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Majid_S
Mountain climber
Karkoekstan
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May 25, 2016 - 11:38pm PT
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I am training a family member to go on Mars
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jonnyrig
climber
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May 26, 2016 - 04:05am PT
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Lockheed-Martian?
Sounds like mountain-climbing.
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G_Gnome
Trad climber
Cali
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Nov 17, 2016 - 03:10pm PT
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Yeah, it is the quest for more resources, not land to settle per se, that is driving us to get into space. In this respect, being above Mars is better than being on Mars.
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pb
Sport climber
Sonora Ca
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Dec 17, 2016 - 09:04am PT
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im picturing a cargo cult with boom boxes and tube sox
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Dec 17, 2016 - 12:49pm PT
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we’re on the verge of one of the most significant events in human history...
Reason enough to go? Yes.
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chainsaw
Trad climber
CA
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Dec 17, 2016 - 01:54pm PT
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When the dreamers want to have a good time, they go out and buy a new Mustang convertible. They forget that they owe rent, taxes, mortgage payments, interest, child support, retirement, tuition, healthcare, fire protection, resource protection, defense, law enforcement, education, health research, agriculture, disability, transportation, you know what Im talking about. The proposal on the table is that the government provide grant money to a private contractor for most of the cost, a bloated pork barrel..... Noone can argue that the space program hasnt yielded great advances for mankind. But we can only reach for such dreams when we can afford it. When the National debt is paid off and we are flush, then we can talk about burdening the taxpayers with another Venus Rocket (Space Merchants).
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 17, 2016 - 04:26pm PT
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The NewSpace corporations such as SpaceX and Orbital ATK have altered the way in which the Guvement pays for these projects. The 2 major aerospace contractors have their mouths deep in the trough at taxpayer expense by way of Cost Plus accounting contracts. In other words when the Air Force, marines, and Navy want that new strike fighter, or multirole boondoggle (F 35), Lockheed Martin comes up with a proposal on a cost-plus basis; the actual cost calculated by monitoring every step along the way, then receiving a decent profit margin added on at the end. Lockheed Martin employs approximately 2000 on the actual hardware construction, and 9000 accountants and cost managers. The presence of all this midlevel management and step by step accounting and related cost doesn't matter; the profit simply reflects the overhead plus a fixed rate of profit based on the total costs. No effing wonder that an F 35 costs the taxpayers $325 Million each! Or, as Robert Zubrin (who worked for Lockheed Martin for many years) puts it, the biggest item that the company sells is OVERHEAD!
The other side of this nightmarish procurement process is what SpaceX and Orbitl ATK charge: a fixed price based on the best cost control possible. The launch of a SpaceX Falcon 9 to orbit a communications satellite is approximately $65 Million, or about one third to half what either Boeing or Lockheed Martin would charge. This number is due to shrink, since reuse and recycling the most expensive component of the system, the first stage booster, is now fait accomplai.
All of this said, I'm not a great fan of the Mars space station due to prolonged exposure of the astronauts to microgravity and cosmic radiation. Neither am I a fan of big aerospace practices of cost plus accounting programs, as this is the major source of cost overruns. SpaceX IS going to Mars, and NASA can come along for the ride if they want to pony up some cash.
Added as a P.S. in edit mode: "The biggest thing the ULA (United Launch Alliance= Boeing and Lockheed-Martin) have to sell is OVERHEAD." Quoted from Dr. Robert Zubrin in his book "Entering Space."
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