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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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May 30, 2017 - 07:15pm PT
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Kingtut....I don't think they were doing it for self-aggrandizement with little regard for the future. They were living in the present and pioneering a completely (on the world stage) new type of climbing.
It's hard to imagine that they could have forseen what their efforts would open up. Could they have predicted the Internet, Google and Facebook?
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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May 30, 2017 - 08:46pm PT
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"Self-aggrandizement" ?? Are you fukking kidding me?!
I placed some heads the other day - good ol Donny! - because that's what it took to climb the pitch.
What say ye kingtut?
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Kalimon
Social climber
Ridgway, CO
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May 30, 2017 - 09:13pm PT
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No, they did what they did for their own self-aggrandizement, with little concern for the future.
This is the human condition on so many levels . . . JT is correct in his observation . . . his definition of self-aggrandizement is not as sinister as others are interpreting. The ego is the self-aggrandizer . . . we all have an ego of varying magnitudes . . . we all self-aggrandize.
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nathanael
climber
CA
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May 30, 2017 - 10:49pm PT
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weird I climbed the nose this weekend and didn't notice any extra bolts
oh yea cause i didn't f*#king bail
also couldn't locate the hoards of niad'ers who were apparently climbing to dolt and bailing as a result of the anchors, maybe they're just too fast to spot now that there are more bolts
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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May 30, 2017 - 11:53pm PT
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He will make climbing, GREAT, again!
Yeah.
Right.
It's gonna be yuge! We're going to be winning so much that we'll get tired of winning.
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WBraun
climber
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May 31, 2017 - 07:58am PT
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Tom Rohrer was the first guy to put in Nose rap route.
Back then they were against it.
It saved quite a few people's asses.
I carried water for Tom from Tamarack to the top of El Cap.
He was going to do the rap bolt route whether I carried water for him or not.
I needed a haul sack to climb El Cap.
He told me if I carry some gallons of water for him he'll give me a haul sack of which he did.
Thus I'm an accomplice in this criminal event, lol .... :-)
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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May 31, 2017 - 08:35am PT
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Too many monkeys, not enough trees...
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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May 31, 2017 - 11:29am PT
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I just think people need to realize they can't keep using hammers on El Cap forever until all the routes look like the worst of Yosemite blown out routes.
There's some truth to that, for sure. But I don't think that this is the issue at play here.
There's no "until" regarding existing routes that wootboi is dumbing down.
In the middle of Hook or Book on the Sea is a small seam that had a single (totally natural) #2 head in it. Now, that's right where you'd love some real "pro," but that one small head was the only natural placement to be had. The FA team left it fixed SO THAT it wouldn't get blown out by repeated removal/placement cycles, and it looked stainless steel to me. GOOD head, for what it was, and totally natural. That should have been the only placement there for decades and decades to come (with judicious removal/replacement of a stainless #2 every few decades, that placement would have lasted effectively "forever").
But nooooo. When we were up there a decade later, here's that same spot festooned with MULTIPLE trenched heads, tie-offs "equalizing" them, and the whole thing looked like a rat's nest of crap. Some of those trenched heads were #4! ALL of this crap amounted to basically "chicken bolting," and there's no doubt that at some point somebody is going to add a full-on bolt there. And crap like that literally ruins the character of what was a brilliant pitch! I feel HONORED that I got to do it in its original state!
Now, it could be argued that Bridwell, Bard, and Diegelman put up a "manufactured route" anyway, which they certainly did. But the key is in the essence of the "manufacturing." Climbing is ALL "artificial difficulty," and the real issue is that different FAs have different characters. These widely varied characters of routes provide the climbing community a "shared resource" of various "ways to play the game," with different routes specifying "different rules," so to speak. And, given that the rock itself is a shared resource, there are limits to how many "ways to play the game" can be fit onto a given section of rock.
Throughout climbing history, first-ascentionists have taken their responsibility seriously, and the vast majority have "played the game" well by all accounts. So, it's not like "the game" the vast majority have played has been "invalid" and in need of "correction." There is NO need for the Sea to be dumbed down to some "accessible" level. And the "effort" to do so literally deprives the climbing community of one "way to play the game" that is extremely valuable and in short supply.
There's a simple principle that has been almost universally followed throughout climbing history: Leave the FA in as close to its original character as possible. And if that principle were followed, there would not be a festoon of trenched heads in the middle of Hook or Book! There is no "until" in this context! Just LEAVE IT AS THE FA TEAM LEFT IT!
What wootboi does is GUT this simple principle, taking it upon himself alone to decide where "the level" should be. Yes, FA teams themselves decide this, but, as I said, the vast majority of FA teams have established "levels" that are worthy of emulation, seeking to rise to "the level" that the rock itself sets. And when "a level" HAS been established, it is unconscionable to then dumb it down for "accessibility" or "convenience." But dumb it down is what wootboi lives for.
My $0.02.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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May 31, 2017 - 11:48am PT
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$200.02
Fixed it.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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May 31, 2017 - 12:06pm PT
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Go chop the bolts and kick Sloan's ass on your way out.
...or just sit here and fill Superloser with your dumb-a$$ opinions on the matter.
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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May 31, 2017 - 12:23pm PT
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In other words King, what's ok for you to do, is not ok for common folk or the younger generation.
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WBraun
climber
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May 31, 2017 - 12:24pm PT
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the "Dolt Run"
Was already being done a lot with 2 rope rappels.
There's no difference except you can now do it with one rope rappel or whatever.
Whoopty doo.
Ya still gotta climb it with one or 2 ropes.
Look at heart fixed lines and free blast.
It's Yosemite Valley, between two major metropolitan centers and international airports, as the largest outdoors insane asylum except the walls are NOT padded ..... :-)
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drF
Trad climber
usa
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May 31, 2017 - 12:29pm PT
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as the largest outdoors insane asylum ..... :-)
Bwaahaha....but so true!
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anita514
Gym climber
Great White North
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May 31, 2017 - 12:41pm PT
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Please tell us more, KingTut
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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May 31, 2017 - 01:21pm PT
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It's hard to say who looks more thrilled, Anita or Mike behind her.
"Go chop the bolts and kick Sloan's ass on your way out.
...or just sit here and fill Superloser with your dumb-a$$ opinions on the matter."
Bwah ha ha ha ha! Superloser indeed.
The sounds of all the Hammers, tuning forks and epoxy tubes removing and repairing Erik repel bolts has been completely drowned out by the sound of crickets.
It's still sprinkling up here, I had to make another pot of coffee for me and Sean.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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May 31, 2017 - 01:23pm PT
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Heretics and Saviors. But can they color coordinate?
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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May 31, 2017 - 01:45pm PT
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Im sure you old timers were bad A back in your day. Let the new kids decide whats best for their generation.
Gym climbers unite!
The time for Mr. Sloan to become Mr. Pierce is now.
And a tattoo of a peregrine in flight on the Boot...woo-woo-woot!
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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May 31, 2017 - 01:47pm PT
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BTW, the green thing to do would be bolting all cracks. This would save having to produce any cams, stoppers, pins... Become earth conscious climbers.
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drF
Trad climber
usa
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May 31, 2017 - 01:55pm PT
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You know, like make an intelligent argument?
Because, you haven't so far....
Down climb off your tiny pedestal. You've already done SO much
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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May 31, 2017 - 03:59pm PT
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When I read the OP I was thinking what's the big deal, it's a rap route. He isn't changing the challenge of a climb. But I think some people posted some good arguments against adding stations. Basically turning it into free blast 2. It's interesting to hear others opinions on it, but as always those that take action on the stone will have the last word.
And Royal did see the future and the need to protect the resource. Royal and Yvon were the main driving force for clean climbing in America. They got it and communicated it out long before most people had a clue. We all owe them a debt of gratitude. And we need to be vigilant and keep educating future climbers about why it's important. Although some obviously will never get it. Just think how many idiots think it's better to piss in a crack instead of on a face where it dries out / get's washed off.
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