the mountain yellow-legged bull

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Ken M

Mountain climber

Los Angeles, Ca

Apr 19, 2017 - 05:42pm PT

this issue is scientifically quite complex and i don't think that the science itself has evolved into much sophistication. but, as usual, scientists think they know it all and it seems here they're crossing the line into dictation of policy, not merely recommendation.

Tony, I'm afraid that you have fallen for the same thing of which you accuse others.

You state thing with certainty, although you do not support your statements.

Who (give a specific example and name) is this scientist which is dictating policy, instead of making recommendations? You've stated the "fact", so you must know the specifics to make such a statement.

On the other hand:

condors are magnificant and i hope they stay "saved". but the dominant large animal is now the cow, and farmers and ranchers devote their lives to insuring that they seldom become carrion. THAT'S where changes have to take place if you want biodiversity.

is quite insightful, as loss of habitat is what most species find challenging.

Tony Bird

climber

Northridge, CA

Topic Author's Reply - Apr 20, 2017 - 10:19am PT

when williamson was first closed, i was told there were five "holdout" locations in southern california mountain streams. they were supposedly gone from down on mt. palomar. as i remember (i do have to go on an admittedly aging memory on a lot of this, but part of the reason for posting on a forum is that you get corrected--and often over-corrected) williamson was the only location in the san gabriels. i think there were a couple in the san bernardinos and someone mentioned lake fulmer, on the way to idyllwild. now it seems they've found another in the san gabriels. have they been all the way down devils slide and into the upper san gabriel river drainages? how about that tiny riparian nook off the echo mountain trail? as ksolem said, there are LOTS of nooks and crannies, and many of them stay wet.

my big beef here, however, is how the scientists-in-charge sit on their precious information. you have to pull teeth to get it out of them, as though i might be some kind of frog ax-murderer who will go out and whackafrog every place i can. THAT'S the problem with science in every issue like this one.

a big aspect of the MYLF is how it survives drought. can any of you address that? i think little rock creek is a pretty pathetic trout fishing destination these days. i think it gets dry enough to burn out all trout and pollywogs, but we've got a wet (actually, more historically "normal" than "wet") year this year and that will change.

i went to horse flats sometime before the last drought cycle. it was early and for the first time in years i saw water in the little creek that flows through there. and in one of the stagnant pools: tadpoles.

i'm not attacking any of the scientists who post here personally, and ed's access to so much scholarship has always been welcome, though i've seldom waded through very much of it. i tend to birddog what i'm interested in, and i did that on the williamson issue and i did not like the way people kept hedging on it.

pud

climber

Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia

Apr 20, 2017 - 01:45pm PT

If you would like to throw some 'bows over your representation of our recreational group then maybe you will consider just what it is that is making you so angry. surely you don't want to punch me over some frogs that got your crag shut down

Dude,

Nothing I read here ever makes me angry. Laugh, smile, roll my eyes maybe, but never angry. I simply stated that some of the more rude and vulgar folks on this thread would likely be much more polite in person.

I don't ever recall climbers talking to each other the way the folks do here. I am sure I would not associate with a group that did.
Lately, the 'newer' folks to this site have me wondering why I come here and I think perhaps that may be a sign that it is time for me to leave.

kingtut is likely a mild mannered student that likes to pretend.

That's ok, as long as he realizes that in reality, there are consequences when one chooses to insult others.

thebravecowboy

climber

The Good Places

Apr 20, 2017 - 02:52pm PT

frogs > climbers

pud

climber

Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia

Apr 20, 2017 - 02:58pm PT

Tut,
You're the rude thug.

You talk sh#t all day knowing you'll never have to deal with the consequences because you are safe behind a keyboard.

It's ok, time wounds all heels.

Ken M

Mountain climber

Los Angeles, Ca

Apr 20, 2017 - 03:50pm PT

my big beef here, however, is how the scientists-in-charge sit on their precious information. you have to pull teeth to get it out of them, as though i might be some kind of frog ax-murderer who will go out and whackafrog every place i can. THAT'S the problem with science in every issue like this one.

You have to realize, which you may not, that in many of the forums I've read on this and similar subjects, that is exactly what climbers have suggested might be the best strategy: kill all the frogs. THAT'S a problem in every issue like this one.

pud

climber

Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia

Apr 20, 2017 - 04:34pm PT

I never threatened violence Kingtut. A lying POS like yourself may say that, but cannot prove it.

Kingtut obvioulsey has an inferiority complex and begs for attention the only way he knows how.
To pretend to be something he is not.