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Matt's
climber
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Oct 24, 2017 - 06:56pm PT
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I think that a change in the pricing structure is reasonable, if the goal is to:
(a) discourage use during peak times
(b) adequately fund the park system
The specifics of the funding plan, however, don't make much sense to me:
(a) there is essentially no reason to purchase a day pass anymore, given how close it is in cost to a yearly pass-- unclear how much extra revenue they will actually get.
(b) I imagine that the current administration plans to use a forecasted increase in revenues from the parks to offset a smaller budget for the national parks.
best,
matt
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Oct 24, 2017 - 07:03pm PT
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Off White, yer quoting the Pentagon's New Math Accounting System prices.
The real price is more like 200 MILLION PHUKKING SAMOLIANS PER!
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Oct 24, 2017 - 07:15pm PT
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It is “our” park and we pay taxes toward keeping there upkeep. So we should get a little bit of a discount... The typical "discount" after factoring the typical American's "tax contribution" would be the Wall Street prick getting a fat refund at the gate while the rest pay a $700 toll - there's your fug-gin "we pay our taxes and want something back for it" discount.
Go collect a dead blade of grass on your way out as a reminder of how much your piece of "our" park adds up to.
no reason to purchase a day pass anymore Well, it would seem someone has probably figured that one out - most users are probably 1 and done, even if they buy a yearly. They're probably even banking on that extra $10 everyone will shell out just in case there's a second trip - like Comcast goes down for the wknd or something.
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monolith
climber
state of being
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Oct 24, 2017 - 09:37pm PT
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You can bet the yearly pass will rise dramatically sooner than later if the day pass goes to $70.
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Oct 24, 2017 - 10:53pm PT
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Interesting. ..
It would be extremely unfair to the middle and lower class that have just as much right to enjoy our national parks. On the flip side- its a way to moderate crowding during busy months- albeit a fvcked up one. I predict an Annual pass would likely double in price if this gets implemented.
Senior lifetime pass is $80 now BTW. Still a great value.
It won't fix the money deficit BTW- from what I've observed- "they" (Insert federal agency *here*) - can waste money at an equal rate of any increase of funds. The system is disfunctional in the extreme when it comes to money management.
Ps @ cwillmot- although I agree with part of our post-- I have to put i my $.02 on interpretive hosts since I work with a couple of the best. Interpretive rangers are the front line to people being educated about and respecting a resource . They are often one of the most valuable and memorable parts of a visitor's experience. Without interp rangers- what you are left with is a kiosk to take your money, an office with a couple burnt- out lackeys issuing permits and a concessionaire who can sell you a book if you have any questions
What we need is more interp rangers and less worthless lazy pencil- pushers doing as little as possible while collecting a paycheck. More sensible and sane fund allocation could go a long way too.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
Wilds of New Mexico
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Oct 24, 2017 - 11:07pm PT
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The interpretive rangers rule! We camped at Chaco Canyon last week and they did an amazing night sky program. My kids loved it. The NPS does a lot of great work. Congress should give more money to the parks.
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Oct 24, 2017 - 11:11pm PT
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"Congress should give more money to the parks."
yup
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c wilmot
climber
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Oct 25, 2017 - 05:37am PT
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What we need is more interp rangers and less worthless lazy pencil- pushers doing as little as possible while collecting a paycheck.
The interps are doing zero maintanaince work. The proposed fee increase is to deal with a backlog of deferred maintenance work.
If you want entertainers in a park to parent your kids- then go to Disney
The parks need to get back to maintaining our wilderness lands for future generations to enjoy
We don't need the green dragon doing circles. Especially when the interpretation ranger is so bored they are making things up to tell tourists. Money not so well spent
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Oct 25, 2017 - 05:54am PT
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We all carry an interpretive ranger in our pockets now. It's called "the phone".
I'm OK with user fees. Places without user fees are the places littered with piles of trash and diapers in the creek.
Besides, someone who never visits the parks shouldn't be subsidizing my recreation through their taxes when I'm fully capable of paying for it myself.
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beaner
Social climber
Maine
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Oct 25, 2017 - 06:40am PT
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I live in a park town, Bar Harbor (Acadia)
The T-Shirt and trinket shop owners and SUP rental places are up in arms because they think it will discourage day-trippers. I think they should offer a $20-30 single day entrance pass. People here on vacation will have no problem spending $70 on a 7-day pass, but I don't really think they should charge some dude driving up from Portland to go climbing for an afternoon $70.
Here, locals can buy half price annual passes in December. Doesn't matter much to me, because I get an employee sticker as a SAR volunteer plus I buy the $80 pass for the whole NPS system.
It's getting too crowded here though. Selfishly, maybe this will be a good thing for me.
As far as complaining about the number of interp rangers, I think they do good work. Some of my fondest vacation memories are of taking my young son on ranger-lead hikes or bringing him to ranger presentations at the NPS campgrounds we stayed at. At Acadia, it seems most of the seasonal employees are working trail maintenance or entrance station. Not sure how many seasonal interp or LE rangers they bring in, but it's not really that many.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Oct 25, 2017 - 06:56am PT
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We all carry an interpretive ranger in our pockets now. It's called "the phone".
The money should be spent on cell towers (and occasional back country solar recharging stations) to blanket every square inch of the parks with interpretive information! See the tagged wildlife in real time! SAR will have your exact location should something go wrong!
A taco bar at Olmsted Point would be nice too.
Getting rid of kiosk/ single lane bottle necks at park entrances is what some money should be allocated for.
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10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
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Oct 25, 2017 - 07:41am PT
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In retrospect, this is part of drumpf's plan to get rid of National Parks.
He will say that since no one shows up to the parks anymore, let's sell them off.
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Q- Ball
Mountain climber
but to scared to climb them anymore
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Oct 25, 2017 - 07:49am PT
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Come to the Great Smoky Mountains NP it is free. Most visited in the country...
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klaus
Big Wall climber
Florence & Normandy
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Oct 25, 2017 - 07:53am PT
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I agree with JLP make it at least $200 to get in.
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John M
climber
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Oct 25, 2017 - 07:53am PT
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a smart phone isn't much use if you don't know the questions to ask. Such as why its important to not litter.
I don't drive in LA.. so I don't want my federal tax money spent on roads in LA. Or for that matter my state tax money. Following that, I have never been to north dakota and have no plans to go.. so stop federal roads there. Since you will price me out of the national parks, I don't want money spent on the roads that connect them. I pay road tax like everyone else, so you should do what I say. In fact, lets just only build toll roads. That should make everything Sooooo much better. eye roll. Now we will hear from someone who drives on a toll road and likes it so much better. Never mind they won't understand how they got to that toll road. On public roads. Nor will they understand how public roads make it possible for people to almost survive on minimum wage.
Good grief. some of you people need to be sent to reeducation camps.
signed.. the Decider
Let them eat cake.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
Wilds of New Mexico
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Oct 25, 2017 - 08:11am PT
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When I worked for the USFS it irritated me that there was never enough money to do actual work while at the same time there is always plenty of funding for significant office staffs. I recognize that administrative work is an important part of land management but also think the land managing agencies could get back to their roots and require ALL employees to spend at least one day a week in the field doing some type of work that directly benefits the public. Trails, maintenance, visitor assistance, whatever.
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wheatBeer
Social climber
TheBronx
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Oct 25, 2017 - 09:02am PT
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The proposal of the fees is offensive.
Lets make sure that the regular American can not enjoy Americas wonders when the one chance to do it comes along
$70 to get in
$20 a night to camp
Grand Canyon overnight backpacking
$70 to get in
$10 Permit
$8 per person/per night
4 people for 3 nights = $176
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Radish
Trad climber
SeKi, California
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Oct 25, 2017 - 09:21am PT
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70 dollars a car is for a 7 day pass. That's 10 dollars a day....not too bad! If you visited the Parks these last several years in the summer, you've seen the massive lines with 2 hour plus waits to get in. Lines in Yosemite almost making it to Oakhurst!! And then when all the cars with all the people make it inside there are cars parked everywhere and people everywhere tramping through all the meadows and forests with everything that that brings with it. Lots of SARs that cost the parks big money not the lost. I think the big battle here is how much of all that money the budget cut parks get to keep!!
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Oct 25, 2017 - 09:30am PT
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While I am having some sticker shock at the idea, as I had NO idea it cost $25 for the Grand Canyon the first tie I visited(but I got lucky, as I came in on one of the Free days), and the idea that it would almost be triple with this proposed increase.
But one thing I have learned, from seeing the "inside" of what it takes to keep up with costs for an outdoor rec area is that, is that from the outside, one often is clueless as to what is actually being done that requires money to make happen. Everyone has an idea how said monies ought to be spent, or ought NOT to be spent, and that's real easy when you haven't spent any time actually understanding what needs to be done and how much that costs(people seem to be stuck on 1970's costs for goods and services, it seems, which is a fairly COMMON trait in the minds of us as we age(and start to become senile).
I have to wonder if the fee increase is absolutely a way to discourage visitors who haven't much stake in the place, and to reduce the need to do an overall increase for those who DO hold stake(locals who visit often, and inclusive NPS passholders).
Perhpas if they had gone into that. Something like :We can do this proposal A, which targets the infrequent user, or we can make an overall increase to ALL users(many of which might be likely to get around the fees anyway, by car-pooling with friends and doing the "before/after" arrival and departure thing.
We may not think the plan is the best idea and for those who feel that way - don't forget to send in your opinion! I don't think the NPS is monitoring the various places it is being discussed online....
Meanwhile....do I see the potential for a new peer-to-peer entrepreneurial venture? Think AirBnB or HipCamp, but for NPS Peak Season Entry. Passholders register as "hosts" and visitors register as well, visitors. Hosts have a web page on the site where they post what they have to offer, along with the all-important pass. Type of person they are, type of vehicle they will drive, willingness to provide insights for the visitors visit, days available to host, charge for the service.... The Visitor searches by park and days they want to visit, and lists of matching hosts are indexed.
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Oct 25, 2017 - 09:42am PT
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Quote Ontheedge:
..."it irritated me that there was never enough money to do actual work while at the same time there is always plenty of funding for significant office staffs. I recognize that administrative work is an important part of land management but also think the land managing agencies could get back to their roots and require ALL employees to spend at least one day a week in the field doing some type of work that directly benefits the public. Trails, maintenance, visitor assistance, whatever."
THAT^^^ is exactly the issue that I observe daily and drives me crazy as well. I can't agree more.
Quote Wilmot: "The interps are doing zero maintanaince work."
Well- it may be an anomaly, but at my location that is totally untrue. We are at a remote location where maintenance crews show up infrequently, so maintenance is often handled by our interp rangers.
I make no debate about the poor maintenance crews being woefully understaffed and underfunded to perform their basic duties let alone make any improvements. It's very sad.
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