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Ksolem
Trad climber
LA, Ca
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Nov 12, 2006 - 10:45am PT
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Yikes. I had no idea I was going to start someting when I mentioned the idea in the first place. Like I said in the first place, it is a cheap trick. That said, it was taught to me by one the revered grand old masters. You've never gotten in over your head and had to save your bacon?
(Al, if you were to go snoopin' under my bolt hangers you woudn't find a bunch of bat hook holes, I promise.)
Sorry I mentioned it...
Cheers Dude,
KS
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aldude
climber
Monument Manor
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Nov 12, 2006 - 12:28pm PT
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No worries guys, not a hater....just tryin to stir the pot for deli style discourse. That's the great thing about our sport w/no rules - what other athletic pursuit can boast such lively debate?
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Nov 12, 2006 - 12:35pm PT
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Gladiators?
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snooky
climber
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Nov 12, 2006 - 12:35pm PT
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"I tried hating every body who didn't do things in "good style". Didn't get me anywere. Ended up not liking people who were otherwise my friends and good people. I miss some of them now."
Good to see someone with such honesty. The problem seems to be some people can't be happy with their own efforts and try everything possible to make others play by their rules. This is close to the current neo-fascist way of the Bush administration, "..either you are with us or you are with the terrorists." When I first started to climb in the mid eighties at Stoney Point Bob Kamps would show up and start talking about ethics and it was interesting. But if this is the same aldude I think this is he talks about ethics in this narrow manner that seems a little much. If I remember correctly it was John Bacher that chopped Randy Leavits routes out at Josh and them torched a yucca and really made a mess. Well even if those climbs had glue and rap bolts etc. so what. The Lighting Bolt hold has glue in camp 4, is someone going to chop that? Don't think so. What about Wheat Thin, rap bolts?? I just remember everyone at Stony talking about Al and John Bacher as the ones that pounded over the hangers on the Ron Kauk climb Crossroads in the Valley and how lame that was. So ablegabel take the ethics lecture about good and bad style from Al with a grain or two of salt because his style along with a few select friends of his have been pretty ugly over the years. There are no "rules" for climbing and those that tend to think so end up looking like fools.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Nov 12, 2006 - 01:02pm PT
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Eric is one of the most respectful people I know, but he doesn't put up with pretentious bullsh#t...
I can attest that he is foremost in search of good lines to do in good style. His motto, "just because you can doesn't mean you should" speaks volumes.
When on a line, he seeks out natural pro first, and he is highly innovative, I've learned a lot from cleaning his leads. But he also realizes that not all climbers will pro like him, so a bolt will go in from time to time, if the line seems worth someone else going up. Often this decision will be reached after the FA, and we go back an bolt the line, on lead mostly, from stance mostly, using hooks, or the second doing it... usually in that order. The idea is not to leave a "X" rated climb on something worth doing. Not everything is worth doing again.
On our FA of "A Walk In The Park" Eric debated the possibility of needing the bolt kit. In the end we left it, as much because of its extra weight as for the preservation of the adventurous nature of the first ascent we were attempting. The bolt kit would probably guarentee the line would go, but we did away with that guarentee simply because the style of the climb would have been compromised. The climb "vision" that Eric had was in the style of Brower and the original pioneers of Valley routes: you spy a natural passage from the floor to the rim and you go for it.
I have a huge amount of respect for Eric's style and ethic. As I've said before, I am proud to be asked to accompany him on his many adventures.
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Neil
Gym climber
Here and there
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Nov 12, 2006 - 01:16pm PT
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ALdude/Blitzo...
BRD?
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aldude
climber
Monument Manor
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Nov 12, 2006 - 01:34pm PT
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snooky,..whoever you are...you're wrong about me and John(Crossroads). But you are correct about the passionate opinions generated by rap-bolting and crossing of lines that exsisted in the late 80s. Apparently the Southern Belle team also shared that passion and were confronted in the parking lot with an equally passionately violent response from "the other side"!! I look back on those days and kind of shake my head in disbelief. We lost the style war,but man we were livin!!!
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snooky
climber
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Nov 12, 2006 - 01:37pm PT
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The other side? Who was that?? What violence are you talking about? AND YOU ARE LYING ABOUT CROSSROADS.
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snooky
climber
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Nov 12, 2006 - 02:00pm PT
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Al, if you also say you don't know who vandalized Crossroads you are lying. Crossroads crossed the Bacher line and you think anyone believes John has nothing to do with that mess, I saw those flattened hangers this season and you guy are pathetic. At least you should go clean up the mess you made, it stands as a monument of stupidity to have left those flattened hangers and you guys say that rap bolting is wrong. Well,.... leaving a mess like you did is pitiful. Also there is a route in the Meadows at one of the Whizz Domes that you idiots left in the same ugly state and you think people believe you care about the rock? You chumps just care about being megalomaniacs. Someday if you have time you should clean that mess up but you're cowards and can't admit to those dirty deeds.
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aldude
climber
Monument Manor
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Nov 12, 2006 - 02:30pm PT
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I'm not going to engage in a "he said - she said" online with an anonymous poster. If your calling me a liar identify yourself and be prepared to prove it !! Maybe you should take your anger and accusations over to Johns' and punch him out if it makes you feel better.
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Mimi
climber
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Nov 12, 2006 - 02:37pm PT
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My thoughts exactly. If you really want this discussion to go somewhere, honesty is the best policy. And that includes providing your real name if you're going to call someone a coward and a liar. Calling JB a coward is laughable.
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snooky
climber
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Nov 12, 2006 - 02:38pm PT
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I knew you were a coward. Punch John? I have zero violent tendencies and that is a pathetic distraction from the guilt you obviously have about chopping and vandalizing. You still haven't said who the "other side" was and what kind of violence went on, would love the story, or lies. You seem to respond to many annon-posters here so what is the problem?? Oh yeah, you got caught lying, that must be it.
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Jello
Social climber
No Ut
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Nov 12, 2006 - 02:42pm PT
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snooky- weak, weak, weak.............
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Chicken Skinner
Trad climber
Yosemite
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 12, 2006 - 03:02pm PT
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I agree with Jello.
Ken
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand, Man.....
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Nov 12, 2006 - 03:10pm PT
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yeah Brent, oh... I mean Snooky
This is weaker than when you were going to call the INS on Evo!
Why would anyone vandalise the only good Cafe in Josh anyway?
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WBraun
climber
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Nov 12, 2006 - 04:28pm PT
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Not me .....
But from reading snooky's responses here he seems to know a lot about some of the "behind the scenes incidents" about some of these events.
I could if I wanted to, tear this whole bolt shitfest apart with what I know.
I won't, not yet, maybe in the future sometime, who knows?
Get me pissed off enough in a bad direction and I'll really tell some sh#t about this f'cked up bolt chopping hypocrisy and their major players!
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand, Man.....
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Nov 12, 2006 - 04:37pm PT
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Werner you big tease!
Me and you pal... let's blow the lid off the 'mutha..... all our secrets OUT!
Unless someone sends us each $5.00 RIGHT NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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WBraun
climber
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Nov 12, 2006 - 05:18pm PT
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Yeah Russ, hehehe .....
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snooky
climber
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Nov 12, 2006 - 07:03pm PT
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"Calling JB a coward is laughable." Mimi
Never called him a coward regarding his climbing, the issue is all the bolts he chopped but never telling the truth about what happened.
"Apparently the Southern Belle team also shared that passion and were confronted in the parking lot with an equally passionately violent response from "the other side"!!"
aldude
One of the team was Coz correct? Well look what he said about Todd Skinner just recently in this forum:
"He loved climbing, and to climb free on big walls, a lot of cowards called him names, but none of them where half the man he was. He had the balls to say what he felt, and the guts to push the limits of popular thought. He was a visionary, and despite what many people may think, we all liked him back in the day."
A lot of cowards....aldude??? Sounds like Cosgrove is calling you a coward.
Hey Werner, what would it take to get you really pissed because I would love to hear the stories.
Brent
Oh, I have heard about some of the chopping from Joe Hedge when I still lived in LA, he said there was all kinds of vandalism. He mentioned that stuff at the gym on a regular basis.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Nov 12, 2006 - 11:23pm PT
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Man I luv these bolting dust ups!
Way better than a bona fide c*#k fight or reality TV, not quite as good as a tuff girl cat fight.
J Hedge might sniff this out and vent some steamy steam...
Anyhow, I sure do enjoy a well crafted trad bolt route.
Chiloe's pictures upthread really capture the feel.
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