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jstan
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 30, 2016 - 10:57pm PT
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Mike:
Some what ifs. If the earth wanted to establish contact at a reasonable cost in energy we might give up on everything more than some distance away. Say 100 ly. Then we would send out a highly collimated beam and paint the sky dwelling some small time at each step. Comes down to a tradeoff between time and power. If there were any listeners out there once a signal had been detected the listeners would presumably monitor the area 24x7. The senders could periodically repeat their transmissions over the full sky. If we can't model the form of the transmission in terms of natural processes, receipt of the second signal would leave us with something to think about.
A one way communication but maybe 200 years is not that long for some. Here on earth most communications are one way. We ought to be pretty good at this.
It is hard to imagine we won't receive innumerable natural signals once we really begin to listen.
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Mike Bolte
Trad climber
Planet Earth
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Aug 30, 2016 - 11:25pm PT
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John - your suggestion is a good one and is usually referred to as "active SETI". You can google up some information about it, but it is basically as you suggest. We send a message to all of the stars within a certain distance, or all of the nearby stars with known planetary systems.
If that is what we are seeing from HD164595, the signal will be persistent and it will have a message that will be seen as a modulation at some wavelength.
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
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Aug 30, 2016 - 11:48pm PT
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in which direction is the capsule with the Chuck Berry song headed?
was that sent USPS 2 day priority mail in a medium flat rate box?
was it insured? for how much? what is the tracking number?
estimated delivery date?
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Aug 31, 2016 - 12:22am PT
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The answer to which vehicle The golden record was on is in this clip
[Click to View YouTube Video]
It was headed for the star Sirius, but as you see, was apparently diverted.
So we will see it again.
Estimated delivery date 2273
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Gunkie
Trad climber
Valles Marineris
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Aug 31, 2016 - 05:22am PT
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I think everyone is at the same conclusion that this signal is just something else...
Now note that we can work backwards from the strength of the received signal to calculate how powerful an alien transmitter anywhere near HD 164595 would have to be. There are two interesting cases:
(1) They decide to broadcast in all directions. Then the required power is 1020 watts, or 100 billion billion watts. That’s hundreds of times more energy than all the sunlight falling on Earth, and would obviously require power sources far beyond any we have.
(2) They aim their transmission at us. This will reduce the power requirement, but even if they are using an antenna the size of the 1000-foot Arecibo instrument, they would still need to wield more than a trillion watts, which is comparable to the total energy consumption of all humankind.
Both scenarios require an effort far, far beyond what we ourselves could do, and it’s hard to understand why anyone would want to target our solar system with a strong signal. This star system is so far away they won’t have yet picked up any TV or radar that would tell them that we’re here.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Aug 31, 2016 - 06:31am PT
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Gunkie, instead of a Death Star they may have a built a Disco Star.
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Aug 31, 2016 - 12:19pm PT
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Through the magic of my quantum computer and mathematical formulae I have obtained an image of an alien spacecraft moving our direction at warp speed. Beware.
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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Aug 31, 2016 - 02:41pm PT
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Close up of the driver and copilot -
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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Aug 31, 2016 - 02:48pm PT
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(You guys are pretty funny in this.) LOL.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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(You guys are pretty funny in this.) LOL.
Hey!
Don't look at me.
I'm not the one who came up with the concept that an Alien super race is beaming the entire power of their star to us on the Taco...
Stoopid aliens.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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jstan predicted the financial meltdown,
To be fair, he might have read Warren Buffet calling credit default swaps " weapons of mass destruction" in early 2008.
Warren, btw, is predicting another collapse soon as old debts from then come due.
Sounds different than the Fed, but then they prop up all economies prior to elections.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Outside the Asylum
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It would take an extremely powerful signal to detect if there's any intelligent life on Earth, let alone on ST.
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JC Marin
Trad climber
CA
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Is there intelligent life on earth?
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Outside the Asylum
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It may be like western civilization - a good idea. As Gandhi reputedly said.
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jstan
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 1, 2016 - 09:25pm PT
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I think it was in 2007 I read a piece by Bill Gross saying the mortgages being traded were of such low quality no one could assess their real market value. I remember posting a link to Bill Gross on ST.
Recently I read a piece pointing out the Fed owns some 4.5 trillion dollars worth of securities it bought in order to shore up the economy. Another article claimed we are in a new world where that bottom line will not have to be corrected and we will learn to live with it. I will have to find the link to Buffett's piece.
That four and a half trillion the Fed printed has gotten zero velocity and mostly resides under mattresses. Worrisome. Worrisome. To borrow recent speech patterns.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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would take an extremely powerful signal to detect if there's any intelligent life on Earth, let alone on ST.
Now they have 30 parsec microscopes?
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Outside the Asylum
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Gravitational lensing + long focal length.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Warren, btw, is predicting another collapse soon as old debts from then come due.
Not true. - CDO'S, CLO'S, and swaps activity is 10% of its pre-2008 levels.
That isn't to say there still aren't problems in the world's biggest market
-US housing. The problem now is that the gubmint has taken over the
mortgage business with Freddie, Fannie, the VA, FHA, and Ginnie now writing
65% of all mortgages and implicitly underwriting almost all the rest through
implied guarantees. What's wrong with that you say? Well, it's another
shell game as those gubmint entities are grossly under-capitalized and not
subject to normal market forces, not to mention the fox is guarding the hen
house now in that 20% of all loans granted since 2012 have loan-to-value
ratios of 95%, meaning homeowners are underwater if house prices fall by a
mere 5%! I could go on but I don't want to scare the kids at this hour.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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^^^...and, of course, the power of their entire star to light the stage.
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