Williamson Rock California

Willy isn't the greatest but it's arguably the best summertime crag in Southern California.

Has the Access Fund or anyone else got off their ass to restore access to Williamson Rock near LA CA?

There's plenty of places to climb. The frogs are running out of places to live.

Williamson Rock was Southern California’s premier summer sport climbing destination until it was closed in 2005 to protect the endangered Mountain Yellow-Legged Frog (MYLF). The Angeles National Forest restricted access to Williamson as a result of successful lawsuits brought by the Center for Biological Diversity and other conservation organizations. Williamson Rock remains closed to climbing, but the Access Fund and local climbing advocates remain focused on reopening this area. Incremental progress was made in the summer of 2014 when the US Forest Service initiated a process for evaluating alternatives for opening the climbing area. After initial project scoping, the Forest Service postponed the project citing lack of funding. In the spring of 2016 the Forest Service set aside $250,000 dollars to complete the environmental review and is hopeful to start the assessment in 2017. Access Fund is awaiting a management planning decision that may consider limited climbing. The final planning decision could take several more years due to the environmental review process that still needs to be conducted.

Thats all I have ever hear from the AF, "we are working on it, join the AF and it will help"
I joined and donated and tried to get more detailed info and all I ever get is "hey, thanks for the interest, we are working on it.

...In the spring of 2016 the Forest Service set aside $250,000 dollars to complete the environmental review and is hopeful to start the assessment in 2017. Access Fund is awaiting a management planning decision that may consider limited climbing. The final planning decision could take several more years due to the environmental review process that still needs to be conducted...

A lawsuit at this point would do absolutely nothing.

I've come to think most every canyon in the state has been visited by some prospector at least once.

I've flown over most of the San Gabriels and they are gnarly. Surely some
prospectors have sampled all the creeks but if there wasn't serious color
then a lot of them have not seen many human footfalls. If there are frogs
at Williamson then there are plenty more up there where the sun don't shine
and pansy-assed grad students won't go.

deciding that a roadside creek is a study area is BS.

Access fund is still "working on it"

Olive branch- fer real

Hint, it's not for climbers

It's clear from his response that the AF hasn't been making any calls to the ANF anytime recently.

So at this point, besides sending $ to access fund what else can we do, if anything?

The Tunnels are fun but they are no Willy.

the problem is, as has been shown time and again, that they cannot coexist... "recreationists," aka people, will adversely affect the frogs.

what's the tradeoff? extinguishing the rare frog population vs. having the experience of climbing on a so-so cliff destination...

It's not about "stepping" on a frog.

I fail to see an equally biased point of view from the biologists who recommended the closures.

was the area you were climbing in posted closed?

So even if you would posit the very cynical (and unsupported) assertion that the tens of CBD biologists are compelled to seek cases in order to survive, they are extremely good at finding successful cases, which also require the judiciary to agree... they seem to be making compelling arguments.

This means, of course, the defendants are found in violation. Because of our (the USA) foundational principle of the "rule of law" why would you have it any other way?

the laws are not written to prohibit

Jan 1, 2017 - 08:47am PT
Really excellent points, Warbler. I've wondered, too, about raptor closures generally when I know that peregrines do well in urban environments with all kinds of noise and chaos around. I guess fat pigeons make good eating!

BAd

I dunno if it's because your wife is an environmental biologist, if I have her credential right, but I don't see climbing as being a privilege any more than hiking, or fishing or camping is when we're talking about public land, like Yosemite, but you continually state that you do.

If the CBD discovered an endangered ant on El Cap is there any doubt that they would try to
get climbing stopped on it? Then we'd hear Doc Ed sing a different tune, wouldn't we? ;-)

"Your argument seems to revolve around
-few people are offended by bolts---so they don't matter."

True

I'm curious Ken, how often do you do new routes, how much sport climbing do you do, and how much bolting have you done? The answers to these questions are relevant to the understanding you have of the issues here.

My point was that climbing is no more of a "privilege" than any other outdoor activity. I'd like to know why it is if you disagree. The other point is that public land is just that, public, and the public should have considerable freedom to enjoy it as they like. Of course some regulation is needed, but it should be balanced with user needs.

Conservation issues trump mere recreation desires unless a carefull plan a la perrigrene falcons on el cap or the chief can be crafted.

You need a permit to camp in a wilderness area, not to day hike in one. You don't need a permit to day hike anywhere else in any National or State Park that I'm aware of, there are probably exceptions, but they're unusual enough to be irelevant.

Are you suggesting the vast majority of visitors to Yosemite are offended by bolts? Not just by the concept of bolting when asked about it, but actually directly offended by seeing them whilst recreating when they visit?

I can confidently say that very very few people who don't climb have ever seen the hundreds of bolts I've placed in Yosemite. My routes tend to be in out of the way places.

It would be interesting to know how many complaints the NPS gets in Yosemite from visitors who see bolts, are offended, and otherwise don't have any kind of agenda against bolting. My guess is that it's extremely rare.

I'd respect your opinions more if you prove me wrong w facts rather than conjecture. I've never heard that the vast majority of visitors want climbers banned because of bolting. Have you? If so, who told you that?

"... but the prison rules should not be decided by the prisoners, to use an analogy."

Don't get that analogy, Ken. Are you implying that climbers are somehow deviant or criminal? Your description of climbers as dirtbags in your opening quote is perhaps telling. Maybe you see only climbers who place bolts as "dirtbags"? I dunno, it's your choice of words.

Human rights should be decided by humans. Climbers have a right to climb if it does no significant harm to the environment. I don't see it as a privilege any more than a walk in a park is a privilege. That's all I'm saying.

My climbing was focused there once, but things were way different 45 years ago. Now basically all the routes I do are on BLM and USFS land in San Diego County. Basically no rules, never any other climbers, no hype, no drama, no media.

Ken M -- "You need a permit to BASE jump in Yosemite, not to climb."

no, you don't seem really patient with reading...

Also, for the record, I am not in favor of access at the expense of an endangered species.

I like to think that climbers identify with some of the creatures that make a home of the places we frequent.

Also, for the record, I am not in favor of access at the expense of an endangered species. I like to think that climbers identify with some of the creatures that make a home of the places we frequent. Having said that, I don't believe climbers should be singled out as the sole activity that should be regulated when such issues arise.

C'mon mate, It's a fine day for a climb!