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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Dec 14, 2016 - 08:47pm PT
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it happened because of Russian hacking and leaks about emails hat had nothing to do with anything.
it happened because of closet bigotry and sexism. it is alive and well in america.
it happened because there is no intelligence test for voters. even cragman can vote.
it happened because of extreme ignorance and disregard. anyone pretending to be christian who voted for trump is a hypocrite, or wants to see their wifes pussy grabbed by a rich obnoxious dude. in other words, perverts. there are no excuses for this behavior.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Dec 14, 2016 - 09:15pm PT
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Just adding to this productive thread.
Thank you.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Dec 14, 2016 - 09:21pm PT
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Anyone who voted for Hillary, all while knowing that she promised little to overhaul the f'ed up financial system and power of the conglomerates, is just as foolish as those who voted for Trump. Whether democrat or repub, you would still have been voting for the same system, the only real variable being the token ways they differentiate from each other.
The problem with this assessment is the concept that we live in a hellhole.
Try Aleppo.
I think that we live in a rather amazing country, with a high standard of living for most, improving conditions for the underpriviledged, and tremendous potential for the future.
I don't think voting for maintaining that was foolish or silly. No one thinks the situation is perfect, but do we really need a revolution-level event, or simple course correction over time?
Obviously, revolution won out. Watch out, revolutions are unpredictable.
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nah000
climber
no/w/here
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Dec 14, 2016 - 09:39pm PT
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^^^^
you do live in an amazing country...
unfortunately your country has been built in part on a foundation of aleppos...
and trump a revolution?
seriously?
trump is some of the u.s.' foundation taken to its [near] final conclusion...
because here is one of the primary problems with the underpinning of the u.s.' declaration of independence:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men [deemed citizens] are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
until the u.s. addresses the "deemed citizens" portion that constitutes the in actuality practice of its evolution... it is just another empire.
a very successful empire...
but nonetheless, neither entirely a beacon of freedom nor entirely an example of hope...
but rather...
just another empire.
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nah000
climber
no/w/here
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Dec 14, 2016 - 09:57pm PT
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^^^^
in all honesty: no idea what your point is...
here's why:
The U.S. has the citizens (and their families) who can vote for politicians
agreed. many democratic countries vote for their politicians: what's your point?
The U.S. has migrants who can either net-cost or enrichen the country
agreed. except that it's not just migrants who enrichen the u.s. is one of my points: ie. what's your point?
And the U.S. has the countries and conglomerates who owe it money, and those who it owes money to.
the u.s. at this point effectively defines what money is: again, what's your point?
apologies if i wasn't clear on what mine was.
let me know if you want to explain in clear language what yours is...
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nah000
climber
no/w/here
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Dec 14, 2016 - 10:18pm PT
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^^^^
i think i understand what you are saying now...
and i think we are in agreement...
so i'm not sure why you're arguing with me and seemingly implying that i said things i didn't
The constitution is somewhat irrelevant to the question of who owns the U.S., in reality. It's not just the citizens. where did i state or imply the opposite of this?
A million people essentially direct what the other 7 billion do. U.S. Citizens are affected by that. The U.S. constitution does not control those million people as much as some wish it to.
uhhhh... yeah. that was the point of my using the words "in actuality" rather than "as worded" regarding the constitution...
you seem to be mostly looking for an argument tonight.
while i could be wrong, it's time to me for crash... so if i am wrong my apologies and have a good one.
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nah000
climber
no/w/here
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Dec 15, 2016 - 07:12am PT
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Robert L:
thanks for that... am getting a better understanding of your points... and am learning and being challenged... so, thanks.
re: is the u.s. an empire? now that i believe i understand better, i do agree with your point. i am getting a little histrionic by using empire without a modifier regarding the u.s... that said, it certainly has liked to flirt with empire like behaviour and i think it is closer to an outright empire than we like to admit.
re: calling politicians fascist? i dunno... just because someone is democratically elected, if it quacks and walks like a duck, i think we should be direct in calling something by its name. that said i've attempted not to call trump an outright fascist and have attempted to use modifiers because, to call him that without a modifier, is an insult to outright systems of fascism [which i agree the u.s. is not at this point]... but we need to tread intentionally as if that cabinet that trump is proposing is not seen for what it must be seen as [a further entrenching of authoritarian based decision making - rather than representative, principly, scientifically, and/or collective experience based ones] then we continue to ignore, at our peril, what trump is actually doing [in the same fashion that our ignoring of what he was actually doing led him to become president...]
while bannon ain't goebbels and none of pomeo, mad dog mattis, nor flynn are himmler....
they also aren't people that we [republicans included] should all give power without a deep sense of questioning and tight rein of oversight...
and that requires engaged checks and balances, that ultimately rest with we, the people,
whether we are american or not...
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Dec 15, 2016 - 07:23am PT
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whether we are american or not...
Can you expound on that? Not sure I understand the sentiment.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Dec 15, 2016 - 07:42am PT
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Fascism is a behavior
Illiteracy is a behavior.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Dec 15, 2016 - 07:42am PT
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Its time for new words, that apply and work in this century, for our country?
Progressives
Statists (which could represent a more broad definition than simply socialist and could encompass boths sides of the political spectrum in the US)
Libertarians (or Limited Government Advocates if you're not into the whole brevity thing)
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Larry Nelson
Social climber
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Dec 15, 2016 - 07:47am PT
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Maybe aliens hacked the election...you never know, heh.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Edit: Good point by Dingus on needing new words or definitions.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Dec 15, 2016 - 07:59am PT
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"For the first time in history a White Male Billionaire will be moving into public housing vacated by a Black Family."
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Dec 15, 2016 - 08:09am PT
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Revolution...? The trump worshippers jump, holler and wave their ju ju spears pretending that Trump will magically whipe away the evil that Darth Obama has wrought on the American landscape for the past 8 years...Trump winning was a fluke ...What were Trump's plans for the revolution..? They changed day to day and i'd bet most Trump voters to this day would have to google his policy proposals to answer that question...Trumps sole campaign strategy was to whip his supporters into a frenzy of hatred against the GOP contenders , Hillary , Muslims , and Illegal aliens...His campaign was short on solutions and long on hate...trump losing by 2 million votes is not a revolution...it's called winning by default...Losing by 2 million votes means that the majority of Americans' won't be held hostage by Trumps idea of what makes America great nor will it give him the mandates to douse the EPA or carry out any of his other dangerous ideas..
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Norton
Social climber
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Dec 15, 2016 - 08:51am PT
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“For the last month I decided not to do interviews, because they give interviews and they chop up your sentences and cut them short,” he said. “You will have this beautiful flowing sentence where the back of the sentence reverts to the front and they cut the back of the sentence off, and I say I never said that. So, I said, you know what, I am not going to deal with them. They are very dishonest people, I said.”
Our 10 year old President Elect
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dirtbag
climber
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Dec 15, 2016 - 09:31am PT
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Trump is setting the table for unprecedented corruption in the White House. It's so blatant. From conservative blogger Jennifer Rubin:
President-elect Donald Trump is peddling the notion that he can let his sons run his businesses but make no “new” deals after he is inaugurated. On Wednesday, he held a meeting of tech giant chief executives in which three of his adult children and his son-in-law participated.
Ethics experts were flabbergasted. “Donald Trump’s children aren’t just family, they are tasked with running his business completely separate from his running the government. What we’ve seen so far is not an administration avoiding the appearance of conflicts of interest but one actively courting it,” Jordan Libowitz of Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington. He continued, “The president-elect of the United States just brought in the heads of many of America’s largest companies to meet with him and the executives of his personal business. He is relying on the senior leadership of his business to help him pick Cabinet officials.” Libowitz added, “There is no explicable reason for his children to be so involved with the running of the government if their focus on the health of Trump’s business interests is what is supposed to allow him to avoid conflicts.” He reiterated what virtually every ethics expert has said: “If he is serious about a separation of government and personal business, he needs to sell the business outside of his family and place the assets in a blind trust.”
Trump seems to be intentionally and publicly blurring the line between his own finances and government business. “The first principle of avoiding corruption and illegality and wrongdoing is to maintain bright lines,” ethics expert Norman Eisen of the Brookings Institution told me in a phone interview. “His mixing of family business with the business of the U.S. is unprecedented.” He observed, “This is what we see in oligarchies, like with China’s princelings. We don’t expect princelings to be roaming the halls of the White House.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2016/12/15/trump-now-inviting-corruption/?utm_term=.99f426b281aa
Where is the outrage from those who ceaselessly bashed "crooked" hillary?
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Norton
Social climber
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Dec 15, 2016 - 09:36am PT
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"I am highly educated. I know words. I know the best words."
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