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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Also, for the record, I am not in favor of access at the expense of an endangered species. I like to think that climbers identify with some of the creatures that make a home of the places we frequent. Having said that, I don't believe climbers should be singled out as the sole activity that should be regulated when such issues arise.
I would hope that most of us would feel that way. That having been said, FD, in this particular case, climbing was NOT singled out. The Pacific Crest National Scenic Trail was re-routed as a result of this, at the cost of a considerable effort on the part of a number of organizations and people. Due to my trailwork activities, and participation as an organizer of the former Pacific Crest Trail Day Zero Kick Off (PCTDZKO), I had more of a "front row seat" in all of the efforts involved in re-routing the thousands of hikers involved in this yearly trek.
We climbers were not alone.
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i-b-goB
Social climber
Wise Acres
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FREE WILLY!
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Ken,
that is still the exact plan the ANF proposed several years ago. There are many unreasonable parts to it. In fact there is no sign of any of our suggestions on how to make it reasonable.
All of this was discussed in previous threads on this and other forums. http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2463431&msg=2463825#msg2463825
1. An absolute 10m closure from the stream is arbitrary. In general all the climbs near the stream will be closed which is likely needed for the frogs. However, even if 10m is a good nominal number, there is one brief 20 foot traverse on a bare rock slab where climbers would need to pass slightly closer to the stream in order to access areas such as Freezer Burn, Ego Buttress, and Sick Wall (which are far more than 10m from the stream).
2. The need for a permit system has not been demonstrated. The ANF should begin with a less drastic system before jumping to this level of restriction. In fact they are require to take other such steps by law. There is parking available for far more than 30 cars. This indicates how arbitrary the proposal is, when the ANF attempts to create false evidence.
3. A permit system is unwieldy, onerous, and unworkable.
4. The open season for the entire crag will be Aug 1 to Nov 15. The August 1 date revolves around the extremist thinking that the entire crag needs to be closed for a falcon nest. This is a line of obsolete thinking that dates to the period 20 years ago when the falcons were actually endangered. The opposite case is now true, falcon populations are very healthy, and they tolerate humans as close as 50 yards at this crag. A more reasonable restriction we proposed is to only close those walls near the falcon nest be March-July 31. Everything to the right of that is far enough from the falcons.
5. The following rule demonstrates how unreasonable this plan is, with the ANF having bought into the most extremist views: "At least one Forest Service site manager with citation authorization would be onsite each day that the Visitor Use Permit Area is open." No other small crag in America has such a rule. The ANF has some concerns that some climbers won't follow the rules, but they could have written this proposal to be open to less restrictions in the future once it is demonstrated that the area is adequately protected.
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jeff constine
Trad climber
Ao Namao
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All the Wrightwood locals climb there all the time. no posted sign saying closed to climbing. Poachers dream.
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Williamson rock was where my first bolted 5.11 onsight in 1996!
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Close Angeles Crest Highway from Red Box to Big Pines. Then open Williamson Rock.
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Jan 13, 2017 - 12:16pm PT
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Willy this morning
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Jan 13, 2017 - 03:34pm PT
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Sweet.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Jan 13, 2017 - 09:07pm PT
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The ANF has to sign a new order for closure ever year because the closure is still considered "temporary".
These orders expire December 31st of each year.
Last year they didn't renew it until January 17th.
I spoke with the ranger handling the WR issue today. He said they haven't signed the order yet but weren't too concerned as WR is in deep snow.
Technically, it is currently legal to climb tbere.
From Batrock's pic, it looks like a couple of routes might be doable ;)
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Jan 13, 2017 - 10:02pm PT
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Ooo, break out the ice gear.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Jan 14, 2017 - 09:24am PT
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C'mon mate, It's a fine day for a climb!
William F. Murray
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psykokid
Mountain climber
Pasadena
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I hope some managed to get out there and get some laps in on the rock after the snow melted during the closure lapse. Looks like it lapsed from the start of the year until the new order was issued on March, 24. Looking at the new order it's been put in effect until December 31, 2018 which is new. It used to be an annual thing they would renew at the start of every year.
Link to current closure order: https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/fseprd536828.pdf
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Not to worry, Brady and the Access Fund are all over it.
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Its not just the CBD that sued to close Willy, the Sierra Club did also. Aren't some of you Willy climbers SC members?? Cant you push to get there help to come to a compromise?
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other
Trad climber
San Diego CA USA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 30, 2017 - 09:49pm PT
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Curt and rick A, Are you close to lawyers or where did you get your info that a suit would do nothing to reopen Williamson? What has been tried for fifteen years has done nothing. What will be tried for another fifteen years might also do nothing or maybe allow in a handful of people for a month per year. So a suit that does nothing is a tactic that might work. Doesn't af have a lawyer? The alternative is allowing the fanatics to close more areas. ACSD has demonstrated that doing trash cleanups and nagging about bird nests doesn't restore access or pacify extremist groups. IMBA is a toothless , scared (lack of ) advocacy group. Members are leaving. Is that what af aspires to be?
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other
Trad climber
San Diego CA USA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 30, 2017 - 11:30pm PT
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Ken m are you a condescending prick in person or just online?
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