Signal from 30 parsecs away

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jstan

climber
Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 29, 2016 - 05:44pm PT
NOVA
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Posted by Tim De Chant on Mon, 29 Aug 2016
SETI Investigating Signal From Sun-Like Star 95 Light-Years Away
Over the weekend, astronomers trained their telescopes a relatively close star, hoping for more evidence of a curious signal heard over a year ago by Russian radio telescope operators.

First detected on May 15, 2015—but only just now reported to other SETI scientists—the 11 GHz signal appears to have originated from HD 164595, a star with 0.99 solar masses and known to have at least one planet orbiting it, a so-called “warm Neptune.”


The Allen Telescope Array, one of the telescopes now observing HD 164595.
The frequency of the signal is unlikely to be an astrophysical phenomenon, though scientists have yet to rule out terrestrial interference.

Here’s Alan Boyle, reporting for GeekWire:

At least two SETI research groups are aiming to track HD 164595 tonight. The SETI Institute is using the Allen Telescope Array in northern California, while METI International is looking to the Boquete Optical SETI Observatory in Panama.

[Centuari Dreams’ author Paul] Gilster reports that the signal spike was detected more than a year ago, on May 15, 2015, by the RATAN-600 radio telescope in Zelenchukskaya. That facility is in the Russian republic of Karachay-Cherkessia, not far from the Georgian border.

Doug Vakoch, president of METI International, a SETI-affiliated group, expressed dismay in an email to Boyle that the report took so long to make its way to other scientists, saying that quick communication can help confirm the source or rule out interference. Vakoch’s team is among those now observing the star.

The high frequency is what’s driving interest in the signal. Here’s Eric Berger, reporting for Ars Technica:

“If this were a real astronomical source, it would be rather strange,” [astronomer Nick] Suntzeff told Ars. Although there are mysterious, high-energy astrophysical phenomenon called “fast radio bursts” that are seen at a few gigahertz, they last only 10 milliseconds or so (this event lasted longer). Unfortunately, he said, there is no information given about the strength of the signal as a function of frequency.

It’s possible that an 11 GHz radio signal could be ground-to-satellite communication or some unknown military transmission.

For now, given the number of caveats attached to this signal, astronomers are downplaying the possibility of extraterrestrial life.

We are on the verge of answering one of the greatest questions in history: Are we alone?
Photo credit: Seth Shostak/SETI/NSF
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 29, 2016 - 05:47pm PT
Uh oh. Is this planet named 'The Four Horsemen'?
WBraun

climber
Aug 29, 2016 - 05:54pm PT
It’s possible that an 11 GHz radio signal could be ground-to-satellite communication or some unknown military transmission.

Oh c'mon man.

11 GHz is where everyone in the commercial access point wifi point to point backhauls has been migrating towards.

The 5 GHz band has been saturated and is noisy as hell in most high use areas now a days.

11 GHz and 24 GHz is now becoming standard for backhauls .....
Ricky D

Trad climber
Sierra Westside
Aug 29, 2016 - 05:58pm PT
I heard from a buddy at Vandenberg that it was a retransmission relay of a Gilligan's Island episode replete with subtitles from some unknown language.
Srbphoto

climber
Kennewick wa
Aug 29, 2016 - 06:05pm PT
The Millennium Falcon made the Kessel Run in less than twelve parsecs.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Aug 29, 2016 - 06:06pm PT
The signal was decoded today. Here was the contents.



























Ricky D

Trad climber
Sierra Westside
Aug 29, 2016 - 06:06pm PT
If you get Viceland Channel on DirecTV - then Action Bronson will show you the truth -

Stewart Johnson

Mountain climber
lake forest
Aug 29, 2016 - 06:11pm PT
jstan

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 29, 2016 - 06:12pm PT
You jokers are just upset the earth will be great again.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Aug 29, 2016 - 06:24pm PT
I don't think we are going to have to worry about clean air and water, for much longer.

Let's hope they land in Russia, first.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 29, 2016 - 06:25pm PT
It's, GOD, signaling to us.

To start running up my credit card balance on hookers and blow?
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Aug 29, 2016 - 06:26pm PT
"All your base are belong to us"
Flip Flop

climber
Earth Planet, Universe
Aug 29, 2016 - 06:26pm PT
Escape from the Planet of the Chumps in only 30 parsecs? Sweet deal.
jstan

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 29, 2016 - 06:27pm PT
Reilly:

May we assume you employ only 5.13 hookers?

Edit:

Yeah Mike. Why aren't you around when we need you?
guido

Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
Aug 29, 2016 - 06:41pm PT
Mike Bolt we need you NOW!
MH2

Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
Aug 29, 2016 - 07:38pm PT
astronomers are downplaying the possibility of extraterrestrial life.



That's cuz they haven't caught up with the terrestrial yet.
phylp

Trad climber
Upland, CA
Aug 29, 2016 - 08:13pm PT
Thanks, JStan. This is fascinating.
mtnyoung

Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
Aug 29, 2016 - 08:21pm PT

Thanks, JStan. This is fascinating.

Sorry to (also) mess up the irreverence, but it is very interesting. TFPU!
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Aug 29, 2016 - 08:27pm PT
"Working out the strength of the signal, the researchers say that if it came from an isotropic beacon, it would be of a power possible only for a Kardashev Type II civilisation.

If it were a narrow beam signal focused on our solar system, it would be of a power available to a Kardashev Type I civilisation.'

The Kardashev scale is a way of measuring an alien society's technological advancement based upon how much energy it has at its disposal.

A Type I civilisation is given to species who have been able to harness all the energy that is available from a nearby star, gathering and storing it to meet its population's demands.

A Type II civilisation is much more advanced and can harness the power of their entire star.

Type III is a species that has been able to master everything having to do with energy. Earth doesn't feature on the scale."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3763416/Is-Earth-contacted-ALIENS-Mystery-radio-signals-coming-sun-like-star-baffle-scientists.html
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Aug 29, 2016 - 08:29pm PT
May we assume you employ only 5.13 hookers?

Just assume if there are hookers involved it's not free, just like climbing.
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Aug 29, 2016 - 08:43pm PT
jstan predicted the financial meltdown,

if he is right about this i declare him to be the new jeezus,
jstan

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 29, 2016 - 09:22pm PT
if he is right about this i declare him to be the new jeezus,

What's the "new" all about?
JC Marin

Trad climber
CA
Aug 29, 2016 - 09:25pm PT
briham89

Big Wall climber
santa cruz, ca
Aug 29, 2016 - 09:25pm PT
Wild stuff
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Aug 29, 2016 - 09:32pm PT
"Working out the strength of the signal, the researchers say that if it came from an isotropic beacon, it would be of a power possible only for a Kardashev Type II civilisation.

A level II Kim Kardashian civilization scares the hell out of me!
looks easy from here

climber
Ben Lomond, CA
Aug 29, 2016 - 09:33pm PT
I'll wait for a second party confirmation before I get excited. But I'm pleased that they didn't rush a premature "OMGLOOKWHATWEFOUND" press release.
Ricky D

Trad climber
Sierra Westside
Aug 29, 2016 - 09:37pm PT
The heck with your Kardashev scale - this is America in 2016 where what matters is the Kardashian Scale.

Once those Aliens get a gander at this earthly booty there will be no stopping those randy little bastards from streaming our way.

Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Aug 29, 2016 - 10:24pm PT
The message was actually a question in English with the answer in a mysterious alien script.

Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Aug 30, 2016 - 12:38am PT
http://www.seti.org/seti-institute/a-seti-signal
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Aug 30, 2016 - 01:35am PT
I'm confused.

A super intelligent alien race uses a bandwidth two hundred times broader than we do for tv?

I thought the intelligent thing to do was compress data into small bandwidths so you can send more data.

What do they have, one tv station? We had that in the thirties.
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Aug 30, 2016 - 02:49am PT
jack nickelson was right after all,

or the putinator is trying a war of the worlds prank just to stir sh#t up,

either way, this happened 94 years ago so hopefully their planet exploded making us once again king of the universe,
clinker

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
Aug 30, 2016 - 06:24am PT
I'm confused.

A super intelligent alien race uses a bandwidth two hundred times broader than we do for tv?

I thought the intelligent thing to do was compress data into small bandwidths so you can send more data.

What do they have, one tv station? We had that in the thirties.

Their cell phones are probably huge and have been used to club others of their race to death in road rage incidents.
JC Marin

Trad climber
CA
Aug 30, 2016 - 08:14am PT
A superior race of beings with superior technology...what could possibly go wrong?
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Aug 30, 2016 - 08:47am PT
either way, this happened 94 years ago so hopefully their planet exploded making us once again king of the universe,

Alternatively, they are finding out that 94 years ago today the Phillies got 46 hits in a double header.

And now I know as much about 1922 as a super intelligent alien race.
yanqui

climber
Balcarce, Argentina
Aug 30, 2016 - 08:52am PT
I imagine they've taken the theory of topological vector spaces way beyond Grothendieck's work.
bchains

Trad climber
Bay Area, CA
Aug 30, 2016 - 09:31am PT
WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!!!!!
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Aug 30, 2016 - 09:43am PT
Klimmer would know, Lorenzo.

Oh, G_d...
jstan

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 30, 2016 - 06:18pm PT
http://www.space.com/33904-seti-mystery-signal-wow-alien-message-debate.html

Another article on the signal. I suspect the chance this is an important event is close to nil. It is interesting however and it should stimulate us to think about what is involved.

The very first possible radio emission from earth came about 1880 so were that an actual emission the wave can only have travelled about 140 light years. Were there a reply it could not have come from a distance greater than 70 light years, unless the physics involved here violates our current understanding.

As our technology improves and provided we do not destroy ourselves before we get an answer, the SETI will probably remain a popularly interesting question. Over the next several hundred years we might expect events, potentially all of them due to natural processes, to gradually increase in frequency of occurrence.

It will be a damn shame if we have been too undisciplined and have gone before there is an answer.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Aug 30, 2016 - 06:45pm PT
The very first possible radio emission from earth came about 1880 so were that an actual emission the wave can only have travelled about 140 light years. Were there a reply it could not have come from a distance greater than 70 light years, unless the physics involved here violates our current understanding.


Ok,

our transmissions into space that superior Aliens will hear first are Mickey Mouse, Amos and Andy, I Love Lucy, ( LuCY!!! Jou got some 'splainin to do!!), and now include Donald Trump.

If they didn't with Lucy, Trump is going to make them turn their receivers elsewhere.

( no intelligent life there....nope, no way).
Mike Bolte

Trad climber
Planet Earth
Aug 30, 2016 - 09:21pm PT
Hi John - this is an interesting signal, but as you have inferred, it is not likely from an alien society.

Frank Drake was a member of the faculty here at Santa Cruz for a number of years and after leaving has been the principal force behind SETI. He is a really wonderful fellow. Very smart and quite charismatic. Seth Shostak who is quoted in some of these articles is also a great guy. Smart, funny and a good spokesman for the program. Strangely enough, the other fellow quoted in one of the articles above, Nick Suntzeff is also a longtime friend and colleague.

20 years ago, SETI was not really mentioned in polite scientific circles although many of us secretly were happy those guys and gals were doing the radio search, then the optical (lasers) search. When it started to be clear that planets were very common in the Galaxy (probably there are billions of planets), SETI started to be taken much more seriously. When I was the Director of the UC Observatories, I directed funding and telescope time to the efforts that are based at Lick Observatory. The discovery of intelligent life on another planet in the Galaxy would be the most important discovery in the history of science and humankind.

But, this particular signal is interesting, but very energetic. As HFCS summarized above, if this is a signal sent out in all directions from the source (isotropic), the strength at the Earth would imply a civilization that had managed to harness the entire energy output of its parent star (Type II). The other option for intelligent life is that they have beamed the energy of the signal directly at our Solar System. Hard to understand how we would have been picked out for that attention. The explanation that this is a background source temporarily boosted in signal strength by gravitational focusing is plausible and testable.

Collecting a bunch of additional data at different wavelengths and times will be the way to sort this out and those activities are underway,

jstan

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 30, 2016 - 10:57pm PT
Mike:
Some what ifs. If the earth wanted to establish contact at a reasonable cost in energy we might give up on everything more than some distance away. Say 100 ly. Then we would send out a highly collimated beam and paint the sky dwelling some small time at each step. Comes down to a tradeoff between time and power. If there were any listeners out there once a signal had been detected the listeners would presumably monitor the area 24x7. The senders could periodically repeat their transmissions over the full sky. If we can't model the form of the transmission in terms of natural processes, receipt of the second signal would leave us with something to think about.

A one way communication but maybe 200 years is not that long for some. Here on earth most communications are one way. We ought to be pretty good at this.

It is hard to imagine we won't receive innumerable natural signals once we really begin to listen.
Mike Bolte

Trad climber
Planet Earth
Aug 30, 2016 - 11:25pm PT
John - your suggestion is a good one and is usually referred to as "active SETI". You can google up some information about it, but it is basically as you suggest. We send a message to all of the stars within a certain distance, or all of the nearby stars with known planetary systems.

If that is what we are seeing from HD164595, the signal will be persistent and it will have a message that will be seen as a modulation at some wavelength.
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Aug 30, 2016 - 11:48pm PT
in which direction is the capsule with the Chuck Berry song headed?

was that sent USPS 2 day priority mail in a medium flat rate box?

was it insured? for how much? what is the tracking number?

estimated delivery date?
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Aug 31, 2016 - 12:22am PT
The answer to which vehicle The golden record was on is in this clip

[Click to View YouTube Video]

It was headed for the star Sirius, but as you see, was apparently diverted.

So we will see it again.

Estimated delivery date 2273
Gunkie

Trad climber
Valles Marineris
Aug 31, 2016 - 05:22am PT
I think everyone is at the same conclusion that this signal is just something else...

Now note that we can work backwards from the strength of the received signal to calculate how powerful an alien transmitter anywhere near HD 164595 would have to be. There are two interesting cases:

(1) They decide to broadcast in all directions. Then the required power is 1020 watts, or 100 billion billion watts. That’s hundreds of times more energy than all the sunlight falling on Earth, and would obviously require power sources far beyond any we have.

(2) They aim their transmission at us. This will reduce the power requirement, but even if they are using an antenna the size of the 1000-foot Arecibo instrument, they would still need to wield more than a trillion watts, which is comparable to the total energy consumption of all humankind.

Both scenarios require an effort far, far beyond what we ourselves could do, and it’s hard to understand why anyone would want to target our solar system with a strong signal. This star system is so far away they won’t have yet picked up any TV or radar that would tell them that we’re here.
clinker

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
Aug 31, 2016 - 06:31am PT
Gunkie, instead of a Death Star they may have a built a Disco Star.
jgill

Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
Aug 31, 2016 - 12:19pm PT
Through the magic of my quantum computer and mathematical formulae I have obtained an image of an alien spacecraft moving our direction at warp speed. Beware.

Ricky D

Trad climber
Sierra Westside
Aug 31, 2016 - 02:41pm PT
Close up of the driver and copilot -

MikeL

Social climber
Southern Arizona
Aug 31, 2016 - 02:48pm PT
(You guys are pretty funny in this.) LOL.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Sep 1, 2016 - 06:25pm PT
(You guys are pretty funny in this.) LOL.

Hey!

Don't look at me.

I'm not the one who came up with the concept that an Alien super race is beaming the entire power of their star to us on the Taco...



















Stoopid aliens.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Sep 1, 2016 - 09:02pm PT
jstan predicted the financial meltdown,

To be fair, he might have read Warren Buffet calling credit default swaps " weapons of mass destruction" in early 2008.

Warren, btw, is predicting another collapse soon as old debts from then come due.


Sounds different than the Fed, but then they prop up all economies prior to elections.
Mighty Hiker

climber
Outside the Asylum
Sep 1, 2016 - 09:05pm PT
It would take an extremely powerful signal to detect if there's any intelligent life on Earth, let alone on ST.
JC Marin

Trad climber
CA
Sep 1, 2016 - 09:09pm PT
Is there intelligent life on earth?
Mighty Hiker

climber
Outside the Asylum
Sep 1, 2016 - 09:10pm PT
It may be like western civilization - a good idea. As Gandhi reputedly said.
jstan

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 1, 2016 - 09:25pm PT
I think it was in 2007 I read a piece by Bill Gross saying the mortgages being traded were of such low quality no one could assess their real market value. I remember posting a link to Bill Gross on ST.

Recently I read a piece pointing out the Fed owns some 4.5 trillion dollars worth of securities it bought in order to shore up the economy. Another article claimed we are in a new world where that bottom line will not have to be corrected and we will learn to live with it. I will have to find the link to Buffett's piece.

That four and a half trillion the Fed printed has gotten zero velocity and mostly resides under mattresses. Worrisome. Worrisome. To borrow recent speech patterns.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Sep 1, 2016 - 09:45pm PT
A piece on derivatives by Buffet in 2002!
http://www.fintools.com/docs/Warren%20Buffet%20on%20Derivatives.pdf



http://www.reuters.com/article/us-derivatives-credit-idUSN1837154020080918

T-bills and Gold, baby.

[Click to View YouTube Video]

Does this mean I can be Jeebus next?
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Sep 1, 2016 - 10:01pm PT
would take an extremely powerful signal to detect if there's any intelligent life on Earth, let alone on ST.

Now they have 30 parsec microscopes?
Mighty Hiker

climber
Outside the Asylum
Sep 1, 2016 - 10:06pm PT
Gravitational lensing + long focal length.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Sep 1, 2016 - 10:08pm PT
Warren, btw, is predicting another collapse soon as old debts from then come due.

Not true. - CDO'S, CLO'S, and swaps activity is 10% of its pre-2008 levels.
That isn't to say there still aren't problems in the world's biggest market
-US housing. The problem now is that the gubmint has taken over the
mortgage business with Freddie, Fannie, the VA, FHA, and Ginnie now writing
65% of all mortgages and implicitly underwriting almost all the rest through
implied guarantees. What's wrong with that you say? Well, it's another
shell game as those gubmint entities are grossly under-capitalized and not
subject to normal market forces, not to mention the fox is guarding the hen
house now in that 20% of all loans granted since 2012 have loan-to-value
ratios of 95%, meaning homeowners are underwater if house prices fall by a
mere 5%! I could go on but I don't want to scare the kids at this hour.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Sep 1, 2016 - 10:11pm PT
^^^...and, of course, the power of their entire star to light the stage.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Sep 1, 2016 - 10:14pm PT
Not True

Not true that Warren predicts another collapse?

From June 24..
Billionaires Dumping Stocks; Stock Market Crash on the Way
http://www.profitconfidential.com/economic-analysis/upcoming-stock-market-crash/

The Billionaire bros be Buffet, Paulson, and Soros.

Whew! The Timbers are safe.
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Sep 1, 2016 - 10:25pm PT
jtsan's post went something like this IIRC:



"merill lynch is going to ask the feds for a bailout this week, if the feds refuse, look for a general meltdown"

30 days later was the meltdown,

Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Sep 1, 2016 - 10:34pm PT
Well, the meltdown was Lehman bros on Sept 13-14. 2008

mL was just standing on the deck as the iceberg approached.
Talk started about BOA merger.

ML asked the Fed for $20 billion in January 2009. That forced the BOA merger.

Paulson was head of the Fed if I remember right.

( I played Lacrosse with an ex-Lehman bros president who died in a ski accident. He was dead years before)
jstan

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 1, 2016 - 10:45pm PT
T-bills and Gold, baby

Already there. Have been for years. If you have an aquifer laying around, I could be tempted.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Sep 1, 2016 - 10:52pm PT
I could sell you a nice recently fracked one...

I'm going for all the Pu 238 that's left.
jstan

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 1, 2016 - 10:53pm PT
You always were a spoil sport, Larry.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Sep 1, 2016 - 11:07pm PT
wouldnt you like this in your living room?
Beats a lava lamp
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Sep 1, 2016 - 11:29pm PT

a good run, anyway
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Sep 2, 2016 - 02:49am PT
For the last two days the land line here has been picking up a signal!?
Should I report it to more than just the super Topo crowd?
It is weird - you turn a handset on and hear an open line, and a background of random conversation ?
One can not call out. . . . . but incoming calls keep coming in?
I wish it were the other way around,
but the aliens are moon lighting as bill collectors
Seems like it could be the Aliens that I've read live in the moon?
They have to fund their Rockets too!
It must be extraterrestrial !
what else could interrupt modern tele-communications?









































A Mouse! Chewing on a cable......
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Sep 2, 2016 - 10:59am PT
wouldnt you like this in your living room?

Pu238 would be fine... and powering a heat engine would keep things controlled, though its half-life might be a disadvantage for long term investment...

too bad we don't make it anymore... great for exploring the solar system
Messages 1 - 70 of total 70 in this topic
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