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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Nov 10, 2016 - 06:12pm PT
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This thread will die eventually..... bets on last count? 13k?
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Nov 10, 2016 - 06:12pm PT
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I won't be baited that easily.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
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Nov 10, 2016 - 06:15pm PT
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Madbolter.. Seriously...? Get rid of the insurance companies and the cost will drop even further...are you really that naive...? Do you wear a kick me sign on your butt...?
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Nov 10, 2016 - 06:24pm PT
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Get rid of the insurance companies and the cost will drop even further...are you really that naive...?
Nothing I said expressed or implied getting rid of insurance companies. Try to read with comprehension before you go on the attack.
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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Nov 10, 2016 - 06:25pm PT
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There are amazing leaders being raised up. Name ten that you've met. Or even five. the leaders of which i speak are not famous players that you and I see in the media.
Oh those pesky facts again! If Cragman's not up for it, let me give it a shot.
Jesus. Jesus. Jesus. Jesus. Jesus.
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10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
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Nov 10, 2016 - 06:28pm PT
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The problem with reading political threads here is that it really runs down my opinion of climbers I used to respect. That Robert L though, he's alright.
+1
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Nov 10, 2016 - 06:28pm PT
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Madbolter-
Now, Peter is reacting! Yeah, Paul is horrified, because when you rob Peter to pay Paul, you will always have the support of Paul. But now Peter is back in power, which horrifies Paul. So, what does Peter want to do now? Well, of course, to screw Paul back!
As usual, you're heavy on the pedantic verbiage and light on the analysis.
You conveniently left out Evil Preston. He's the 1 percenter that uses Screech TV and radio to trick dipshit Peter that it was Paul that stole from him. And while Peter and Paul fight it out, Preston screws both Peter and Paul. Peter isn't back in power, he just has his nose buried so deep in Preston's ass he can't see what's going on..
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Nov 10, 2016 - 06:30pm PT
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Hey, John E...check your ST email.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Nov 10, 2016 - 06:37pm PT
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Please explain how "reigning in the costs" of a commercially marketed good that is dear to you can happen through free market forces opposed to "onerous government regulation".
I have never opposed "onerous government regulation." I have consistently and perpetually stated that the government has no constitutional right to steal from its citizens to redistribute their money directly into the hands of other citizens. However, it does have a constitutional responsibility to regulate commerce, particularly in the anti-trust context.
Don't confuse me with a "conservative" or "republican." I am neither.
The government has spent so much time, money, and HR doing things it has no right to do, that it has not devoted the time, money, and HR to doing the things it actually has a responsibility to do.
For example, look at these regional cable monopolies. Why are we perpetually facing rising prices and terrible service and support? Monopoly.
When a few companies have reached the point when they have a stranglehold on the supply of medical equipment, medications, apparatus, etc., such companies need to be investigated for anti-trust violations and perhaps forcibly broken up (as was done to Ma-Bell BITD).
I know that the repubs here will be screaming, "Leave the free market alone!" I don't agree, and neither did our founders. There is no such thing as a completely "free market," because any market is based upon some sort of "currency," and it is obvious that the power over currency was given to the feds (NOT to "the fed") by our constitution. So, SOME sort of "manipulation" and "regulation" is going to take place at the federal level. And the feds have the constitutional right to "regulate" interstate commerce (although that clause has come to mean basically anything, which can't be right).
When "monopoly" reaches the point of tacit price-fixing and obviously obscene profits, it is the responsibility of our government to, in the interests of the people, penalize or even break up such entities. And when a syringe costs $100, yet the demonstrable costs to produce, transport, and even liability-insure that syringe can't be even a buck, it is the responsibility of our government to investigate and hold accountable the entities that are responsible for such price-hikes.
So, you won't find me espousing a laissez faire government regarding "free markets."
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Nov 10, 2016 - 06:40pm PT
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You conveniently left out Evil Preston. He's the 1 percenter that uses Screech TV and radio to trick dipshit Peter that it was Paul that stole from him.
I've never listened to Preston, and I was not "tricked" into the knowledge that Obamacare stole directly from me and gave that money directly to somebody else.
Even our SCOTUS was transparent about the fact that Obamacare directly robs Peter to pay Paul, so the SCOTUS called it a "tax."
There's no "trickery" here other than that employed by the Democrats to foist the mess off on us.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Nov 10, 2016 - 06:46pm PT
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And when a syringe costs $100, yet the demonstrable costs to produce, transport, and even liability-insure that syringe can't be even a buck, it is the responsibility of our government to investigate and hold accountable the entities that are responsible for such price-hikes.
So, you won't find me espousing a laissez faire government regarding "free markets."
As usual, not much to disagree with in all the previous WOTs. However, you must recognize that, in many cases, besides the transport, liability and production cost of that syringe the overhead dedicated to meeting the multitude of spurious government regulations and graft masquerading as consumer protection can add up pretty quick for the supply side.
The point being, while we can and should expect the government to protect anti-trust commerce, we should demand they do it in a manner that DOESN'T otherwise line their pockets or prop up the government sector with useless jobs monitoring senseless regulations. Because then we end up with what we have today which is a healthcare house of cards build on regulations designed to provide political juice and patient's best interest be damned.
For the record, that model is on full display within many of our key sectors, not just healthcare.
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Nov 10, 2016 - 07:11pm PT
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Plastic is dirt cheap. Forming it into a syringe is dirt cheap. Transporting that syringe to a hospital and putting it on a shelf or in a drawer is cheap. So, when a syringe costs $100 (I've seen it on the bill!), there is no way that the supply side is doing things right. Somebody is getting wealthy somewhere in the supply side chain before that needle ever enters my arm and I'm billed $100 for just the syringe part of that treatment!
you should not post to topics that you are completely ignorant on.
first of all, the syringe needs to be of a material type that does not hurt the patient, nor should it interact withe the drug. second of all, quality assurance and quality control needs to be factored in such that you did not get the syringe fabricated with leachable arsenic from china. last of all, the syringe needs to have certifiable sterilization. if you want a $1 syringe go see your neighborhood dealer. yes 100$ seems expensive. so does a $70 cam that protects your ass.
edit:
your candidate has made money doing the same stuff and here you and esco are espousing "government intervention" into investigating he drug companies that pay for politicians to win elections. the same investigations that failed to find hillary guilty.
are you guys that f*#king inconsistent? or that f*#king stupid?
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Nov 10, 2016 - 07:12pm PT
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as someone actually reliant upon epi-pens, I have to say that if DT fails to tackle Mylan's DOUBLING OF THE PRICE ON A WHIM, I will not be surprised.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Nov 10, 2016 - 07:14pm PT
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User Actions
Follow
Donald J. TrumpVerified account
@realDonaldTrump
Just had a very open and successful presidential election. Now professional protesters, incited by the media, are protesting. Very unfair!
Free speech is a bitch sometimes.
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Nov 10, 2016 - 07:14pm PT
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Trump-ites on my campus, 11/8: "vote for Glenn. He's black."
I was sitting amongst the dark part of the audience and I learned some choice ebonic responses.
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Nov 10, 2016 - 07:18pm PT
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Madbolter-That's amazing!
You think it's Paul that engineered all this- for what, a $60k government salary or just to screw Peter?
Almost all government oversight and services are as a result of abuses or lack of interest in public good by Preston.
That's the triad of misery for millennia.
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pyrosis
Boulder climber
Bishop, CA
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Nov 10, 2016 - 07:20pm PT
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The public option was removed at the insistence of Joe Lieberman, an independent, whose vote was necessary to end the filibuster in the senate. Not a single republican voted for it even after removal of the public option. So no, the public option was not removed to placate the republicans.
Edit to add - woah im way too slow for this thread, that was a response to something that was said two pages back LOL
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Nov 10, 2016 - 07:23pm PT
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Brennan,
1/10
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