ROCKFALL - El Cap - East Ledges Descent

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List

This thread has been locked

Messages 21 - 40 of total 85 in this topic

<< First | < Previous | Show All | Next > | Last >>

clinker

Trad climber

Santa Cruz, California

Mar 23, 2016 - 03:12pm PT

Fixed lines are embarrassing, unless it is pouring.

ECF

Big Wall climber

Ridgway CO

Mar 23, 2016 - 03:26pm PT

Well, if you are going to fix it permanently for rappel, why not get a spool and fix it in a single run?

Why not a zip line all the way to the showers at housekeeping camp?

Slim Bob

Trad climber

Mar 23, 2016 - 03:29pm PT

I descended East Ledges on the afternoon of the 20th and there was clearly fresh rockfall. Fresh as in still dust on top of rocks. I had heard rockfall around 11am that morning while climbing the Nose, but never saw a cloud from where I thought it was from (near Middle.)

On the topic of fixed lines:
East ledges is safer and better for the Yosemite climbing community if it has fixed ropes. Dissent if you will but this has become the standard over the past couple decades. Why must everyone oppose organization to get decent fixed lines?? seems like a win win... people can jug the top to support their friends topping out or next wall project, Honnold can hand over hand after he solos the west face, and everyone can save on rope wear and/or pulling rocks down with their rope. Arguing and hate does NOTHING for anyone you trolls! Organizing and action, on the other hand, positively impacts all those that climb in the park!

NutAgain!

Trad climber

South Pasadena, CA

Mar 23, 2016 - 03:43pm PT

Why not a zip line all the way to the showers at housekeeping camp?

That would actually be pretty cool. Or at least to Manure Pile.

August West

Trad climber

Where the wind blows strange

Mar 23, 2016 - 03:46pm PT

I'm not opposed to fixed lines in some situations, but they can cause issues when left in place to long. My biggest fiasco on a fixed line was coming down East Ledges (many years ago). About 10 feet from the ground the sheath completely separated from the core. Part of the sheath jammed into my rap device. I had a knife with me, but it was a huge pain to deal with. I actually contemplated just cutting the rope and dropping to ground but the landing was a little iffy.

A static line would have been nicer than the old lead rope or maybe modern ropes wouldn't come apart in the same way.

Mungeclimber

Trad climber

Nothing creative to say

Mar 23, 2016 - 05:20pm PT

I like the fixed lines, primarily so that SAR can ascend quickly and efficiently when they need to perform recon for rescues.

Most of those guys can probably solo the EL Route, but a fixed line is probably faster.

I defer to SAR judgment.

BruceHildenbrand

Social climber

Mountain View/Boulder

Mar 23, 2016 - 11:27pm PT

The 5.9 pitch on the East Ledges route is really slick and insecure. The fixed lines that Clint and I brought down a few years back were put up there by climbers who were working to free the upper pitches of El Cap routes such as the Salathe headwall.

cuvvy

Sport climber

arkansas

Mar 23, 2016 - 11:35pm PT

I cant say as Ive ever rappeled anything but a few pitches, but I dont understand why you would want to trust rope that has been exposed to the elements like that. I didnt find it very difficult to thread the ropes at each belay? Why would the parks want to have equipment like that littering the landscape? All the stories and posts about Yosemite as a bastion of ethics.

Flip Flop

climber

Earth Planet, Universe

Mar 24, 2016 - 02:19am PT

Climbing is climbing. Roads and busses and helicopters and filming crews and climbing rangers on the bridge, formerly named lodges and occupying hippies, crashed planes and exploded jackasses. The Sierra is plenty hammered and if you want to fight to protect it,
Then.Actually.F*#king.Do.Something. The authoritarians here are not authorities. The authorities are managing. The authoritarians are yelling punishment from their fat assed chairs. There are big differences which you will see examples of in

3...2...1....

justthemaid

climber

Jim Henson's Basement

Mar 24, 2016 - 06:59am PT

Good post Mike.

PS: Begging for money to replace those ropes in this thread does seem particularly tasteless.

FrankZappa

Trad climber

Hankster's crew

Mar 24, 2016 - 07:06am PT

The regression in climbing ethics/fixed hardware is sad. Nobody needs fixed ropes on the east ledges.
All I hear about Yosemite these days is how crowded everything is. If you want to make it more crowded, just add more fixed lines and bolts, make everything easier and more convenient, and they will come.

Begging for money to replace those ropes in this thread does seem particularly tasteless.

And to add stupid. Basically advertising that you're breaking the rules. Kind of amazing Eric hasn't been cited.

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Mar 24, 2016 - 08:28am PT

I thought fixed lines, Half Dumb cables excepted, were against Park Service regs?
If they have the time and budget to go around putting up new signs to show off their
stupidity then they should have the time to enforce their own rules.

JLP

Social climber

The internet

Mar 24, 2016 - 08:40am PT

Do any of you climb?

couchmaster

climber

Mar 24, 2016 - 08:50am PT

^^^Not as good as we argue JLP:-) (ie, see any political thread or even a Southern Belle thread where it goes on for over 3000 near identical posts.)

I'd pitch leaving the fixed mank cough ROPES cough on the ground but figure I get there once a year in a good year, the locals (like the YOSAR volunteers) can figure this one out on their own without my loud mouth interjecting things I don't have much of a stake in.

'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber

like Ontario, Canada, eh?

Mar 24, 2016 - 09:53am PT

When Lincoln Else was the Climbing Ranger, he spoke of not necessarily enforcing the "Letter" of the law, but rather the "Spirit" of the law.

An example is the law that states that any gear left on the wall unattended for more than 24 hours is considered abandoned. But he said to me, "We're not going to cut your ropes down if they're up there for a week or two. We understand that you might fix on the first weekend, and then blast on the next weekend." So this was an example of enforcing the spirit, not the letter, of the law. This seems reasonable to all and remains the de facto situation.

Obviously the case of Chongo - who had his ropes fixed on Sea of Dreams for a year and a half - overdid it. He was charged with abandonment of gear, but acquitted on a technicality because no ranger had observed his gear unattended for a period of 24 continuous hours. They saw it in May, and came back in June and charged him. [It was pretty funny, especially the prosecutor holding up the bucket lid with the huge letters "CHONG" written on top. The letters were too large to accommodate the final O, she said]

So there is an example where Rangers enforced the spirit, not the letter, of the law.

What of the fixed ropes on the East Ledges? I love them! They make things a lot easier for folks to get up and down the Captain. They are in constant use. Were it not for the fixed ropes, there would be countless bottlenecks here. Furthermore, the descent would be less safe using one's own ropes in a pulldown situation because of:

possibility of rappelling off the end of the rope [two deaths in the last month this way]

dislodged rocks with ropes flying around all the time

people getting hit in the eye by the ends of the ropes. That crack you hear is the sound of the end of the rope breaking the sound barrier. It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye

Yes, the ropes do get worn and abraded, but they are in constant use and are checked constantly. An obvious problem would be in this case - rockfall - and when you are ascending them, not rapping them.

I love the fixed ropes on the East Ledges. I hope they stay. If I had any used ropes I would donate them to the cause.

Ultimately, though - on a toujours le choix.

If you don't like them, you can go cut them down.

Peter Zabrok
Ontario, Canada, eh?

BruceHildenbrand

Social climber

Mountain View/Boulder

Mar 24, 2016 - 11:06am PT

Here's a link to Cheyne Lempe's blog post in 2012 about how he fixed up the East Ledges descent with 10mm fixed line he got from Edelrid.

http://cheynelempe.blogspot.com/2012/08/east-ledges-haircut.html

ECF

Big Wall climber

Ridgway CO

Mar 24, 2016 - 11:24am PT

The Canadian Assassin endorses violating park policy, what a shock...

For what ever horrendously misguided reason, new climbers look up to you Pete.
It is shameful that you do not take the high road on matters of ethics which could threaten access.

But you can just go into a booth and tell a guy who doesn't care, and all your sins are forgiven. How marvelous that must be for you, not to have an actual conscience.

I thought I had forgiven you, but you haven't changed.
Still the self righteous egotistical ass you've always been.