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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 13, 2017 - 12:14pm PT
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What the law says and the degree to which people are held accountable to it are two entirely different things. Prior to my divorce and court experiences related to that, I had a very naive view of the legal system- thinking of lawyers and judges somewhat like software developers, using laws written in English language as the technical standard and then acting in strict accordance with it to develop a solution that embodies the standard. That is pretty far from what happens. All the legal framework is used as a veneer to spread legitimacy on top of whatever dirty and illogical human negotiations and power struggles that shape the real outcome.
Might does make right in our world.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Jul 13, 2017 - 12:36pm PT
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be serious MB, at some point you just have to face reality.
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Jul 13, 2017 - 12:57pm PT
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The tragicomedy of America today:
In America everybody has something to sell. And because everybody has something to sell, people are slowly being turned into liars and thieves, blind to the fact that they are liars and thieves.
And in a world where everybody is a thief, the only sinner is the one being put in jail. And because the juridical systems in praxis is based on the principle that rich liars and thieves who are caught are being let free because they have money to hire/buy the most skilled liars among the lawyers, only poor people are being put in jail. And the richest liars and thieves are getting part of their profit from owning the prisons.
The most skilled liar and thief among the rich may even be chosen to president as in the present state of America. And still, or maybe just because of this, being admired by his followers...
And the rest of the world is following in the footsteps of America...
The tragicomedy of the world...
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Jul 13, 2017 - 01:03pm PT
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All the legal framework is used as a veneer to spread legitimacy on top of whatever dirty and illogical human negotiations and power struggles that shape the real outcome.
Well said....
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jul 13, 2017 - 01:11pm PT
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Marlow pretty well nails it.
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WBraun
climber
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Jul 13, 2017 - 01:46pm PT
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CIA is one of the most criminal intel agencies in the US govt.
And you SomebodyAnybody, are one of the most brainwashed idiots in America just like the rest of you main loon media whores in this thread .........
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Jul 13, 2017 - 02:21pm PT
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"Only the guy tuned to 732hz on his tinfoil hat from the SAR cache, turning wrenches on cop cars knows the real truth. A step-n-fetchit boy for the man, holed up in a tourist trap for 30 years, reduced to ranting bullshit on the internet between smoke breaks. It's just sad, bro."
Classic...the hypocrisy is amazing with the stooopid one.
Of all people to be dissing the government is the one who has been stealing/sucking on their tit for the last 35 years.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jul 13, 2017 - 03:37pm PT
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Fact. Not opinion.
No. Pure opinion.
"Collusion" implies intent (unlike the laws Hillary broke). You have not demonstrated fraudulent or illegal intent. A campaign salivating at the thought of getting dirt on an opponent is HOW IT'S DONE, not illegal and not necessarily with any illegal intent. PROVE intent, or quit opining "collusion."
... we have an email that included trumps top three campaign officials, eager to meet with a Russian attorney...
Yup. "Eager" does not imply illegal, fraudulent, or espionage in fact or in intent. More opinion on your part.
... with government connections...
Irrelevant, unless you can DEMONSTRATE that actual government secrets were exchanged or intended to be exchanged. Just "knowing somebody" or even "being related" to "somebody in the government" does not imply either. More speculation on your part.
... to get dirt...
Yeah, that's the POINT of a campaign trying to undermine an opponent. It's the nature of politics! Nothing special to see here.
... (presumably illegally gotten dirt) on Hillary.
WAIIIITTTTTT!!! Stop the presses!
I thought we were STRICTLY in the realm of FACT here, with NARY an opinion to be found in your STRICTLY FACTUAL assertions!
I'm SO disappointed!
You have NO, NADA, ZERO idea what the "dirt" would consist of. And IN FACT, no "dirt" was actually exchanged at any point. So WHAT it was, where "it" originated, and whether or (presumably) not it was illegal in ANY way is entirely UNKNOWN.
You get that word? UNKNOWN.
YOU don't know the KEY thing that must be known to even START to prop up your ridiculous pile of empty assertions.
Pure fact, huh?
Actually: PURE speculation and conjecture.
Yeah, I don't think we're going to indict over the evidence that YOU have, nor will people like me lose a moment's sleep over "it".
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 13, 2017 - 05:16pm PT
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Lol, ok. I don't have time right now to respond to your nonsense or excuses for these as#@&%es.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Jul 13, 2017 - 05:49pm PT
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August how much obstruction can be done...
As for ACA i say Kill it any way you can. Working people cannot afford it..the individual market is already dead. Repeal so all the regulations in it can be ripped up. Start over.
Sure. Republicans wrote a health care bill in secret that left even most Republican senators in the dark until the day they had to release it.
It removes hundred of billion of dollars of Federal spending on health care and over a period of time guts Medicaid.
You are going to get as many democratic votes for that as Obamacare got from Republicans. Duh.
Working people can't afford it so we remove hundreds of billions in Federal spending to help them out. And instead, we will have them go without insurance or give them the option of insurance-light that won't cover pre-existing conditions and/or when they actually get sick.
LOL
If only Orwell could have lived to see the modern day Republican party.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Jul 13, 2017 - 05:53pm PT
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Sure Don, sure.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jul 13, 2017 - 05:58pm PT
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#baldfacedliarrussianstooge
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jul 13, 2017 - 06:06pm PT
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(unlike the laws Hillary broke)
I'm no fan of the Clintons, but I wonder exactly what laws she broke? The Republicans have spent over 200,000,000 taxpayer dollars investigating the Clinton's. Where's the beef?
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jul 13, 2017 - 06:28pm PT
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Sure. Republicans wrote a health care bill in secret that left even most Republican senators in the dark until the day they had to release it.
Oh, you mean EXACTLY like the Dems that produced Obumblecare? You mean, like so opaque that it had to be shrouded in LIES that were known to be lies at the time they were uttered, like Obamacare? You mean, "We have to pass this so that we can find out what's in it?" You mean, like THAT sort of "in secret"?
Oh, wait, what the Repubs have been doing doesn't hold a CANDLE to how the Dems handled Obumblecare. So far, it's looking flat-out TRANSPARENT compared to how the Dems foisted off Obumblecare on us!
But, you know, just spread the hypocrisy around. Kumbaya. We'll just all hold hands and drink the Kool-Aid.
It removes hundred of billion of dollars of Federal spending on health care and over a period of time guts Medicaid.
Sounds GREAT to me. The feds have NO business IN this business in the first place! Put it back in States' hands, where it belongs and quit spending money we do not have!
You are going to get as many democratic votes for that as Obamacare got from Republicans. Duh.
Perfect! Tit for tat. You guys are just frothy because now the Repubs are contemplating screwing you in the SAME way you screwed them.
Working people can't afford it so we remove hundreds of billions in Federal spending to help them out.
Earth to, uhhh... whatever you are. WORKING people are the VERY ones totally screwed by the NEW TAX that Obama claimed would NEVER be levied on the working class. Remember? Obumblecare passed SCOTUS scrutiny (if that's what it was) BECAUSE it was a NEW TAX.
So, let me get your "logic" straight. "Working people can't afford to have this NEW TAX removed from them, because repealing Obumblecare would REMOVE the NEW TAX that was 'hundreds of billions in Federal spending to help them out.'"
I don't get it. How does REMOVING a massive TAX somehow COST the working class hundreds of billions of dollars? How did Obumblecare PAY for the millions of "poor" it gave "insurance" to, when the "poor" supposedly couldn't afford insurance?
Ahh... I see the problem: Pronoun trouble. You've got the "them" all confused across contexts.
You see, the real "them" IS the "working class" that got SCREWED OVER by Obumblecare, SO THAT the "poor" could get FREE MONEY.
You see (let me draw close to you, speaking in low tones as if telling a closely-guarded secret), the way it worked was that the vast MIDDLE class (the actual workers of this nation) had to cough up MORE money (much more) than ever before in the form of what was OFFICIALLY cited as a NEW TAX (remember how that worked?). THAT money was then redistributed to the "poor" so they they could "afford" their newly-minted "health insurance."
Now, once "they" (that's the ACTUAL working class) got TAXED (not had money given TO them) in order to give "them" (that's the "poor," remember) money that they did NOT earn, THAT is how the "magic" happened.
You understand now? I know. It's confusing, which is probably how you got the pronouns confused in the first place. But just remember that Obumblecare had to GENERATE money for health-insurance that IT didn't have and that "they" (that's the "poor" this time) didn't have. So, MOST people (the working class) were forced to cough up massive amounts of money (NOT have billions given TO them) to pay for the tiny minority. THAT'S how the "magic" happened. Got it now?
Except that the "magic" never materialized, because:
1) The "poor" quickly realized that they still had to pay SOMETHING (that they had not paid before) for a bill of goods that was NOT what was promised. Namely: Obumblecare handed them what is really "catastrophic insurance" that is not usable until a gigantic deductible is paid first. But, you know, being "poor" and all, "they" (that's the "poor" again) couldn't AFFORD (despite the first word of the title of the cluster-fornication) the "insurance" (that really wasn't) that they were forced to pay for (when they hadn't been paying for healthcare before), meaning that THEY (that's the "poor" again) were getting almost as screwed as "them" (that's the working class that were paying the most for this cluster-fornication, while getting the least in return for the NEW TAX).
Whew!
2) People have FINALLY (although this was OBVIOUS from the outset) tumbled to the FACT that the ONLY entities that really benefited from this cluster-fornication were the INSURANCE COMPANIES (who lobbied hardest for it to pass).
3) People have FINALLY (although this was OBVIOUS from the outset) tumbled to the fact that the "ACA" was NEVER "affordable," NEVER "care," and NEVER "acting" on behalf of ANY of the American people.
4) The WORKING PEOPLE in this nation put the Repubs in office TO repeal this cluster-fornication (which the lame Repubs can't seem to manage to do, now that they have the SAME power the Dems had when the Dems CRAMMED this cluster-fornication down "our" (that's EVERYBODY's) throats)!
And instead, we will have them go without insurance or give them the option of insurance-light that won't cover pre-existing conditions and/or when they actually get sick.
Oh, boo-hoo. They were NEVER "without insurance." Every state has some form of backstop for the WORTHY poor, and every general hospital is REQUIRED to provide medical care entirely without regard to "ability to pay."
You libs are always crying about the TINY minority not having exactly the same OUTCOME in life as "everybody else," AS IF you have ANY actual power to guarantee parity of OUTCOME!
You CAN'T, no matter how much money you throw at it. No matter how hard you try to mastermind an equal-OUTCOME society, you cannot manage it. There is never enough money. ALL you accomplish is screwing the vast majority, and, after all is said and done, you STILL don't have parity of OUTCOME.
REPEAL the entire cluster-fornication, go back to what we had before, and THEN rethink (if there's really even the need to do so). Give the STATES back the right to take care of their own citizens how they see fit. Some States will always be better off than others, just as some people will always be better off than others.
You want reform? Then, let's get serious about REAL reforms, which I've talked about before. Obumblecare was NO reform and now makes genuine reform even harder!
But trying to handle this at the federal level ONLY ensures lowest-common-denominator outcomes, while screwing the maximum number of people.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jul 13, 2017 - 06:30pm PT
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I wonder exactly what laws she broke
How about: Virtually every records-keeping law we have a law for.
Regarding spending, I wonder how much the Dems and the left-media (in other words, pretty much "the media") have spent on the "mostly bullsh|t" "Russian connection" story.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jul 13, 2017 - 06:45pm PT
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How about: Virtually every records-keeping law we have a law for.
Where are the indictments? After spending $200,000,000 shouldn't there be at least one indictment?
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Jul 13, 2017 - 06:52pm PT
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And don't forget the murder of Vince Foster...LMAO...
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jul 13, 2017 - 07:08pm PT
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The guy who doesn't know anything is back commenting on everything.
Is there a big line at he outhouse?
It's not hard to build one, dude, do you even have a job?
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jul 13, 2017 - 07:13pm PT
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Where are the indictments? After spending $200,000,000 shouldn't there be at least one indictment?
I'm with you. There should have been! More than one.
But, you know how our system works. Comey carefully dances around the verbiage, saying "extremely careless," when he needed to avoid the equivalent phrase (the one actually in the text of the most relevant law): "Gross negligence."
And the far-left, DNC-pocketed, Obama-appointed Lynch isn't gonna indict, no matter what the FBI says. So, Comey chooses instead to NOT fall on his own sword (fat lot of good that ultimately did him, lol).
You know. The games.
Meanwhile, I see a whole lot of "mostly bulls|t" floated as FACT around here, with nary an indictment in sight.
Regarding citing the actual statutes, I did that repeatedly on other threads. No avail. Just my "opinion" on what those "mean." So, you know, what's good for the goose is good for the gander.
You guys just can't take your own medicine on ANY front once the tables of power turn on ya.
Pretty funny, really.
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