Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
| Messages 1 - 28 of total 28 in this topic |
Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
|
|
|
Topic Author's Original Post - May 19, 2016 - 04:06pm PT
|
Lockheed-Martin, the leading aerospace giant, announced a proposal today to send a 6 astronaut team to an orbiting "base camp" around Mars by 2028. This accelerates the potential for planetary exploration from the 2040's to the late 2020's. The proposal has been one of the keys of Buzz Aldrin's proposed plan for exploration and settling the Red Planet described in his book, Mission to Mars; My Vision for Space Exploration.
The major focus of the proposed plan is to allow direct control of robotic planetary explorers and also allow the possibility of landings on the 2 Martian satellites, Phobos and Deimos for sample retrieval and onboard analysis. This could possibly dovetail into the SpaceX plans for humans ON Mars by 2025, and could conceivably become a permanent orbiting space lab.
No photos available at this time.
This has not been approved by NASA, but is simply a proposal for consideration and a real use for the undertasked SLS (Space Launch System).
|
|
mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
|
|
|
May 19, 2016 - 04:59pm PT
|
Rodger, how are those science friction boots working out for ya?
Over. :0)
edit: Was that one of your cattle that jumped over the moon in the nursery rhyme?
|
|
Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
|
|
|
May 19, 2016 - 05:09pm PT
|
$$$,$$$,$$$,$$$,$$$,$$$,$$$ for nothing.
Maybe you should go back in time 525 years, and tell Ferdinand and Isabella to stop dicking around with that stupid Chris Columbus guy, and spend their money on something worthwhile.
|
|
Splater
climber
Grey Matter
|
|
|
May 19, 2016 - 05:17pm PT
|
Improving Planet Earth is likely a bigger concern for most people's pocketbooks.
So unless Buzz or China has the $$$$,
unmanned missions are far more worthwhile.
Look at how many unmanned drones are available today.
|
|
Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
|
|
May 19, 2016 - 05:33pm PT
|
Sorry Dingus, the natives extirpated more pivotal species and burned down the great forest turning it into the great plains (granted it took them longer), and if you don't think the space race gave us much of our advanced technology then to the cave with you!
|
|
zBrown
Ice climber
|
|
|
May 19, 2016 - 05:34pm PT
|
I do not understand why they just don't use that Star Trek teleporter thing.
Except that they (whoever they are) do not have a station on Mars.
Does space exist in a vacuum?
|
|
BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
|
|
|
May 19, 2016 - 06:38pm PT
|
What about instead of seeding human's on Mars,
We seed the planet to grow it's own life? Our scientist say they have a model for how Earth was "Formed".. First rock, then water, add light and heat and you get life!
Maybe when our sea-levels start rising we start sending water rockets to Mars, along with some free algae and maybe even some polliwogs. Heck we might be able to bump up Mars' evolution by a few billion yrs ;)
|
|
zBrown
Ice climber
|
|
|
May 19, 2016 - 06:55pm PT
|
Ride the tube to Mars. Just wait till the tube gets into a full vacuum or vice versa
The idea is, passenger pods will travel inside tubes under a partial vacuum, and will be accelerated to blistering speeds using magnets. A set of fans attached to the pods will allow the train to rest on a cushion of air. The system would be powered by solar panels along the length of the tube.
I can see 'em lining up now.
|
|
jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
|
|
|
May 19, 2016 - 09:56pm PT
|
Oh, sorry. I thought you wrote Mars Obit.
Carry on.
|
|
Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - May 20, 2016 - 07:12am PT
|
Even though the present Martian atmosphere is very thin (~ 1 % as dense as our sea level density), it does provide some measure of cosmic radiation protection, as does being in a planetary surface. The cosmic radiation is attenuated by some 55% by being on the surface, as opposed to the orbiting laboratory proposed my Lockheed-Martin. The physiological effects of bone decalcification through long microgravity exposure have not been adequately addressed, either.
This program could be accomplished within the existing NASA budget, however. It seems to me to represent a dead-end program, rather than a stepping stone to surface exploration; hence an expensive diversionary project from actual long term goal. My "guesstimate" for this project is in the range of $15 Billion expended over 12 years, which represents less than 10% of the NASA budget, annually. This is a $1.25 Billion a year program.
I see this as a relatively poor investment of both time and technology when compared to the SpaceX/Zubrin approach. It seems to be a way of utilizing the NASA designed and Lockheed-Martin constructed Orion crew capsule in combination with the Space Launch System (SLS). This is currently being reviewed by the U.S. House of Representatives Subcommittee on Space.
If this is done at all, it should be done in parallel with a Mars Landing program being planned at SpaceX based on the Mars Semi-Direct mission architecture.
|
|
brotherbbock
climber
Alta Loma, CA
|
|
|
May 20, 2016 - 07:35am PT
|
Send Klimmer...
This will never happen for him or anyone.
The nephilim hidden in the ark on the moon will intervene and stop this. It's G--ds will to have us all cluster fukn on this planet alone.
|
|
Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - May 21, 2016 - 07:39am PT
|
I've seen very few arguments against this proposal that have been at all rational, and most have been steeped in emotional preconceptions that reflect personal viewpoints.
I'd much rather my tax dollars be spent here than on next-to-worthless F 35 Multirole Combat aircraft at $325 Million apiece. The funding for this Mars Orbiter would be more than covered by a reduction in acquisition of 4 F 35s per year, or $1.3 Billion. As the politicos in Washington say about your money and mine for this--chump change. As things presently stand, the current NASA budget would be able to cover the annual expenses of this proposal.
This project seems to be a rational way of getting something out of the now defunct Constellation Project "Orion" spaceship/capsule, and the Ares heavy lift booster system morphed into the SLS, or Space launch System. As I stated earlier, I still have unaddressed concerns regarding the total time spent in deep space microgravity environment, w/r bone decalcification and muscular atrophy.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
May 21, 2016 - 07:46am PT
|
So stoopid.
You can easily go to any planet without mechanical means.
You modern fools have no good brain and just plain waste everyone's time and money.
You mismanage the the entire humanity due to your poor fund of brainwashed knowledge .....
|
|
rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
|
|
|
May 21, 2016 - 08:04am PT
|
The unaddressed concerns of too much time spent in deep space , muscle atrophy , and keyboard drooling mimics posting on supertopo 24/7 ...
|
|
crankster
Trad climber
No. Tahoe
|
|
|
May 21, 2016 - 08:32am PT
|
You can easily go to any planet without mechanical means.
Now we know the truth for certain. I knew there had to be an expaination.
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
|
|
|
May 21, 2016 - 09:03am PT
|
I'd much rather my tax dollars be spent here than on next-to-worthless F 35 Multirole Combat aircraft at $325 Million apiece. The funding for this Mars Orbiter would be more than covered by a reduction in acquisition of 4 F 35s per year, or $1.3 Billion. As the politicos in Washington say about your money and mine for this--chump change. As things presently stand, the current NASA budget would be able to cover the annual expenses of this proposal.
Well, the F-35 is a POS anyway. The F-22 was a way better investment for our military. WAAAYYYYY most costly than the F-35, but exponentially deadlier in combat. The F-35 was a way for us to sell planes to NATO friends.
This project seems to be a rational way of getting something out of the now defunct Constellation Project "Orion" spaceship/capsule, and the Ares heavy lift booster system morphed into the SLS, or Space launch System. As I stated earlier, I still have unaddressed concerns regarding the total time spent in deep space microgravity environment, w/r bone decalcification and muscular atrophy.
There's a solution. And it will be found. That is the spirit of America. At least it used to be.
|
|
Majid_S
Mountain climber
Karkoekstan
|
|
|
May 25, 2016 - 11:38pm PT
|
I am training a family member to go on Mars
|
|
jonnyrig
climber
|
|
|
May 26, 2016 - 04:05am PT
|
Lockheed-Martian?
Sounds like mountain-climbing.
|
|
G_Gnome
Trad climber
Cali
|
|
|
Nov 17, 2016 - 03:10pm PT
|
Yeah, it is the quest for more resources, not land to settle per se, that is driving us to get into space. In this respect, being above Mars is better than being on Mars.
|
|
pb
Sport climber
Sonora Ca
|
|
|
Dec 17, 2016 - 09:04am PT
|
im picturing a cargo cult with boom boxes and tube sox
|
|
High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
|
|
|
Dec 17, 2016 - 12:49pm PT
|
we’re on the verge of one of the most significant events in human history...
Reason enough to go? Yes.
|
|
chainsaw
Trad climber
CA
|
|
|
Dec 17, 2016 - 01:54pm PT
|
When the dreamers want to have a good time, they go out and buy a new Mustang convertible. They forget that they owe rent, taxes, mortgage payments, interest, child support, retirement, tuition, healthcare, fire protection, resource protection, defense, law enforcement, education, health research, agriculture, disability, transportation, you know what Im talking about. The proposal on the table is that the government provide grant money to a private contractor for most of the cost, a bloated pork barrel..... Noone can argue that the space program hasnt yielded great advances for mankind. But we can only reach for such dreams when we can afford it. When the National debt is paid off and we are flush, then we can talk about burdening the taxpayers with another Venus Rocket (Space Merchants).
|
|
Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 17, 2016 - 04:26pm PT
|
The NewSpace corporations such as SpaceX and Orbital ATK have altered the way in which the Guvement pays for these projects. The 2 major aerospace contractors have their mouths deep in the trough at taxpayer expense by way of Cost Plus accounting contracts. In other words when the Air Force, marines, and Navy want that new strike fighter, or multirole boondoggle (F 35), Lockheed Martin comes up with a proposal on a cost-plus basis; the actual cost calculated by monitoring every step along the way, then receiving a decent profit margin added on at the end. Lockheed Martin employs approximately 2000 on the actual hardware construction, and 9000 accountants and cost managers. The presence of all this midlevel management and step by step accounting and related cost doesn't matter; the profit simply reflects the overhead plus a fixed rate of profit based on the total costs. No effing wonder that an F 35 costs the taxpayers $325 Million each! Or, as Robert Zubrin (who worked for Lockheed Martin for many years) puts it, the biggest item that the company sells is OVERHEAD!
The other side of this nightmarish procurement process is what SpaceX and Orbitl ATK charge: a fixed price based on the best cost control possible. The launch of a SpaceX Falcon 9 to orbit a communications satellite is approximately $65 Million, or about one third to half what either Boeing or Lockheed Martin would charge. This number is due to shrink, since reuse and recycling the most expensive component of the system, the first stage booster, is now fait accomplai.
All of this said, I'm not a great fan of the Mars space station due to prolonged exposure of the astronauts to microgravity and cosmic radiation. Neither am I a fan of big aerospace practices of cost plus accounting programs, as this is the major source of cost overruns. SpaceX IS going to Mars, and NASA can come along for the ride if they want to pony up some cash.
Added as a P.S. in edit mode: "The biggest thing the ULA (United Launch Alliance= Boeing and Lockheed-Martin) have to sell is OVERHEAD." Quoted from Dr. Robert Zubrin in his book "Entering Space."
|
|
| Messages 1 - 28 of total 28 in this topic |
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!