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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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She had the GriGri and it did it's job.
HaHaHaHaaaa
THATS what I'm talkin bout.
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TLP
climber
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A friend saw a belayer get lifted off the ground and knocked out against a rock. He was using a grigri so nobody got hurt.
...but only because fortunately the leader didn't hit something in that extra distance. And why was it that the belayer wasn't clipped in??? Lapses in proper technique that only take a few seconds are much more likely to result in injury, potentially really bad, than what device is on the rope. Ghost's story is pretty alarming but most of us have the sense or good geographic luck not to climb in that kind of rock... :-))
That said, good points from all posts. My opinion? Just don't fall!
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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..but only because fortunately the leader didn't hit something in that extra distance. And why was it that the belayer wasn't clipped in??? Lapses in proper technique that only take a few seconds are much more likely to result in injury, potentially really bad, than what device is on the rope. Ghost's story is pretty alarming but most of us have the sense or good geographic luck not to climb in that kind of rock... :-))
It was Larry Zulim who saw it happen to his friend. Those old timer Yosemite people are too lazy to clip in on belay
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Most (all) of my partners would never "require" me use a Gri Gri (or what ev's). Pretty comfy with an ATC (Petzl Reverso 4 mostly).
Closest I've ever come to being dropped was with a partner new to using a Gri Gri. Through direct observation, I think its the most misused belay device out there.
At least the ATC requires (ok demands) attention. The Gri Gri allows folks to get complacent. Or, they just never learn how to properly use it.
I have an original and the newer versions of the Gri Gri. Great for some self belay. I really hesitate handing one to a partner I'm unfamiliar with.
That said, a couple of folks I climb with are super savvy with an autolocker. No issues with them belaying me with one.
Ditto on never dropping anyone. I've caught, and been caught, on pretty hard, sudden falls on an ATC (as well as munter and hip belay).
Luddites unite!
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BruceHildenbrand
Social climber
Mountain View/Boulder
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Climb with whatever makes you feel safest. For me that's not one device or another, it's a partner who knows how to correctly use the device they have.
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skywalker1
Trad climber
co
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Belaying is the easiest part of climbing. Why do we need to over analyze it? Do what is most efficient and safe.
S...
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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because of my heightened sense of safety, I also wish all my belayers could provide me that extra assurance of safety.
This and all the other "grigris are safer" comments couldn't be more perfectly wrong. No device is 'safe' or 'safer' and in the wrong hands any device can maim and kill.
In the case of autoblocking devices, let's be upfront about why they've taken over the world and it's not about 'belaying' as they were designed for hanging not belaying. And in their facility for 'just working' 99% of the time there is a whole unspoken spectre of them promoting really lousy belaying behaviors on such a mass scale they all but turn the demographic into a random dropping generator. That, and god forbid you should be one of the 1% when they simply don't work.
Bottom line is if you need an autoblocking device to be a safer belayer then I don't want you belaying me; if you need me to use an autoblocking device for you to feel safer then you shouldn't be climbing with me.
So, I also wish all belayers could provide you that extra assurance of safety - but that has nothing whatsoever to do with what device they're using to belay you.
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Byran
climber
Half Dome Village
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No device is 'safe' or 'safer' and in the wrong hands any device can maim and kill.
Just because no device is perfectly safe doesn't mean that some aren't safer than others. An ATC requires a firm grip on the brake strand at all times, the grigri does not. Humans, imperfect as they are, will not maintain a firm grip on the brake strand 100% of the time. For that reason I believe the grigri is probably safer.
But to know for sure a randomized controlled trial would need to be done where climbers (who are familiar with both devices) are randomly separated into two groups, each group uses the assigned device to belay, and then the injuries and deaths are tallied until enough data has been collected. It's possible that they would come out the same, or maybe the risk of threading the grigri backwards outweighs it's autolocking function. The world will likely never know. But I feel safer with by belayer clipped into a grigri.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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I will use whatever equiptment the rope gun requests though i will let them know that i am less likly to short rope them with an ATC. If i am the rope gun then you will use whatever device you are most comfortable with.
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Russ Walling
Social climber
from Poofters Froth, Wyoming
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Moooose writes For multi pitch I use a Trango Cinch. It's much lighter than a Gri-Gri and feeds the rope better.
Really? I know this is the internet and all, but....
GriGri2 = 5.996 ounces
Trango Cinch = 6.42 ounces
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WBraun
climber
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Bottom line is if you need an autoblocking device to be a safer belayer then I don't want you belaying me
Way too funny here,
I've felt safer belaying with a grigri.
I've belayed El Cap routes in the early days with just a hip belay.
I hate that st00pid atc and never used it ......
GriGri2 = 5.996 ounces
Trango Cinch = 6.42 ounces
LOL ... The other thing I find so st00pid is people say this device is 1.5 ounces lighter than that device and that is why I use it.
Then you look at the overkill rack they are carrying so many cams and nuts it weighs a ton ...lol
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dhayan
climber
culver city, ca
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I've been knocked to the ground from a dislodged block using an atc and managed to not drop my partner (barely). I now use the Edelrid mega jul and after getting used to it really dig it. Lighter than atc, can rap with auto locking option, auto locks every time I've caught a fall. No need to carry anything else. If you use the edelrid belay carabiner it feeds really smoothly.
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Russ Walling
Social climber
from Poofters Froth, Wyoming
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LOL ... The other thing I find so st00pid is people say this device is 1.5 ounces lighter than that device and that is why I use it.
Then you look at the overkill rack they are carrying so many cams and nuts it weighs a ton ...lol
Giant rack, a pack, full bowels and two quarts of water clipped to the harness... Lite is Right LOL
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Wow... a good topic about climbing.
Lots of good responses here....
Personally I started using a Grigri when Sport Climbing, hanging, will be going on.... if the sport climbing is easy and no hanging, I go with the ATC/pro.
If out climbing, I only bring the ATC.
I never rap with a grigri....the whole one rope deal with extra knots seems just to prone to getting stuck.... and I never simul-rap (that's really whacked out, IMHO)
I agree 100% that its the belayer- not the device that ensures safety... with that being said, I recently was asked by a long time partner to teach him how to use a Grigri properly. This is due to health issues and just getting older. I figure any of us could just drop dead at any second.
At the A-hills recently, Eric Beck and a woman, a gracious lady- Ann- if I recall correctly- who looked to be about 72, who obviously was no noob to the sport, was belaying Eric. She had a Grigri and was pretty clumsy using it. So Matt, a 20 something climber, politely asked her if she wanted some pointers. Yes she said... by the time Eric reached the anchors, Ann was stripping out rope for the clips, kept the brake hand "on"... and lowered Eric smooth as silk.
Old dogs do learn new tricks.
EDIT: To answer topic. NO I would not change what I do, because a partner asked me to. For instance, if they handed me a MegaJewel, for double rope use... I would tell them "I'm not qualified/comfortable using that.... maybe you need to find a different partner.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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I thought the grigri was an autodrop device?
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phylp
Trad climber
Upland, CA
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Great question Mei.
I have not asked my partners to switch but I recently switched myself, to a Mega Jul, for lead belay and multipitch. It's amazing how that thing locks up. Took some getting used to but I'm mostly using a 60 m at 9.4mm for multipitch and I like the added security compared to the Atc. For sport climbing I am happy to use my grigri 2 to lead belay but usually use it for people seconding.
This is a good conversation to have with partners.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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If sport climbers used ATCs for the past 30 years instead of GriGris, I think there'd be way more accidents than with the GriGris.
One of the reasons ATCs seem statistically safer is that the people who typically use them don't actually fall.
If there is going to be falling, and if you use the GriGri properly, it's way safer, IMO.
If you're a lazy putz who can't take the time to read the manual, watch some videos and keep an open mind and eye to learn all the subtleties from others around you for at least a few years - there is no safe device for you regardless.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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I've felt safer belaying with a grigri.
You guys climb big walls; maybe it's an attention span deal...
Just because no device is perfectly safe doesn't mean that some aren't safer than others.
That's exactly what it means.
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ionlyski
Trad climber
Polebridge, Montana
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I won't lead if yer belaying me with a GriGri period. Impossible to feed out rope quickly without holding it "open" and that requires leaving the brake end of the rope.
Arne
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Impossible to feed out rope quickly without holding it "open" and that requires leaving the brake end of the rope. This is wrong, RTFM.
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