a living wage for a safe wholesome day's work, and having good government and an economy where small businesses can thrive and grow.

Except when it comes to our own pocket books. Then it's screw local government, screw the workers, screw small businesses and get the tax payers to subsidize that 2-day shipping.

THIS.

It makes me so angry when people spout that they either A) Buy at such and such that beats out prices because they cannot afford to pay more(ever heard of "doing without," when it comes to yet another cute tank top, prettified cel phone case, or winter jacket when you have a closet with several already in it?) or B)Why should I NOT pay the least I can?

It's one thing if the person will admit they are a selfish prick/cunt who would/will step on anyone else just to get ahead of them; these people are what they are. But when they spout a "caring attitude," and then the eyes glaze over when reading/hearing something like what DMT just put out, then....I'm not CERTAIN I would use the word "hypocrite;" I reserve that word for things a little more cut and dry, like a pol who preaches anti-abortion, while either paying out for one, or putting pressure on a woman to have one. But I know that I think negatively when I hear/see it.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Mar 30, 2018 - 09:39am PT
I dumped Amazon Prime when I started price shopping and discovered that Ebay is consistently cheaper than Amazon. Amazon can be quicker but it is rarely necessary to get 2 day delivery.

I have looked at the price of an item with and without the Amazon Prime account and sometimes the price without Amazon prime is cheaper, even with shipping.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 30, 2018 - 09:54am PT
Something is definitely awry.

Classic monopolistic strategy.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Mar 30, 2018 - 09:55am PT
Yeah, I scratch my head on some of the deals. It is not just Amazon/USPS making deals. I had a complete motor ($750) for my Subaru shipped from San Diego to Monticello UT for FREE, go figure. It was UPS so there must have been some kind of special deal cuz UPS is not cheap. The only requirement was that the recipient take the motor off the truck.
Cragar

climber
MSLA - MT
Mar 30, 2018 - 10:03am PT
Nothing is 'free'. When you do hella volume you can offer all kinds of great dealios but somebody is paying for it.

Take those frikkin sky miles c-cards. The card company charge the business a higher percentage on the sale to pay for those miles, thus reducing the business's margin. If it is a Ma and Pa or brick and mortar gig, you take a significant hit. Enough hits make it hard to stay in business. Frikkin cheap humans will end up with what they deserve.
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Mar 30, 2018 - 10:15am PT
why does it matter that the owner of Amazon prefers Democratic, Dingus?
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Mar 30, 2018 - 12:44pm PT
Amazon is a sweatshop. Their warehouse workers are driven like dogs. They suffer from repetitive stress injury and very poor oversight and the company kicks them to the curb when they get hurt.

Don't worry too much. They won't have repetitive stress injury for much longer. Just as soon they are replaced by robots.
Moof

Big Wall climber
Orygun
Mar 30, 2018 - 01:14pm PT
Oh hey we're all for a living wage for a safe wholesome day's work, and having good government and an economy where small businesses can thrive and grow.

Except when it comes to our own pocket books. Then it's screw local government, screw the workers, screw small businesses and get the tax payers to subsidize that 2-day shipping.

THIS.

It makes me so angry when people spout that they either A) Buy at such and such that beats out prices because they cannot afford to pay more(ever heard of "doing without," when it comes to yet another cute tank top, prettified cel phone case, or winter jacket when you have a closet with several already in it?) or B)Why should I NOT pay the least I can?

It's one thing if the person will admit they are a selfish prick/cunt who would/will step on anyone else just to get ahead of them; these people are what they are. But when they spout a "caring attitude," and then the eyes glaze over when reading/hearing something like what DMT just put out, then....I'm not CERTAIN I would use the word "hypocrite;" I reserve that word for things a little more cut and dry, like a pol who preaches anti-abortion, while either paying out for one, or putting pressure on a woman to have one. But I know that I think negatively when I hear/see it.
Being benevolent and capitalistic at the same time is impossible. Capitalism is driven by laws and economic incentives, and is otherwise a soulless monster. Asking consumers to voluntarily spend more to achieve a greater good is a fool's errand.

Rapacious capitalism is rapacious. Full stop. Expecting different is tilting at windmills, and will result in a slap in the face from the Invisible Hand.

However, capitalists do respond to incentives and laws. Jobs need to pay some decent minimum wage, so an inflation adjusted living wage should be the minimum wage. I believe in modest friction at the borders in the form of tariff's and immigration quotas to keep mega-corps from arbitraging wages to outside the country, free trade has gone too far IMO. Healthcare needs to be a right, and is a terrible fit for the capitalistic model.

So if you want Amazon to be a better company, pass laws that require it to behave in a more societally responsible fashion. If they do it purely voluntarily they leave themselves open for the next outfit (AKA Walmart, Target, etc) to undercut them and do that exact same thing, following the exact same laws.
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Mar 30, 2018 - 01:55pm PT
The hourly rate of pay for an Amazon warehouse worker is $12.84/hr plus health insurance

I don't think that is bad or taking advantage at all

This is work that any healthy person can do and without college education.

No one has to work such a job, it is clearly their choice. so what exactly is wrong with this?
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 30, 2018 - 02:14pm PT
So if you want Amazon to be a better company, pass laws that require it to behave in a more societally responsible fashion. If they do it purely voluntarily they level themselves open for the next outfit (AKA Walmart, Target, etc) to undercut them and do that exact same thing, following the exact same laws.

I completely agree with what you have written. Interestingly, Patagonia has been able to do what "should" be impossible, if what you say is an absolute. Perhaps it's because Patgonia stuff is pretty much completely non-essential, I guess.



The hourly rate of pay for an Amazon warehouse worker is $12.84/hr plus health insurance

How long do you think you could sustain yourself on $13/hour? I'm not talking about your present situation, whatever it may be. I'm saying - throw out what you have. It's just you, but you do have shelter cost,and transportation costs. Because, you know - those Amazon warehouses generally aren't within walking distance from home, and most people do have shelter cost. What does your life look like, on $13/hour? What can you afford to pay for shelter, transportation, car insurance if you have a vehicle, and how much left over for food and everything else?

I can tell you that in New Paltz, NY where I live, there is no way I could pay rent, my car insurance, and eat, on $13/hour, rent being the dealbreaker. Because I made $12.50/hour last year and will probably make $13 this year. I can do fine, if I am careful, but I have zero cost for shelter. If my car breaks down unexpectedly, that could be a problem.
seano

Mountain climber
none
Mar 30, 2018 - 02:37pm PT
Wandering waaaay off on a tangent...

I have looked at the price of an item with and without the Amazon Prime account and sometimes the price without Amazon prime is cheaper, even with shipping.
Interesting -- I knew that Amazon used algorithms to vary prices on an individual basis, but hadn't bothered to experiment with it much. Someone should set up a site to do arbitrage between customers.

I'm not an Amazon fan, and would avoid them more if the local alternatives weren't so terrible. For example, I needed some bubble-mailers the other day, so I walked over to the local Office Depot, and saw that they were almost 3x the price on Amazon. Having worked at a computer shop as a teenager, I'm guessing Office Depot has a 900% markup on office supplies, like we did with cables, to subsidize the 10% markups on big-ticket items.
Bruce Morris

Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
Mar 30, 2018 - 02:40pm PT
But, advanced technology is not the villain -- capitalism is.

But advanced technology - robotics and automation - are what's going to make work and labor as we have known them since the 19th century industrial revolution, in a word, obsolete.

I'm sure it's alright to work in an Amazon warehouse for low wages if you live at home with your parents in a Prop 13 house in the 'burbs. It's if you're trying to work in an Amazon warehouse and have children and a future, that things rapidly become ugly. The whole point is that unskilled labor has become obsolete for a huge segment of the working population who still harbor unrealistic ambitions carried over from the boom years from 1945 to 1973 when the US standard of living was higher. That's why a huge segment of the population is angry and resentful and looking for a scapegoat to punish.

Like Thomas Carlyle put in during the 1830s, we're living in a age of transition. A whole class of working people in the US is rapidly becoming redundant and will emigrate elsewhere or die off.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Mar 30, 2018 - 04:13pm PT
People becoming disaffected in a time of change is nothing new. It’s arguably been going on since the Middle Ages. The last great wave of disaffection occurred in the 1890’s with the rise of the populist party in response to Henry George’s tome Progess and Poverty written in 1979 after he witnessed extreme destitution amidst great wealth in San Francisco after the civil war.

http://www.henrygeorge.org/pdfs/PandP_Drake.pdf
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Mar 30, 2018 - 05:37pm PT
my younger brother works for the Amazon warehouse in Duluth, Minnesota

being my brother I am in very close touch with him and he talks frequently about his job

what exactly IS your problem, Dingus?
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Mar 30, 2018 - 05:48pm PT
DMT - I looked at one hit on your google search and learned that Amazon provides health insurance, retirement plan from day one. The pay is decent. sure the work sucks, but as noted in the article, it is a job, not a career.

I have friends at UPS, sorting in their hubs is just as F'ed up. Lots of people can not hack it. He stuck it out, has full bennies with a part time job, and makes decent coin.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 30, 2018 - 05:59pm PT
Norton - What is the job title your brother has, if I may ask? Is he an hourly floor worker? Supervisor? Manager?
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 30, 2018 - 06:08pm PT
My nephew works for the Big A also, but I think he is over minimum wage.
They gave him an apartment across the street from Emirates Stadium in London.
Before that he was a slave in Luxembourg. They’re heartless.
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Mar 30, 2018 - 06:29pm PT
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 30, 2018 - 06:31pm PT
Good corporate citizenship has devolved into grinding employees of all stripe for their money, and the business using the cash to make charitable donations that look good on the society page.


And when the companies are collecting donations, it ain't even their OWN MONEY they're taking credit for being so charitable with...



Meanwhile, as seen on Craigslist:

https://washingtondc.craigslist.org/doc/lgl/d/seeking-lead-attorney-for/6544195570.html
Lennox

climber
in the land of the blind
Mar 30, 2018 - 09:08pm PT

https://www.epi.org/publication/top-charts-of-2017-12-charts-that-show-the-real-problems-policies-must-tackle-not-the-made-up-ones/
Lituya

Mountain climber
Mar 30, 2018 - 11:17pm PT
Looks like there may be some common ground right/left here. Amazon's model has developed some real problems, IMO. Not so much with what they pay their workers, rather, with the excessive market power they are developing. What recently got me head scratching was their opening of several brick-and-mortar book stores--that look suspiciously like the ones they put out of business over the last decade. Not to mention the thousands of mom and pops that went under. Update, in some cases they are now charging the same or more for a title transmitted to my Kindle. WTF?

And how the hell did they get the USPS to run around like little lap dogs on Sundays?? While taxpayers lose billions every year.

And now they want to enter the health care market? Hell no. In any event, more likely Bezos is simply leaking press-release influence to sway markets where he holds quite a stash and has no plan to jump in. I guess we'll see.

And yes, as a moderate-to-conservative pro-capitalist guy it bothers me that Bezos has turned a once-decent newspaper, The Washington Post, into his personal blog. "Because Democracy Dies in Darkness." Like he gives a sh#t.

Capitalism needs to be protected from its own excesses from time to time. Amazon is a "prime" example.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Mar 31, 2018 - 08:51am PT
President Spanky is uncharacteristically silent about the Stormy Daniels suit.. Sara Sanders claims he's too busy running the country ( golfing ) to tweet about the suit..
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 31, 2018 - 09:00am PT
"boring work in a prison camp environment"...


Even worse he was threatened with demotion into the women's unit

Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Mar 31, 2018 - 09:00am PT

Birthday suit?

Larry Nelson

Social climber
Mar 31, 2018 - 09:25am PT
With any luck, she has images of Trump in his birthday suit

With any luck, I won't see that image ;-)
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Mar 31, 2018 - 09:44am PT
President Spanky claims he didn't know about the NDA...? Doesn't that invalidate the agreement allowing Stormy to share all about his Innie..?
Bushman

climber
The state of quantum flux
Mar 31, 2018 - 10:04am PT
Working for naked emperors you’re tainted
While telling yourself they must be sainted
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 31, 2018 - 10:11am PT
And now they want to enter the health care market?

I just saw something about Walmart wanting to buy Humana(I think, it was some health/insurance related thing).

So...what's this all really about? Why would such profit-mongering companies be looking at "getting into the healthcare game?"

Meanwhile - Trump "declares" April to be Sexual Assault Awareness Month. Except April has BEEN Sexual Assault Awareness Month for several years already.

Really, it's just terrifying. How could he be THAT stupid, that he wouldn't understand that 1) there is documentation that it's "already a thing," and 2) That the only thing "new" about his proclamation are the jokes being made about HIM with regards to sexual assault, and he has completely set himself up for it.
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 31, 2018 - 12:05pm PT
The cat scratched moron is now weighing in

"Take my advice you'd be better off dead" Ted

Ask a physicist about protons, photons, electrons ...

But everybody knows morons attract one another

DanaB

climber
CO
Mar 31, 2018 - 06:57pm PT
Rapacious capitalism is rapacious.

Herbert Hoover said that the problem with capitalism was that capitalists are too greedy.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 31, 2018 - 09:10pm PT
President Spanky claims he didn't know about the NDA...? Doesn't that invalidate the agreement allowing Stormy to share all about his Innie?


That is only one of a balf-dozen reasons the Stormy Daniels NDA is invalid on its face. Stormy Daniels' attorney will very likely get the ruling he wants, that the contract has never been valid.

Trump's attorney Michael Cohen claimed that he set up the LLC, drafted the NDA and paid the hush-money himself, without consulting or notifying Trump. Cohen entered into the contract on behalf of his client, Trump, without his knowledge or permission. That not only invalidates the contract, but should result in Cohen being stripped of his law license.

Of course, all of that is just nonsense. Any reasonable person would conclude that Trump knew all about the NDA, the payment and how it would benefit his campaign. The current fiction is a pathetic attempt to deny that the $130,000 payment was an illegal campaign contribution.



Trump, Cohen and Co. are so worried about the Mueller prosecution machine, and its forthcoming Vulcan cannon barrage of indictments, they have no mental energy to deal with Stormy Daniels. Trump's legal team has made mistake after mistake after mistake. Next week's lies will conflict with last week's lies. They will soon move to privately enforce the terms of the NDA in arbitration, allowing Daniels' attorney to publicly contest the NDA's validity in Federal court before a jury. Avenatti will call Trump as a witness, and Trump will fall into the perjury trap he has set for himself.

Trump and his lawyers are thugs engaged in legal buffoonery.

zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 31, 2018 - 09:21pm PT
That's why the Nuge is stepping up his verbosity

Deflection

Did Ted sign an NDA?

Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 31, 2018 - 09:27pm PT
The Motor City Madman didn't sign an NDA.

He is a lifetime member of the NDA - National Dipshit Association.

10b4me

Social climber
Lida Junction
Mar 31, 2018 - 09:33pm PT
Trump will fall into the perjury trap he has set for himself.

hopefully soon.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Mar 31, 2018 - 11:04pm PT
That not only invalidates the contract, but should result in Cohen being stripped of his law license.

To play the devil's advocate, why couldn't Cohen enter into a binding contract with Stormy, wherein Stormy agreed to STFU. Under such a contract Trump would have no standing to enforce it. Or would he have standing as an intended third party beneficiary (ius quaesitum tertio)? Probably.

As for the ethics question. Cohen has a duty to Trump to act in his best interest. If such a scenario works for Trump and no laws are broken then there is no harm.

Of course Cohen's version of the events do not pass the smell test. The same BS brought down John Edwards.

Trump will not get a jury on the issue of validity of the arbitration agreement, judge will decide it, but it will be public, with discovery.

Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 1, 2018 - 04:40am PT
Cohen, by himself, could have entered into an agreement with Stormy Daniels, paid her himself, and that would have been the end of it. Trump could have been a third party beneficiary without getting entangled.

But, Cohen is a thug practicing legal buffoonery.

The LLC and NDA were set up in such a way that Cohen represented a client, not himself. They were claiming that Trump was not the client, but are not saying who was. But, if Trump was not a party to the contract, then why is his specific performance (staying silent, and staying away from Daniels) part of what Daniels got in exchange for her silence? And, why is there a place for Trump to sign the contract? The obvious answer is that they were lying.

Trump now wants to intimidate Stormy Daniels with a $20 million judgement for breaking the contract. The LLC can't be a party to arbitration, so Trump is saying that he is the beneficiary of the contract. This directly contradicts everything he and his attorneys had been saying. It also indicates that the $130,000 payment was an illegal campaign contribution, which will bring the special counsel around soon enough.

Legal buffoonery, all the way around.

Instead of just walking away, and letting the porn star talk about "textbook generic" sex in a hotel room, Trump and his thugs keep digging themselves in deeper and deeper. It's as if they are scared Putin will poison them, so they all want to be indicted, convicted and imprisoned as quickly as possible for their own protection.

Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Apr 1, 2018 - 08:32am PT
Maybe Cohen just had a standing order to make those NDA's with the people Trump humped, and maybe Trump had set up a fund beforehand, to be used in such situations. In the Universe of DT, that seems the way he might think/act. "So, in the future, if I ever mention that I screwed(or whatever) So and So, you take care of it, with the funds from this specific account. And we never actually discuss it."

"Me so smart," he thinks, that technically he's not lying.

Perhaps that might be legally so; I'm no attorney.

I wonder how much money, though, if that was the case, his attornies embezzled over the years, deciding "this one isn't in a position to do anything," or realizing that DT has the attention span of a wart and is actually too stupid to hire a third party to balance the account, so to speak.
zBrown

Ice climber
Apr 1, 2018 - 08:48am PT
The Stooge, hardly a great rocker. Some folks would rather watch paint dry than Ted.

"Cat Scratch Fever" – 3:39 (from the 1977 album Cat Scratch Fever)
"Just What the Doctor Ordered" – 3:42 (from the 1975 album Ted Nugent)
"Free-for-All" – 3:21 (from the 1976 album Free-for-All)
"Dog Eat Dog" – 4:03 (from the 1976 album Free-for-All)
"Motor City Madhouse" – 4:27 (from the 1975 album Ted Nugent)
"Paralyzed" – 4:11 (from the 1979 album State of Shock)
"Stranglehold" – 8:24 (from the 1975 album Ted Nugent)
"Baby Please Don't Go" (live) – 5:58 (from the 1978 live album Double Live Gonzo!)
"Wango Tango" – 4:49 (from the 1980 album Scream Dream)
"Wang Dang Sweet Poontang (live) – 6:27 (from the 1978 live album Double Live Gonzo!)
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 1, 2018 - 12:10pm PT
Maybe Cohen just had a standing order to make those NDA's with the people Trump humped, and maybe Trump had set up a fund beforehand, to be used in such situations.


Some legal analysts on CNN and MSNBC are saying that Trump may have had a slush fund to finance various cover-ups. That would be a page directly out of the Nixon playbook, which Trump has already referenced with his firing of the FBI investigators.

The legal analysts also suggest that Stormy Daniels and Karen McDougal are just the tip of the iceberg. They say that Trump is the most vulnerable president in history because he can be blackmailed by so many people.

Aventatti says eight other women have contacted him, and at least two say there were NDAs involved. Avenatti's not ready to reveal details yet, because Avenatti is not engaging in legal buffoonery. Like Mueller, he's very carefully playing out the cards of his winning hand.

Avenatti says he is playing 3-dimensional chess, but Trump and Cohen are playing tic-tac-toe, and not very well.



He doesn't know me, but I will go down fast and hard, crying all the way.

 President Trump, in a rare flash of self-awareness
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Apr 1, 2018 - 12:34pm PT
Why the furor over Trump's secret affairs...? He's said all along he's pro-life...Is it his fault his mistresses use of birth control were covered under a NDA... ? Hopefully the religious right recognize this injustice and continue to support Lord Spanky the victim...
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Apr 1, 2018 - 01:35pm PT
Trump has me worried. His behavior is setting an unbelievably low bar for those who follow. His base is uneducated white people. He feeds them red meat everyday on Twitter, and they lap it up.

The finest newspapers in the country are now suspect because they call him out on his regular bald lies.

In Trump world, Fox & Friends and Sean Hannity set his agenda. He watches TV, doesn’t read, and is generally a completely unethical circus promoter.

Congress, unfortunately, has been his lap dog. It will be interesting to see if they lose in the midterms. They need to show their loyalty to Trump to make it through the primaries, and that will bite them square in the ass in the general elections. I have never liked one party rule, so I am rooting for the Democrats to retake the House.

Hardly a day goes by without some sort of monumental screwup. We shall see if the populace has noticed or if Fox News has them brainwashed.
Trump

climber
Apr 1, 2018 - 02:25pm PT
You people are still having wet dreams about me falling into a perjury trap?

Alrighty then, just don’t blame me when you lose your pants by betting against how good a liar I am. Again.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 1, 2018 - 03:43pm PT
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Tell me more, Georgie Boy, tell me more . . . . . . . . .

To whom and how did this Facebook censoring take place? I don't know anything about using Facebook. Do I just use the Facebook search engine Foogle to look up "supertopo trump scandal jeering hecklers"?









Hopefully the religious right recognize this injustice and continue to support Lord Spanky the victim...


The Evangelicals have been making the CNN and MSNBC rounds, explaining how they reconcile Trump with their incongruous support for him. Their canned responses all sound the same:

We didn't vote for Trump because he was morally acceptable to us. We voted for Trump because of where he stands on the issues.

The logical extension of that argument is that if the devil himself showed up, the religious hypocrites would vote for him as long as his social agenda aligned with their own.



The fallacious reasoning that allows the Evangelicals to sleep at night is known as a pro homine defense. It can comprise the argument that the person has done so many good things, his crime(s) should be ignored, or at least excused.

A typical application of this false reasoning is when character witnesses attest to a defendant's good moral character. The flaw in the argument is the (false) premise that a person's behavior is consistent, and that a person who has exhibited good behavior in the past is incapable of bad behavior now. Or, that "paying it forward" allows a "good" person to "accidentally" misbehave, and simply have a few Karma points deducted as his only penalty.

In the case of Trump, the flawed argument is twisted upside down to read:

We, the Trump apologists, have benefited greatly from Trump's deeds (or misdeeds); ergo, Trump is a good man who deserves an unlimited number of Mulligans.







VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV

TREY GOWDY EDIT:

Those two guys provide some possible hope for the Republican Party. They're breaking ranks with the doomed business-as-usual GOP gang.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 1, 2018 - 06:19pm PT
THE THREE WAYS AN ANIMAL REACTS WHEN A HUNTER APPROACHES


1) - A bear, or a bull elephant, will charge at the hunter, believing that might makes right. They think noise and intimidation will save the day. But, just one good shot is enough to take them down.

2) - A deer will flee through the trees, bounding away quickly. Speed and distance equals safety for the timid and easily spooked.

3) - A duck will hide in the reeds, and remain as quiet as possible. The plan is the hunter will pass by, and go shoot something else.



President Trump is a #1, loudly charging down the seven spinning barrels of Robert Mueller's indictment-issuing Gatling machine.

Hope Hicks is a #2, running away because continuing to lie for Trump is not worth a stretch in Danbury.

Jared Kushner is a #3, hiding behind his attorney, being as quiet as possible, and praying that Mueller will forget to indict him.











EDIT VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV

Seeking consistency and logic from the GOP and the right is a fool's errand. Their true mantra is "Anybody but . . . " (fill in the blank). They are not for Trump, so much as they are against Hillary (or any Democrat).

Their ludicrous plan of "voting the lesser of two evils" is now playing out against them, and they are loudly trying to justify their prior stupidity at the polls.

The right likes their tax cut, and just ignores the deficit that someone else will have to deal with. This is just like how they want to criminalize abortion, and then it will be someone else who has to deal with illegal back-alley abortions.

Ditsy Davos wants to teach children that Jesus rode a dinosaur into Bethlehem because that makes it easier for her, and other inheritance plutocrats, to control the masses.


Trump's primary promise that he has kept is working very hard to deceive the public, and ensure that the wealthiest people benefit the most from his policies. Both promises (to deceive and to shift wealth upwards) were implicit in his speeches, but his voters were too stupid to recognize what he was really saying.
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Apr 1, 2018 - 07:27pm PT
Norton! Re your question on what promise Trump has kept.

I do think his promises to roll back environmental restrictions & "make coal great again" have not been all that sucessfull, but he & his EPA Secretary are doing their best to make America horribly & more dangerously polluted again.


Spider Savage

Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
Apr 2, 2018 - 06:30pm PT
I don't think any of us really knows what is going on. The media lens is heavily distorting things.

Time may tell.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Apr 2, 2018 - 07:17pm PT
The media has been remarkably correct, so has the Steele dossier.
zBrown

Ice climber
Apr 2, 2018 - 08:13pm PT


https://www.veteransnewsnow.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/magoosessions.jpg
10b4me

Social climber
Lida Junction
Apr 2, 2018 - 09:28pm PT
The Evangelicals have been making the CNN and MSNBC rounds, explaining how they reconcile Trump with their incongruous support for him. Their canned responses all sound the same:

We didn't vote for Trump because he was morally acceptable to us. We voted for Trump because of where he stands on the issues.

I saw an interview with Billy Graham's son Franklin. Franklin was asked how he could support trump, who is guilty of moral terpitude. Franklin responded "he's a work in progress."
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Apr 2, 2018 - 09:43pm PT
Aren't we all.
Bruce Morris

Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
Apr 2, 2018 - 10:33pm PT
I've done a bit of sinning, but I didn't have enough money to make it into a political career.
Trump

climber
Apr 3, 2018 - 05:14am PT
Other people should vote the way I think they should vote for the reasons I think they should vote that way, and if they don’t, they must just be doing it wrong.

I like the idea of believing that a duck has a plan. Birds fly, humans do this believing thing.

Oh hey, look who’s president!
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Apr 3, 2018 - 10:55am PT
So, the Republicans believe that the US would be far better off if many gov't functions were privatized: The VA, Social Security, National Lands, etc.

But we don't have to speculate as to what the outcome would be if that were done. The experiment was carried out, in Russia:

Teams of American economists thought that if you privatized property correctly, the law and order and social cohesion would take care of themselves.

Social catastrophe followed. Russia’s average life expectancy fell below that of Bangladesh. The government went bankrupt. Members of the old Communist nomenklatura plundered the nation’s resources.

Of course, if you are a member of the "inner group" that has access to the resources, you look forward to this, as it represents an unholy opportunity to take things away from the people, and turn them into your own.

People like John E. support this, and his carefully contrived show to discourage people from voting for Clinton, and continually downplaying Trumps chances for election, really made this option really possible.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Apr 3, 2018 - 11:00am PT
David Brooks:

Putinism is based on the idea that people who are unlike you are sowing cultural chaos; they are undermining your way of life. Putin is continually railing against gays, Muslims, atheists, the “infertile and genderless” West.

In times of anxiety and distrust, it’s a lot easier to sell us/them distinctions than tolerance for cultural diversity.

In short, never underestimate this man or his cause. All over the world political regimes are adjusting, becoming either a little more authoritarian or a little more democratic. Right now, the momentum is clearly in the authoritarian direction. That’s in part because that side has a brilliant and reckless figure at its head. It’s also because when you pause to ask who is the global leader of the liberal democratic camp, you come up with no name at all.
Splater

climber
Grey Matter
Apr 3, 2018 - 03:48pm PT
Word of the day - odious adj. : see donny drump


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/opinion/jill-mccabe-the-president-attacked-my-reputation-it%e2%80%99s-time-to-set-the-record-straight/ar-AAvobbS?ocid=spartanntp
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Apr 3, 2018 - 05:39pm PT
Trump lied about McCabe.....? Shocking...!
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 3, 2018 - 10:13pm PT
Sinclair Broadcasting owns hundreds of local TV and radio stations across the United States. Sinclair is forcing local news anchors to read a corporate-mandated script about "fake news" that implies other sources (CNN, MSNBC, etc.) can't be trusted. The company provided wardrobe and posturing instructions to its news anchors, to ensure they project a "non-political" image while reading the statement. The script warning viewers about fake news doesn't mention the $13 million fine Sinclair recently paid because it had broadcast paid ads that were disguised to look like news stories (i.e., "fake news").

Not surprisingly, Trump tweeted his approval for Sinclair's fake news heads-up statement. Sinclair is currying favor with Trump because of a pending Sinclair takeover of the Tribune TV and radio stations. Sinclair is establishing a pervasive autocratic media system, like an American version of Pravda .



At the same time, the Roseanne Barr Show has been exhumed, and is back on TV. The episodes are newly made, not reruns, and are chock-full of unfunny musings on current events. Playing an older version of her former character, Barr is the opinionated housewife of an uneducated blue-collar family who voted for Trump. Roseanne Barr, in real life, supports Trump, and blathers online about long-debunked fringe conspiracies, like Hillary Clinton's child sex slave dungeon below a pizza parlor. The line between Barr's character and the real person is gone, and Barr's off-screen, real-life political antics are presented as if they were bonus episodes of the TV show.

Not surprisingly, Barr's new show is a big hit in the Midwest, and a flop on both coasts.



The Trump propaganda machine is shifting into a higher gear. It wants to discredit the Russian investigation so that the forthcoming mountain of evidence can be dismissed as "fake evidence". Right-wing pundits, like Sean Hannity, will say factual indictments and evidence are fake, and compare them to the Clinton Pizzagate hoax.

As Mueller gets closer and closer to Trump, he and his supporters will become more and more desperate in their autocratic maneuvering to stay in power. It is likely that aberrant behavior coming out of Moscow will also increase.







On a more humorous note, here is President Trump making a speech to young children at the annual White House Easter Egg Roll. Watch Melania's reaction as Trump's speech rambles into subject matter wholly inappropriate for the audience and the occasion.

[Click to View YouTube Video]

Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Apr 4, 2018 - 06:38am PT
An only slightly cryptic post from John Schindler on his @TheSpyBrief Twitter. because it's a pay-for account, I cannot quote, but he states that it's time to declare your fealty to Trump or your opposition; that there should still be mercy for those who honestly "don't get it," but from now on "not getting it" is a choice.

You'll have to subscribe if you want to discuss that further, or if you are one of the "don't get its" and have begun to question your position and want to learn why it is that the majority of people around the world(not just the US, and discounting those who have no limited or no access to media) are opposed.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Apr 4, 2018 - 07:02am PT
Corey Booker.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Apr 4, 2018 - 09:05am PT
that would contend that some of trump voters were innocents

Yes, it would, and I have no problem allowing that. At all. Frankly, I have had concerns that everything I myself have been counting on is smoke and mirror, calming the masses until we get the chop. While I don't THINK that is what is going on, I sure won't say I positively know it ain't. What I DO know, is that SOMETHING is going on, and whatever it is is serious, and a historic chain of events in the history of this country, if not the world.


Who are you thinking should run against President Trump in the next election?

I don't think about that, until the candidates begin to present themselves. I shamedly have to admit that when Obama got nominated, I was like "Really? You think the US is going to elect a black man? We can kiss this election good bye."

But, I don't think Trump will be running, if that's anything.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Apr 4, 2018 - 09:32am PT
Who are you thinking should run against President Trump in the next election?

DMT

Who we need are moderates. Unfortunately, the current political climate is unusually adversarial, which tilts the primaries towards hardliners, like Trump, Sanders or Warren.

From the GOP, I'd like to see Kasich, Huntsman or Sasse step up. If Nikki Haley ran, I'd campaign for her, even though she's got a nasty Trump taint to overcome.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Apr 4, 2018 - 09:32am PT
It will interesting to see who runs against Trump. Rubio is smeared with Trump stink, he blew it. Kaisch has the best chance of beating a liberal. Flake is obviously posturing for a run. he was smart to distance himself from Trump, but he is not moderate enough to overcome the Blue Wave.

edit: yeah, Huntsman and Sasse are voices of reason. I have some respect for Haley, but yeah, she smells

Trump will run, maybe even as an Independent, and screw the Republicans, he has no loyalty
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Apr 4, 2018 - 09:38am PT
by early 2019 the polls will be so negative that Trump will have no chance of reelection

he will declare victory and return to his opulent private life

Joe Biden will easily defeat any Republican and become President

the wave of anger and emotion against all things Republican will sweep the Dems into majority control of the House and Senate

open an account on betfair and put some money on it

Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Apr 4, 2018 - 10:18am PT
I find Kaisch extremely annoying
And any Republican will just be more of the same Republican policies that ruined this country in the first place

The only moderates are the Democrats,
what was f-ing Hillary?? a moderate

What single policy do the Democrats want that the majority of the population are not for?

Everyone wants :
SS, medicare, social services, common sense gun laws
affordable or single payer health care
affordable college, vocational programs
taxes paying for education, science, infrastructure
preserving wild lands and having strong environmental regulations and species protections
to stop discrimination

The Republicans work against these same issues
They take away protections, services and tax payer paid entitlements from the people
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Apr 4, 2018 - 10:34am PT
The world as we know it will be gone soon.

We have a regular at the naked section at Split Rock, who is into ashrams and that kind of thing. Which, I can do my best to hide my eye-rolling when listening to her, but.....

In the summer of 2016, she said her guru(or someone associated) had predicted that Obama would be the last president of the US, that the US as a country would fail, and that the world would be thrown into chaos.

Yes, I eye-rolled. Until the day after 2016 elections. Then I kind of went "ha, wouldn't it be weird....." And every day since, it has been more like "Well, everything considered, it's not implausible."

Not to rush things along, but I'm getting ready to push harder to get back to NY, and if it's just going to be one of those things where you look back and say "Well, that wasn't necessary......"


I hope you are wrong Moose. But if it happens, I hope I am swept away fairly quickly and painlessly. Besides, I want to see what the world is like in 2050, and look back and be amazed, and tell any youngster who will listen "Oh, yes, we had to actually steer and stop the physical vehicles. There was none of this virtual travel back then...."
divad

Trad climber
wmass
Apr 4, 2018 - 10:56am PT
had predicted that Obama would be the last president of the US


true so far..
brotherbbock

climber
So-Cal
Apr 4, 2018 - 11:12am PT
Neebraun......lmao

Fukn classic.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 4, 2018 - 11:47am PT
Who are you thinking should run against President Trump in the next election?

All the Democrats, and probably some Republicans, running in 2018 will be against Trump. Voters in Trump Land are going to be against him, too. The Chinese tariffs on US agricultural goods are going to hit his billy-bob fan base pretty hard.

By 2020, the only running Trump will be doing is from the law.



Mueller is working very methodically from the bottom up. He has not yet publicly mentioned the most important co-defendants. Mueller's interest in Roger Stone indicates that he is almost ready to start naming those who directly connected Putin to Trump. Trump thinks the collusion investigation is over, but it is just starting to get interesting. Trump thinks he is in the clear, because he is only a subject (not target) of the investigation. But, Mueller is prepared to upgrade his status at any time.



Trump filed his paperwork to compel Stormy Daniels to submit to arbitration. This puts him and his attorney Cohen in an untenable situation. They can no longer pretend that Cohen set up the LLC and paid the $130,000 out of his own pocket, without Trump's knowledge. The payment is now officially an illegal campaign contribution, and a felony under Federal law. Mueller will come poking around, to see if the money came from Russia.

The Stormy Daniels case is very likely to wind up in public court, with Trump being called as a witness, and having to testify under oath. That will be in addition to any questioning that Mueller subjects him to.


Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 4, 2018 - 01:01pm PT
This is the list of products that China is targeting with retaliatory tariffs to call Trump's bluff, and raise him his voter base.



Yellow soybean
Black soybean
Corn
Cornflour
Uncombed cotton
Cotton linters
Sorghum
Brewing or distilling dregs and waste
Other durum wheat
Other wheat and mixed wheat
Whole and half head fresh and cold beef
Fresh and cold beef with bones
Fresh and cold boneless beef
Frozen beef with bones
Frozen boneless beef
Frozen boneless meat
Other frozen beef chops
Dried cranberries
Frozen orange juice
Non-frozen orange juice
Whiskies
Unstemmed flue-cured tobacco
Other unstemmed tobacco
Flue-cured tobacco partially or totally removed
Partially or totally deterred tobacco stems
Tobacco waste
Tobacco cigars
Tobacco cigarettes
Cigars and cigarettes, tobacco substitutes
Hookah tobacco
Other tobacco for smoking
Reconstituted tobacco
Other tobacco and tobacco substitute products
SUVs with discharge capacity of 2.5L to 3L
Other vehicles equipped with an ignited reciprocating piston internal combustion engine and a drive motor that can be charged by plugging in an external power source. Cylinder capacity displacement exceeding 2500ml, but not exceeding 3000ml for SUVs (4 wheel drive)
Vehicles with discharge capacity of 1.5L to 2L
Other vehicles equipped with an ignited reciprocating piston internal combustion engine and a drive motor that can be charged by plugging in an external power source. Cylinder capacity displacement exceeding 1000ml, but not exceeding 1500ml for SUVs (4 wheel drive)
Passenger cars with discharge capacity 1.5L to 2L, 9 seats or less
Other vehicles equipped with an ignited reciprocating piston internal combustion engine and a drive motor that can be charged by plugging in an external power source. Cylinder capacity displacement exceeding 1000ml, but not exceeding 1500ml for 9 passenger cars and below
Passenger cars with discharge capacity of 3L to 4L, 9 seats or less
Other vehicles equipped with an ignited reciprocating piston internal combustion engine and a drive motor that can be charged by plugging in an external power source. Cylinder capacity displacement exceeding 3000ml, but not exceeding 4000ml for 9 passenger cars and below
Off-road vehicles with discharge capacity of 2L to 2.5L
Other vehicles equipped with an ignited reciprocating piston internal combustion engine and a drive motor that can be charged by plugging in an external power source. Cylinder capacity displacement exceeding 2000ml, but not exceeding 2500ml for off-road vehicles
Passenger cars with discharge capacity of 2L to 2.5L, 9 seats or less
Other vehicles equipped with an ignited reciprocating piston internal combustion engine and a drive motor that can be charged by plugging in an external power source. Cylinder capacity displacement exceeding 2000ml, but not exceeding 2500ml for 9 passenger cars and below
Off-road vehicles with discharge capacity of 3L to 4L
Other vehicles equipped with an ignited reciprocating piston internal combustion engine and a drive motor that can be charged by plugging in an external power source. Cylinder capacity displacement exceeding 3000ml, but not exceeding 4000ml for off-road vehicles
Diesel-powered off-road vehicles with discharge capacity of 2.5L to 3L
Other vehicles equipped with an ignited reciprocating piston internal combustion engine and a drive motor that can be charged by plugging in an external power source. Cylinder capacity displacement exceeding 2500ml, but not exceeding 3000ml for diesel-powered off-road vehicles
Passenger cars with discharge capacity of 2.5L to 3L, 9 seats or less
Other vehicles equipped with an ignited reciprocating piston internal combustion engine and a drive motor that can be charged by plugging in an external power source. Cylinder capacity displacement exceeding 2500ml, but not exceeding 3000ml for 9 passenger cars and below
Off-road vehicles with discharge capacity of less than 4L
Other vehicles equipped with an ignited reciprocating piston internal combustion engine and a drive motor that can be charged by plugging in an external power source. Cylinder capacity displacement not exceeding 4000ml for off-road vehicles
Other vehicles which are equipped with an ignited reciprocating piston internal combustion engine and a drive motor and can be charged by plugging in an external power source
Other vehicles that are equipped with a compression ignition type internal combustion engine (diesel or semi-diesel) and a drive motor, other than vehicles that can be charged by plugging in an external power source
Other vehicles which are equipped with an ignition reciprocating piston internal combustion engine and a drive motor and can be charged by plugging in an external power source
Other vehicles that are equipped with a compression-ignition reciprocating piston internal combustion engine and a drive motor that can be charged by plugging in an external power source
Other vehicles that only drive the motor
Other vehicles
Other gasoline trucks of less than 5 tons
Transmissions and parts for motor vehicles not classified
Liquefied Propane
Primary Shaped Polycarbonate
Supported catalysts with noble metals and their compounds as actives
Diagnostic or experimental reagents attached to backings, except for goods of tariff lines 32.02, 32.06
Chemical products and preparations for the chemical industry and related industries, not elsewhere specified
Products containing PFOS and its salts, perfluorooctanyl sulfonamide or perfluorooctane sulfonyl chloride in note 3 of this chapter
Items listed in note 3 of this chapter containing four, five, six, seven or octabromodiphenyl ethers
Contains 1,2,3,4,5,6-HCH (6,6,6) (ISO), including lindane (ISO, INN)
Primarily made of dimethyl (5-ethyl-2-methyl-2oxo-1,3,2-dioxaphosphorin-5-yl)methylphosphonate and double [(5-b Mixtures and products of 2-methyl-2-oxo-1,3,2-dioxaphosphorin-5-yl)methyl] methylphosphonate (FRC-1)
38248600a articles listed in note 3 to this chapter containing PeCB (ISO) or Hexachlorobenzene (ISO)
Containing aldrin (ISO), toxaphene (ISO), chlordane (ISO), chlordecone (ISO), DDT (ISO) [Diptrix (INN), 1,1,1-trichloro-2 ,2-Bis(4-chlorophenyl)ethane], Dieldrin (ISO, INN), Endosulfan (ISO), Endrin (ISO), Heptachlor (ISO) or Mirex (ISO). The goods listed in note 3 of this chapter
Other carrier catalysts
Other polyesters
Reaction initiators, accelerators not elsewhere specified
Polyethylene with a primary shape specific gravity of less than 0.94
Acrylonitrile
Lubricants (without petroleum or oil extracted from bituminous minerals)
Diagnostic or experimental formulation reagents, whether or not attached to backings, other than those of heading 32.02, 32.06
Lubricant additives for oils not containing petroleum or extracted from bituminous minerals
Primary Shaped Epoxy Resin
Polyethylene Terephthalate Plate Film Foil Strips
Other self-adhesive plastic plates, sheets, films and other materials
Other plastic non-foam plastic sheets
Other plastic products
Other primary vinyl polymers
Other ethylene-α-olefin copolymers, specific gravity less than 0.94
Other primary shapes of acrylic polymers
Other primary shapes of pure polyvinyl chloride
Polysiloxane in primary shape
Other primary polysulphides, polysulfones and other tariff numbers as set forth in note 3 to chapter 39 are not listed.
Plastic plates, sheets, films, foils and strips, not elsewhere specified
1,2-Dichloroethane (ISO)
Halogenated butyl rubber sheets, strips
Other heterocyclic compounds
Adhesives based on other rubber or plastics
Polyamide-6,6 slices
Other primary-shaped polyethers
Primary Shaped, Unplasticized Cellulose Acetate
Aromatic polyamides and their copolymers
Semi-aromatic polyamides and their copolymers
Other polyamides of primary shape
Other vinyl polymer plates, sheets, strips
Non-ionic organic surfactants
Lubricants (containing oil or oil extracted from bituminous minerals and less than 70% by weight)
Aircraft and other aircraft with an empty weight of more than 15,000kg but not exceeding 45,000kg
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Apr 4, 2018 - 01:40pm PT
Getting a little tried of the whole Trump thing but I'd really like to see Warren take a DNA test. Hopefully someone will get a sample from her by hook or by crook if she won't do it willingly.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 4, 2018 - 01:57pm PT
Trump says he is going to call up the National Guard and send them to the Mexican border. The reserve troops will be pulled away from their families, homes and jobs, and deployed in the desert. Most of them will come from Texas and Arizona, both of which voted for Trump in 2016.

Voter remorse will be running at an all-time high by November.


https://www.sfgate.com/news/texas/article/The-Latest-Trump-promises-strong-action-on-12804396.php


fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Apr 4, 2018 - 02:09pm PT
Trump would be better to ask "Who funded this supposed caravan of 1000's of people through Mexico". Such movement requires large amounts of $$$, coordination, planning, food,water etc. Displaced homeless people cannot 'walk' across Mexico.
divad

Trad climber
wmass
Apr 4, 2018 - 02:41pm PT
^^^^I dunno, this is an annual event. Who funded it last year and the year before that?
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Apr 4, 2018 - 03:17pm PT
Brewing or distilling dregs and waste

I was not aware that the Chinese drank Budweiser
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Apr 4, 2018 - 03:19pm PT
blah blah said:

Getting a little tried of the whole Trump thing

not surprised you are getting tired, you voted for him and the daily almost hourly flat out lying must be tiring

but I'd really like to see Warren take a DNA test. Hopefully someone will get a sample from her by hook or by crook if she won't do it willingly.

that all you got? you would "really" like Elizabeth Warren to be proven wrong that she was told growing up that she had some native american ancestry? really?
why is that such a really big deal to you?

just a good guess, One - so it deflects, about an hour in the media a little attention away from you being "tired" of Trump's lying

Two - because it proves that a Democrat may "lie" about her ancestry, therefore you can claim the US President's constant relentless lying is ok because "both parties do it"

every heard of the phrase "False Equivalence"? google it
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Apr 4, 2018 - 03:39pm PT

that all you got? you would "really" like Elizabeth Warren to be proven wrong that she was told growing up that she had some native american ancestry? really?
why is that such a really big deal to you?

just a good guess, One - so it deflects, about an hour in the media a little attention away from you being "tired" of Trump's lying

Two - because it proves that a Democrat may "lie" about her ancestry, therefore you can claim the US President's constant relentless lying is ok because "both parties do it"

every heard of the phrase "False Equivalence"? google it

As I understand it, there are many millions of white Americans who have a "family lore" that they are part Indian. Of course some of them are. Many if not most of them are not.
As far as can be discerned, Warren is in the "are not" camp.
It's disrespectful to real Indians to claim to be one, even in part, when that's simply not true.

And the old "that's what my parents told me" is a load of crap. In general, most of us believe our parents, most of the time. But here, anyone who does 10 seconds of research can learn that false claims of family lore of Indian ancestry are rampant. Does Warren somehow think that this can't apply to her?

And what about her plagiarized recipe in Pow Wow Chow cookbook? First, she shouldn't have even been featured in the book because she's not Indian. Second, why did she shamelessly plagiarize?

Admit it: Warren is a big a liar as Trump. If you want to call out Trump for lying, great, but remember your hero Warren is just as bad!
rincon

climber
Coarsegold
Apr 4, 2018 - 03:46pm PT
Warren is a big a liar as Trump. If you want to call out Trump for lying, great, but remember your hero Warren is just as bad!

Warren = 1 possible lie.

Trump = Thousands of lies.

Yup same thing.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Apr 4, 2018 - 05:32pm PT
Yep ,we could get a ton more for our tax money with Bernie,but we would not have all this great drama. Just think ,we could be near as in debt as we are now and we could redistribute some effen wealth.

Tulsi Gabbard.

Edit, We..............
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Apr 4, 2018 - 05:32pm PT
Warren is a big a liar as Trump

What a delicious irony, lying about the lies
WBraun

climber
Apr 4, 2018 - 05:38pm PT
Mueller is working very methodically from the bottom up

LOL, and you people believe all this horsesh!t they feed you daily.

Mueller don't know sh!t, and you people have been own and will continue to be own by these clowns running this horsesh!t .....
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Apr 4, 2018 - 06:18pm PT
Duck dynasty be own...quack , quack , quack...
zBrown

Ice climber
Apr 4, 2018 - 07:44pm PT

"That's some fu_cked_up_shit"
zBrown

Ice climber
Apr 4, 2018 - 08:08pm PT

A federal judge in New York has denied Bill O'Reilly's motion to seal settlement agreements he struck with multiple women who accused him of harassment, dealing a huge blow to the former Fox News host in a defamation suit brought last year
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Apr 4, 2018 - 08:11pm PT
Maybe Trump will grab OReilly's pussy and make it all better....?
zBrown

Ice climber
Apr 4, 2018 - 08:42pm PT
Meanwhile

Zombie Raccoons are terrorizing an Ohio town

Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Apr 4, 2018 - 09:47pm PT
So the dems had another YUUUUUGE victory, this time for the Supreme Court in Wis.

I think a lot of Americans are tired of being embarrassed by the President.

They are tired of amateur hour. They are tired of people placed in gov't, who are hell-bent on destroying the gov't.

So I'm thinking along the lines of a professional, with many years of experience, who is thought well of by people on both sides, and who is thought to be honorable, and a gentleman.

It's hard to think of someone who has those qualities more than Biden.
Risk

Mountain climber
Marooned, 855 miles from Tuolumne Meadows
Apr 4, 2018 - 10:20pm PT
I would vote for Biden. Great man.

No brainer. One of us.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Apr 4, 2018 - 10:46pm PT
Lol..... omg...

Werner is right.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Apr 5, 2018 - 09:17am PT
And now, the Federal gov't has taken another step to "making America great again", by bringing back slavery:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/04/opinion/migrants-detention-forced-labor.html
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Apr 5, 2018 - 01:32pm PT
And now, the Federal gov't has taken another step to "making America great again", by bringing back slavery:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/04/opinion/migrants-detention-forced-labor.html

Remember the old saying: don't do the crime if you can't do the time.
No one made these guys break the immigration laws by sneaking into the US.
If they do that and get caught, it's basically on them. Not saying they should be mistreated, but making them do a little work to pay for the their upkeep seems pretty fair, unless you think they would be good with getting a bill after they're released?