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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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Jul 26, 2016 - 11:34am PT
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Emmy04
Boulder climber
Sheridan, WY
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Jul 26, 2016 - 12:27pm PT
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Can we just adopt you all as family? Seriously! Thank you all so much!! Your love and support and encouragement is so uplifting. You all rock!!
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Jul 26, 2016 - 12:37pm PT
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Can we just adopt you all as family? Seriously! Thank you all so much!! Your love and support and encouragement is so uplifting. You all rock!!
You already have.
Neebee's cards rock!
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Jul 26, 2016 - 04:43pm PT
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Sometimes it looks like the world is going to hell. Who knows, maybe it really is?
But that's a perfect time to laugh at it all and turn it into your joy:
Climbing in the rain is good for the soul
There's a lot of wisdom in the idea "fake it 'til you make it." I spent YEARS trying to get through one day at a time, basically thinking that I screwed up my life path and as a consequence I had to accept the daily nightmare that my life had become. I truly had no hope or thought of a better life. I just somehow got through each day in misery. I hated the way it was, but was afraid of how much worse it could/would be if I tried to do something about it, and was stuck in that purgatory. That purgatory for me was not about ending my life- it was about staying in an insanely destructive and hurtful marriage. Eventually it got painful enough that I did try to do something about it, and it did get much worse as a consequence for about 6 years. Somehow I'm not wired to think of giving up life, but I was wired to just wallow in intense psychic suffering and not thinking that I deserved any type of happiness. That I wasn't worthy of love or belonging among people who would accept me.
Just by hanging on one day at a time, taking baby steps of bravery, and actually staying connected to people through this forum helped some too.
Fast forward- I've been 8 years with a wonderful woman, a gentle spirit, and we've had a wonderful life together that is night and day different from what I had lived through. If at any point from 20 to 10 years ago you asked me if I thought that was possible, I would not have believed it.
Sometimes you have to crawl through the dark abyss to reach the light
Happiness may not seem possible or logical from your present vantage, but have a little faith that it's worth finding out for yourself.
Hang in there Tanner. You obviously have people who care a lot about you, and you have no idea how many more can be out there in your future.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Jul 26, 2016 - 05:00pm PT
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hey Tanner
Welcome to the big Supertopo family. Kind of a big family with many misfit aunts and uncles, but everyone is good people. Hope to see you in the mountains, or a least read about your adventures. Post up some pics, I have always drooled over Fremont Canyon never been but it looks awesome.
Jon
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Jul 26, 2016 - 06:35pm PT
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Well stated, John M.
For Tanner, fortunately he survived the suicide attempts and is under professional care.
If he has clinical depression, that is very tough and painful.
I've heard the most important thing is finding a good therapist.
Drugs may also help, but it may take time to find one which is helpful.
In the meantime, it's great news that he smiled at some of the encouraging words on this thread.
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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Jul 26, 2016 - 06:47pm PT
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I've been seeing a lot more of these articles in the last few years. There is of course no way of knowing if Tanner is affected in this way by altitude, (except by moving to near sea level elevations and seeing if there is improvement) It may be worth considering should things get worse. At the least keeping it in mind. ( Google " altitude/depression or altitude/suicide rates)
Good luck.
http://www.livescience.com/50813-low-oxygen-increase-depression.html
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Sarah Kindle
Boulder climber
Sheridan, Wyoming
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 26, 2016 - 06:54pm PT
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I did show him the thread before any of this was posted, I understand people are concerned. He has been dealing with severe depression for about 9 years. I am sorry if it has offended anyone that I reached out here. The kind words, pictures and good vibes have been amazing for him and I thank you all so much. He has a heart of gold and today I saw him smile and cry because of this thread. I asked him why he was crying and he said " because I'm happy"! That is because of you all. If I reached out in the wrong place I'm sincerely sorry, but it has been amazing for him, for me, and my entire family. Love and Light.
Sarah
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Jul 26, 2016 - 07:03pm PT
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I usually reserve the right the free-speech and RARELY delete my thoughts. I did so to others' requests.
Sarah, or Tanner, could somebody better explain the specific issues? We are a diverse group of people with one common obsession (climbing), and many, many problems in our heads (climbing, climbing, climbing).
We are different than most people. Tell us what Tanner's problem is. We, I, would love to help.
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John M
climber
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Jul 26, 2016 - 07:03pm PT
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Sarah.. I am in no way offended by what you have posted, and don't believe anyone else here is. What you are doing is good. The problem is that some people's idea of help is not always a good idea. So I would check with a professional first.
I had major depression since I was a child. I can't begin to say how many times I sat with a gun to my head wanting to pull the trigger but also not wanting to do this to my friends and family. I was never afraid of dying. It was what I would do to my friends and family that kept me from pulling the trigger. Plus I believed it was a sin.
Tanner.. things can get better. It took me a long time to find answers. I am 57. But docs are so much better now and there are answers out there. You have to have courage to find them and work through them. But its a lot like climbing. Climbing takes courage, so I know that you have it. Just keep trying and working on it. It is fully possible to have a full rich life. And you obviously have people who care very much about you.
John
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Jul 26, 2016 - 07:05pm PT
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It's not a wrong place at all. Sounds like it's helping!
We like to help.
And it's great that climbing can be helpful. Sometimes it feels selfish, but there is a lot that can be good about it.
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Sarah Kindle
Boulder climber
Sheridan, Wyoming
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 26, 2016 - 07:18pm PT
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I have talked to the professionals that he is working with and they all agree this is a good thing. He did shoot him self a little over two months ago and survived it.. He has severe depression and has been through a lot in his young life. He had a tramatic brain injury, severe depression and anxiety. Climbing was his way of coping. That is why I looked to other climbers for good advice and encouragement. He is going to be getting help for a while. I am amazed by the amount of support.
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Coach37
Social climber
Philly
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Jul 26, 2016 - 07:28pm PT
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Sarah, you did great. People always suspect "trolls" from new accounts, so don't take it the wrong way. You are helping family, and should be commended for it.
Tanner, I wish I knew the right thing to say.
There is just so much worth sticking around for, that more than outweighs life's suffering. And if you can dwell in those beautiful moments - that feeling of barely onsighting a hard pitch, sunset from the portaledge, the stillness and quiet of the woods in a fresh blanket of snow, nieces and nephews laughing and clowning, you know the kind of things I'm talking about; if you can dwell in those feelings and return to them in hard times, it can help pull you through. Everyone has different moments that are burned into their memory, moments of pure joy, contentment, and well, love really.
I try to dwell in those feelings and memories and dreams for the future, and return to them in my mind when everything else feels like it's total sh#t and falling apart around me (which seems to be story of my life lately, everything is falling apart). I say "try to" dwell in those because its not easy for me, I'm pretty negative in general and it took some real conscious effort (and professional help) to get out of my thought spirals, there was a lot of "trying" before it became more natural and automatic.
I also found that having what feels like a real purpose to my life did more to help me out of the darkness than anything else. My day job feels empty and stupid, and a big waste of my life. It doesn't accomplish anything that contributes to society, it just puts a paycheck in my pocket. But years ago I started tutoring reading and math to children, then took up tutoring adults learning english. Knowing that my purpose is to help these people, that they are relying on me, and seeing the difference it makes in their lives, that's plenty for me. I couldn't care less about career goals, and do just enough to keep the bosses off my back. But I work hard for my students. Because it matters.
Find something that matters, and dive into it.
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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Jul 26, 2016 - 07:29pm PT
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Can we just adopt you all as family?
It's too late. you already have :-)
Coach37 +1
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Emmy04
Boulder climber
Sheridan, WY
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Jul 27, 2016 - 10:12am PT
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Hi all.
Wanted to let you know how much your thoughts, sentiments, prayers, vibes, and stories are meaning to us and to our guy. I'm glad you have allowed us to adopt you as "family" because you all have really taken our breath away with your genuine care for a complete stranger. You have helped restored my faith in humanity. Thank you for that, as well.
I know that this topic can make some people uncomfortable. But I'm afraid that's one reason why we're in this situation. To those of you brave enough to share your own personal story and those who aren't afraid to find understanding in what mental illness really is... thank you for helping making the change. The silence has to end.Talking about what's uncomfortable makes us stronger and shows us that we aren't alone and that we are all more alike than one would think.
Every single one of you whom have reached out have made an impact. Please go to bed tonight knowing that. You made a difference. You cared and you made a difference because of that. You'll all have a special place in my heart forever because of it.
With love and mad respect,
Emily (Tanner's cousin <3 )
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John M
climber
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Jul 27, 2016 - 11:13am PT
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Hi Emmy,
We have quite a few people on this forum who have dealt with serious levels of depression and we have had many conversations about it. If you search depression you will find a number of threads.
I believe that only a few people here have issues with discussing it. Sometimes simply because they don't want to think about it and they just want to think and talk about climbing. But we have that issue with every off topic thread. From politics to dog. So its something that we face often. Trying to maintain a balance between those who want an "only climbing" forum and those who want to talk about everything.
The first problem that you ran into on this thread was that some folks thought this might be a troll thread. In case you don't have experience with forums, a troll thread is someone who doesn't actually have the problem, but is just looking for attention, or to see how many response that they can get. I believe thats been settled that you and Sarah are not trolls.
The second problem was that I was not comfortable with how some people were approaching Tanner's situation. I have a life time of dealing with depression and am very familiar with the kinds of things that can be hurtful to someone who is suicidal. One of those was something Bluering said. It was about needing a meaningful job. While on many levels that is true. It often comes across as meaning "get a job you lazy bum". Or it comes across as "all you need to do to overcome depression is to pull yourself up by your bootstrap". In my case I started working at a young age and hard work did nothing to help with my problems with depression. In fact it was an insult to me to suggest that all that I needed to do was "work harder" as I worked very hard. Please understand here that I know Bluering from this forum and I believe that he is a good guy and means well, but in this case I felt that he was making dangerous statements that can come across to someone with severe depression as belittling their pain.
When someone is dealing with depression, and especially if they are suicidal and even more especially if they have actually attempted suicide, then "just finding a good Job" isn't really going to fix things and is overly simplistic. It can and should be part of a long term solution, but in the immediate sense, it can be dangerous to focus on as it can be very frustrating to hear. The mountain of pain one experiences make the thought seem too far away and entirely impossible. And if you have heard it a thousand times, then for me it triggers anger. It tells me that the person does not know what they are talking about. One doesn't tell a person with Cancer, "you need a meaningful job". Yet with mental health issues people seem to fall on that as the solution. For someone with what I call situation depression, i.e. stemming from something like losing a job, or breaking up with a girl friend, then these kinds of solutions can be all that is needed. But for someone who has been struggling with depression for years, then there are other issues that need to be solved first.
This makes me cry, because I am all too familiar with the struggle that Tanner is facing right now. You haven't said where he shot himself, but to have gotten that far means that things are as serious as they get with depression and suicidal tendencies. He is likely very lucky to be alive. There is a scale for rating the level of a suicide attempt. Using a gun is at the top of the level. That means that Tanner was in extreme pain and or did not have the internal and external support mechanisms in place to help him get through it. Please don't take this to mean that he had no support. What I mean is that in his head he can not connect it, or accept it.
And please know that I iwas in no way suggesting that this thread was a bad idea. I believe that it is a great idea. The climbing community can be fairly volatile, but it is also one that tends to pull together for someone when the chips are down. Its kind of like church, where people support each other, but the mountains are our temple.
I hope this clears things up for you and you feel free to post here. I'm certain there are lots of people who would like to support Tanner and you. The family needs support too. Tanner is blessed to have two cousins who support him and I hope that you will continue to update us on his condition.
Oh.. and by the way, many of us are likely old enough to adopt you. :-)
John
Edit: ( whoa, didn't realize how much that I had written. )
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Jul 27, 2016 - 02:55pm PT
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Oh.. and by the way, many of us are likely old enough to adopt you. :-)
Laughing. Too true.
edit: climbers tend to feel like out casts from society. not sure how it is now with the younger crowd. back in the day we followed a different path than the traditional high school sports and college fraternities/sororities, although there are exceptions.
Cheers and hang in there Tanner.
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mcreel
climber
Barcelona
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Jul 27, 2016 - 03:14pm PT
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Hi Tanner,
You know how when you reach up and get 3 pads on a sun warmed incut edge, how it feels so good? Well, there are a lot of things that feel that way, but it might take some time to find them. I had a longer message, but none of that felt as true as the 3 pad edge, so I deleted it.
Michael
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Jul 27, 2016 - 03:27pm PT
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Also remember the smell of the rock. It is always unique.
Just the joy of physical movement is a pleasure. Ever done any back country skiing?
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