Little boys no longer belong in politics/cowards steer clear

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Captain...or Skully

climber

Boise, ID

Oct 16, 2016 - 10:37am PT

Word.

Jaybro

Social climber

Wolf City, Wyoming

Oct 16, 2016 - 10:56am PT

Are you forgetting about all the women who have worked their way up through Trump Corp and applaud him, for legit performance on the job? No let's forget that.

Steve, do you have a list of those women? I'm sure there could be some,,,,

WBraun

climber

Oct 16, 2016 - 11:01am PT

America is the most violent country on the planet.

Then you lip service people to not be violent to animals and people all while slaughtering everything in sight.

The hypocrisy is astronomical.

Typical for this forum ......

Crimpergirl

Sport climber

Boulder, Colorado!

Oct 16, 2016 - 11:07am PT

Werner - if you are referring to me personally in terms of lip service and hypocrisy, please note that I have never slaughtered an animal. I type this as I am eating my tofu dog for lunch.

If you are speaking to the forum more generally, then I am in agreement and am saddened that people feel slaughtering animals (and other awful ways of treating animals including puppy mills and similar set ups) is somehow okay. It's pretty depressing too.

EdwardT

Trad climber

Retired

Oct 16, 2016 - 11:09am PT

Typical Right Wing behavior, support the accuser, victimize the victim.
They do it every time: George Zimmerman is rich from donations from right wingers after he killed Trayvon.

^More DerF lies???^

rbord

Boulder climber

atlanta

Oct 16, 2016 - 11:10am PT

The problem is this forum. If you go beyond the confines of this forum, out into the real world, where real humans are acting the way humans really do, then you'd see that everything is cool.

The problem with humans (to us) is always other people. The question (we believe) is just which other people.

John M

climber

Oct 16, 2016 - 11:15am PT

Werner,

Not everyone has the same consciousness. While I agree that sometimes to get through someones walls, you have to go at them hard. I don't find the constant browbeating that you do to be effective.

People aren't ready to see that killing animals for food is a form of violence. So they have to start somewhere. Everything has steps. Even if one is going to eat animals, how they treat those animals before they eat them counts. Do you cram them in cages and not let them move about at all, like humans did with cows for veal? Or do you at least treat them respectfully during their life, knowing that in the end you are still going to slaughter them to eat them. There is a difference. So you have to take people where they are.

I still eat meat by the way. My teacher says that to some extent it is acceptable because of the density of the world and the need for denser food to sustain our current form of body. can one overcome that? certainly. As you have proven. but it is not yet true for everyone.

so their is a difference in the violence required to slaughter an animal for food, and the violence humans do to each other out of anger or hatred or arrogance. Just as their is a difference between the violence someone does to defend another, and the violence one does out of hatred.

You yourself have defended the warrior. So you do know that there is a difference.

c wilmot

climber

Oct 16, 2016 - 11:21am PT

Everyone kills animals. Even vegans. Unless you live a strictly gatherer lifestyle then it's just the way it is. Oil production is terrible for animals and it's engrained into all of our lives. Ever wonder how synthetic products like nylon are produced? Bet your wearing some right now.

Crimpergirl

Sport climber

Boulder, Colorado!

Oct 16, 2016 - 11:30am PT

^ Not right now (haha), but I am no saint for sure. We all have an impact on the earth. The best we can do is to do our best to make it a positive impact. And that when we recognize that we've been having a harsh impact, to change our ways the best we can.

This is an interesting forum though. Even a post saying "don't be violent to anything" got an angry-ish response. Why is that? Aren't there some things we can all agree on? It seems not being violent is a pretty easy one to start with. We do seem to come together (mostly) when one of us dies. Why do we wait until then? People are puzzling (self included).

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Oct 16, 2016 - 11:32am PT

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Oct 16, 2016 - 11:33am PT

I have seen more and more talk about Trump being chosen by God lately. Is that a common way of thinking among his supporters?

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Oct 16, 2016 - 11:34am PT

John M

climber

Oct 16, 2016 - 11:38am PT

Even a post saying "don't be violent to anything" got an angry-ish response. Why is that? Aren't there some things we can all agree on? It seems not being violent is a pretty easy one to start with

as for agreeing on things. Werner sees eating meat as violence. Which it is in one sense. So when you said to not be violent towards even animals, he sees it as being hypocritical if one eats meat.

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Oct 16, 2016 - 11:41am PT

To what extent is birth and death violence? Bloodshed?

Crimpergirl

Sport climber

Boulder, Colorado!

Oct 16, 2016 - 11:44am PT

as for agreeing on things. Werner sees eating meat as violence. Which it is in one sense. So when you said to not be violent towards even animals, he sees it as being hypocritical if one eats meat.

Agreed John Moosie. It was not clear if it was directed at me or people in general (though it seemed to be directed to me. I could be wrong). Werner doesn't know if I eat meat or not. That is why I pointed out that I was eating a tofu dog as I responded. But as Cwilmot pointed out (I think it was him) the killing of soy to make my tofu dog came at a cost too.

John M

climber

Oct 16, 2016 - 11:45am PT

I have seen more and more talk about Trump being chosen by God lately. Is that a common way of thinking among his supporters?

About 6 months or so ago a few fairly popular/influential religious leaders said that Trump was chosen. Klimmer posted a link to one. He defended this by saying that God can even use those who do not believe in God or even are not good people.

There is scripture in the bible that basically says that all no one is in power without God's approval. Many take that to mean that God is mean because there are some evil shits in power. But what it really means is found in the scripture.. "we reap what we sow". Its karma. If we behave cruelly as a society, then we get what we deserve.

All too many people are blind to how our government works around the world. We do not always behave above board. And so we reap people like Trump.

To be fair to the religious. There have been quite a few religious leaders who have denounced Trump.

John M

climber

Oct 16, 2016 - 11:52am PT

To what extent is birth and death violence? Bloodshed?

Birth and death do have an element of violence. If you are asking for a spiritual understanding, then I would say that we were not originally created to die. the story of the garden of eden is a story about the process of losing our life. It is not meant to be taken literally. It is about turning from the guidance of God to our own ways. And thus in ignorance, or fear, or arrogance, we chose to do things that eventually lead to a body that dies.

This body is not what we as humans were originally given. Our original bodies did not even need to eat to sustain themselves as they lived on light/energy.

This is what I believe. I'm sure that there are plenty of people who disagree with me.

And I'm sure that they will now chime in.. Heh heh.. :-)

WBraun

climber

Oct 16, 2016 - 12:09pm PT

Crimpergirl

Hey sorry I didn't mean to upset you, I meant for a blanket statement.

You've always been a very good person here and don't deserve any disrespect ....