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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
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Jul 26, 2016 - 10:13pm PT
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Kris... Reagan's deregulation theme sounds very republican...Am i wrong..?
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Jul 27, 2016 - 07:25am PT
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Deregulation? Sure. Is that a Republican theme? Yes. I just get frustrated when someone takes that to the extreme, as if any sane person advocates for no regulation or no government.
I have a long list of issues where I cannot stand with the Republicans. But this argument that the centralized Federal government is running amok, that regulation is out of control, is an issue which I think is real. Does that mean that I am against having a government and advocate for zero regulation? No.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Jul 27, 2016 - 07:47am PT
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this argument that the centralized Federal government is running amok, that regulation is out of control, is an issue which I think is real.
Are you taking into account that this is now a country of 340 million and not 34 million or 3.4 million?
More regulation is necessarily the price we have to pay for these (over) population numbers. We simply cannot have it both ways. Basic ecology. Basic politics, too (or it should be).
In 1776, if memory serves, the population of the 13 colonies was 2.5 million. (The size of a large CITY.) Big difference. Big.
(Yes. Verified. 2.5 million max. Imagine that. 2.5 million. Source: Wiki.)
In the end, it is the data sets on health and wellbeing, safety and security, violence, war and homicide, etc... that tell the story... not the day to day social media (much of which as you know is propaganda). And over a time scale of decades - at least as far as the HUMAN animal is concerned - these are trending favorably / positively.
Is the population of our country just right? Is it too high or too low? Could you imagine our population just doubled at 680 million (let alone raised times ten)? with, say, only half the present Federal regulation? Would that be realistic? given our varied human nature?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirteen_Colonies
2.4 million people max distributed across 13 states... imagine that.
Imagine the freedom that comes from that. Imagine how unnecessary gov rules and regulations were under THAT condition.
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kattz
climber
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Jul 27, 2016 - 08:11am PT
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I'll vote for Trump, Andrzej.
No need for your laughable propaganda and cowardly liberal agenda fear mongering--I did half of my life in totalitarian regimen (the one that had controlled YOUR country), by the way, USSR -- the only totalitarian and destructive force in the US is the Liberals and they must be stopped. People like you will not take my freedoms away.
Nope, we won't let you take our freedoms away.
Andrzej, you live a sheltered and somewhat privileged life of typical Bay Area liberal.....hahahaha....but luckily even in Bay area, not everyone is brainwashed ninnie from the land ruled by unicorns, pokemons, or whatever rules that fake world you live in.
I see you're not back in Poland.. Why not? It's so liberal now. Oh wait, it's not so good there, after totalitarian regimen had left and, you have to seek decent work in the US.
A few liberated Poles now wash dishes and dig ditches in Europe living in tents soaked by rain. That's what you get, once totalitarian regimen had left. That's what libs get you.
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overwatch
climber
Arizona
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Jul 27, 2016 - 08:15am PT
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Nice rant over there on the locked thread, Radical. Welcome back from lurker town.
Seems to be some house-cleaning going on around here is this one next?
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kattz
climber
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Jul 27, 2016 - 08:18am PT
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Be responsible, vote TRUMP!
Save this county.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Jul 27, 2016 - 08:29am PT
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More regulation is necessarily the price we have to pay for these (over) population numbers. We simply cannot have it both ways. Basic ecology. Basic politics, too (or it should be).
Today we are letting agencies run by unelected officials enact regulations which are the equivalent of law. And these agencies can also decide on how the regulations will be enforced, and we the people have no say in the process. You’re willing to trust these agencies not to act on the basis of cronyism or corruption? To favor one group or cause over another?
I’m of the opinion that regulations imposed by government should be questioned. I would go so far as to say that it is our responsibility as citizens in a Democratic Republic to do so on behalf of ourselves and those who will inherit the nation as we leave it.
But then I’m the guy who drove around with the “Question Authority” sticker on my bumper in 1980.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Jul 27, 2016 - 08:36am PT
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and we the people have no say in the process.
I'm not so sure this is true.
I’m of the opinion that regulations imposed by government should be questioned. I would go so far as to say that it is our responsibility as citizens in a Democratic Republic to do so on behalf of ourselves and those who will inherit the nation as we leave it.
I agree with this.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Jul 27, 2016 - 08:40am PT
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Today we are letting agencies run by unelected officials enact regulations which are the equivalent of law. And these agencies can also decide on how the regulations will be enforced, and we the people have no say in the process. You’re willing to trust these agencies not to act on the basis of cronyism or corruption? To favor one group or cause over another?
I’m of the opinion that regulations imposed by government should be questioned. I would go so far as to say that it is our responsibility as citizens in a Democratic Republic to do so on behalf of ourselves and those who will inherit the nation as we leave it.
But then I’m the guy who drove around with the “Question Authority” sticker on my bumper in 1980.
There you have it....
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Jul 27, 2016 - 08:40am PT
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Look out ..... this one will be locked soon.
Moose... remember not all of us see things the same way that you do.
and we should not...
Remember.... we get a secret ballot.
good one Kris, keep up with the sensible posting.
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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Jul 27, 2016 - 09:03am PT
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Moose,
The American Conservatives here were raised on BS racist John Wayne Westerns and McCarthyism Propaganda. They have been hiding under their desks since childhood. They are cowardice and ignorance defined.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Jul 27, 2016 - 09:08am PT
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The centralized federal government is running amok? regulation is out of control?
Good points
good one Kris, keep up with the sensible posting.
These are good points? In the context of 340 million apish hominids? oh please.
Under which system and under whose structure and guidance could do better?
Maybe you'd like to see our national parks under less regulation.
Maybe you'd like to see our banking systems under less regulation.
Maybe you'd like to see our foods and drugs under less regulation.
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10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
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Jul 27, 2016 - 09:14am PT
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I overheard a conversation where one guy was saying that ISIS was the biggest threat to the United States. Personally, I don't walk out the door everyday thinking that ISÍS is going to kill me. Should I?
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Jul 27, 2016 - 09:14am PT
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Locked up the other thread, eh? Not surprising. Can't blame CMac & co for trying to keep this site & forum focused on their primary vision.
Multiple political threads detract from that vision. I wonder if the Politipocalypse thread would have remained unlocked if this thread hadn't been started?
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Jul 27, 2016 - 09:17am PT
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They probably locked it because they too got tired of looking at the misspelled thread title.
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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Jul 27, 2016 - 09:27am PT
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Hey Kris,
I'm drooling over your article in California Climber Magazine.
The truth is that we need more authority (experts not authoritarianism), more progress, more participatory government, more meritocratic government by the people. It sounds like Social Democracy to me but labels are flawed.
The capitalist ideal favors financial transactions over smart planning and unified vision. So we'll keep heaving and thrutching through economic and social crashes until we find humility and do the important work.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Jul 27, 2016 - 09:29am PT
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This is as old as the hills, but worth repeating:
"Democracy: Two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Republic: A Democracy where two hundred wolves and one hundred lambs elect two wolves and one lamb as their representatives to vote on what to have for lunch.
Constitutional Republic: A Republic with a Constitution guaranteeing that lamb is not on the lunch menu. Eventually the Supreme Court rules - five wolves to four lambs - that mutton is not the same as lamb."
Hillary proposes to nominate the fifth wolf to the Court.
John
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Jul 27, 2016 - 09:33am PT
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Funny...Radical's last post on the other thread rants about how stooooopid these threads are, and how everyone who participates in them is a pathetic tard....
...then he makes a political statement, and posts a link to a Fox News page.
Yeah, that's consistent.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Jul 27, 2016 - 09:35am PT
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The capitalist ideal favors financial transactions over smart planning and unified vision.
I respectfully disagree. The capitalist ideal is to have the actors affected doing the planning to execute their own vision, rather than centralized bureaucrats doing the planning to suit their vision.
HFCS's argument that more regulation is the price we must pay for more people assumes that the marginal cost of those extra regulations is less than their marginal benefit. Kris's (and my) argument is that this is neither theoretically nor empirically clear. Moreover, by placing as much authority as we have now in the hands of the bureaucrats, we have drastically increased the transactions costs of changing a bad decision. Even if we elected a Republican congress with 70% majorities in the House and Senate, and a Republican presidient, it would take years of litigation to undo the regulations already in place.
John
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