ROCKFALL - El Cap - East Ledges Descent

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ClimbingRanger

Trad climber

Yosemite, CA

Topic Author's Original Post - Mar 22, 2016 - 04:34pm PT

Hey folks... here's a heads up report on a recent rockfall on the East Ledges descent on El Cap. I will post some photos as soon as I can.

Here is a write up from one of the climbing rangers.

Sometime recently, most likely during the week of March 14, 2016, a rock fall occurred down the east ledges descent of El Capitan. The rockfall appears to have originated (somewhere) high above the first rappel station, cutting the first (fixed) rope, and continuing all the way down the gully below the standard rappel route for hundreds of yards. The climbers trail below the rappels has been essentially erased until the point the trail cuts east across the creek/gully below.

Here is a first hand account from the reporting party on 3/20/2016.

“Here are the only decent photos I took of the rockfall. We first noticed some loose rocks and some scarring in the gully about 50 feet above the start of the raps. One of the two ropes to start the raps was cut by rock fall and the other had a core shot. We took the larger part of the cut rope down with us. At the base of the raps we noticed what looked like the debris from a huge rockfall. The debris extended from the base of the raps down to where the trail cuts off into the woods. The rock fall took out the trail up until the point where it crosses the riverbed and goes into the woods.”

Anyone planning on descending via the east ledges is advised to use extra caution as there may be elevated rockfall hazard here. As per usual, any team planning on using this descent should have enough rope to properly rappel without the help of fixed lines which may have been left in place by other climbers.

We will provide more details as they come in. Stand by for photos.

Climb hard, be safe

Yosemite Climbing Management
http://www.climbingyosemite.com

clinker

Trad climber

Santa Cruz, California

Mar 22, 2016 - 04:53pm PT

The debris extended from the base of the raps down to where the trail cuts off into the woods. The rock fall took out the trail up until the point where it crosses the riverbed and goes into the woods.

There is this guy, Eric, who would like totally be into making us a new trail.

Thanks for the news.

Burt

Social climber

Angelus Oaks, Ca

Mar 22, 2016 - 04:55pm PT

woot!!!

Clint Cummins

Trad climber

SF Bay area, CA

Mar 22, 2016 - 05:32pm PT

(2009 photo - might be helpful for discussing locations)

Mountain climber

there and back again

Mar 22, 2016 - 05:51pm PT

Nice Clint,thanks

looks easy from here

climber

Ben Lomond, CA

Mar 22, 2016 - 08:48pm PT

I took this picture that caught that area the afternoon of Sunday the 20th from the top of Manure Pile Buttress. I think my cousin may be obscuring key features affected by the slide, but I figure I might as well throw it out in case it's helpful.

Matt's

climber

Mar 23, 2016 - 07:28am PT

Yes, we need new fixed lines-- how else will we toprope the salathe???

ECF

Big Wall climber

Ridgway CO

Mar 23, 2016 - 08:09am PT

Seriously?

Fixed ropes are against park policy.

Anything for a buck, eh Erik?

You disgust me.

Alpamayo

Trad climber

Davis, CA

Mar 23, 2016 - 08:14am PT

LOL...I may have had some differences with ES on the BOR thing...but I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that anyone who really opposes fixed lines on the east ledges descent probably hasn't been on El Cap in a LONG time.

ECF

Big Wall climber

Ridgway CO

Mar 23, 2016 - 08:20am PT

Let's hear your justification for violating park policy.

Rapping or jugging a fixed line of unknown providence is possibly the stupidest thing you can do with a harness on.

So what if it's been ten years since I've been to the valley.
The rules haven't changed.
Just the way some people break them.

Rollover

climber

Gross Vegas

Mar 23, 2016 - 08:35am PT

"We need new ropes!"
-Sloan
Who's we? Looking for handouts for a new rope?
Get the f*#k outta here with that shit!!
Get a real f*#king job that pays actual money,
then you wouldn't have to come here and beg from
people who actually work for money.

JEleazarian

Trad climber

Fresno CA

Mar 23, 2016 - 11:02am PT

Thanks for the info. I wonder if the frequency of rockfall has any relationship to the amount of precipitation. Given the rockfall of recent years, I rather doubt it, but I'd be interested in gstock's take on this.

It's funny about our unofficial fixed ropes. Every guide I read that mentions them has all of the appropriate disclaimers about their temporary, unofficial status, but I can't argue about their convenience. I've done most of the conventional approaches and descents before any fixed ropes were in place, as well as after, and I confess that I like their convenience, even though I know using them may not be my brightest move.

John

NutAgain!

Trad climber

South Pasadena, CA

Mar 23, 2016 - 11:59am PT

I think fixed ropes on East Ledges raps is ridiculous.

I'll admit I'm not a frequent traveler there, but this was the b.s. I encountered on one trip through there, which made it difficult to use my own ropes:

couchmaster

climber

Mar 23, 2016 - 12:08pm PT

There was no rockfall B4 the internet.

Mr_T

Trad climber

Northern California

Mar 23, 2016 - 12:15pm PT

When did every climber here suddenly care about park rules?

I'd think folks would flip there lids if they learned about climbers:
* illegal camping at the base of Half Dome,
* improper food storage while illegally camping at the base of half dome,
* smoking of weed while not legally storing food while illegally camping at the base of half dome,
* sneaking into showers at Curry after they were illegally smoking weed while not storing their food properly while illegally camping at the base of half dome.

JEleazarian

Trad climber

Fresno CA

Mar 23, 2016 - 12:15pm PT

NutAgain!, That's why I carry a knife with me. Shortly after I first started climbing in the Valley, a climber died rapping from Goodrich Pinnacle when the rappel sling broke. Ever since, I've always been wary of junk left to rot in the sun.

Don't worry - I haven't used the knife for belaying - yet.

John

BruceHildenbrand

Social climber

Mountain View/Boulder

Mar 23, 2016 - 01:04pm PT

If I remember correctly, Cheyne Lempe was the last person to perform a major upgrade to the fixed ropes on the East Ledges about 2-3 years ago. He installed static line for the rappels.

Clint Cummins and I removed a bunch of fixed rope from the 'eastern' descent route in 2009. The ropes were heavily faded and core shot and are now part of the Neptune Mountaineering Museum.

matty

Trad climber

under the sea

Mar 23, 2016 - 01:10pm PT

gotta cut dat tat!

'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber

like Ontario, Canada, eh?

Mar 23, 2016 - 02:23pm PT

Holy crap! Good thing it happened when nobody was on the ropes!! That place can be extremely busy during wall season. Yikes.

martygarrison

Trad climber

Washington DC

Mar 23, 2016 - 02:56pm PT

I always liked the fixed ropes coming off Freeblast. Didn't mind that short fixed rope on the Mirror Lake approach up the slabs on Half Dome either.

clinker

Trad climber

Santa Cruz, California

Mar 23, 2016 - 03:12pm PT

Fixed lines are embarrassing, unless it is pouring.

ECF

Big Wall climber

Ridgway CO

Mar 23, 2016 - 03:26pm PT

Well, if you are going to fix it permanently for rappel, why not get a spool and fix it in a single run?

Why not a zip line all the way to the showers at housekeeping camp?

Slim Bob

Trad climber

Mar 23, 2016 - 03:29pm PT

I descended East Ledges on the afternoon of the 20th and there was clearly fresh rockfall. Fresh as in still dust on top of rocks. I had heard rockfall around 11am that morning while climbing the Nose, but never saw a cloud from where I thought it was from (near Middle.)

On the topic of fixed lines:
East ledges is safer and better for the Yosemite climbing community if it has fixed ropes. Dissent if you will but this has become the standard over the past couple decades. Why must everyone oppose organization to get decent fixed lines?? seems like a win win... people can jug the top to support their friends topping out or next wall project, Honnold can hand over hand after he solos the west face, and everyone can save on rope wear and/or pulling rocks down with their rope. Arguing and hate does NOTHING for anyone you trolls! Organizing and action, on the other hand, positively impacts all those that climb in the park!

NutAgain!

Trad climber

South Pasadena, CA

Mar 23, 2016 - 03:43pm PT

Why not a zip line all the way to the showers at housekeeping camp?

That would actually be pretty cool. Or at least to Manure Pile.

August West

Trad climber

Where the wind blows strange

Mar 23, 2016 - 03:46pm PT

I'm not opposed to fixed lines in some situations, but they can cause issues when left in place to long. My biggest fiasco on a fixed line was coming down East Ledges (many years ago). About 10 feet from the ground the sheath completely separated from the core. Part of the sheath jammed into my rap device. I had a knife with me, but it was a huge pain to deal with. I actually contemplated just cutting the rope and dropping to ground but the landing was a little iffy.

A static line would have been nicer than the old lead rope or maybe modern ropes wouldn't come apart in the same way.

Mungeclimber

Trad climber

Nothing creative to say

Mar 23, 2016 - 05:20pm PT

I like the fixed lines, primarily so that SAR can ascend quickly and efficiently when they need to perform recon for rescues.

Most of those guys can probably solo the EL Route, but a fixed line is probably faster.

I defer to SAR judgment.

BruceHildenbrand

Social climber

Mountain View/Boulder

Mar 23, 2016 - 11:27pm PT

The 5.9 pitch on the East Ledges route is really slick and insecure. The fixed lines that Clint and I brought down a few years back were put up there by climbers who were working to free the upper pitches of El Cap routes such as the Salathe headwall.

cuvvy

Sport climber

arkansas

Mar 23, 2016 - 11:35pm PT

I cant say as Ive ever rappeled anything but a few pitches, but I dont understand why you would want to trust rope that has been exposed to the elements like that. I didnt find it very difficult to thread the ropes at each belay? Why would the parks want to have equipment like that littering the landscape? All the stories and posts about Yosemite as a bastion of ethics.

Flip Flop

climber

Earth Planet, Universe

Mar 24, 2016 - 02:19am PT

Climbing is climbing. Roads and busses and helicopters and filming crews and climbing rangers on the bridge, formerly named lodges and occupying hippies, crashed planes and exploded jackasses. The Sierra is plenty hammered and if you want to fight to protect it,
Then.Actually.F*#king.Do.Something. The authoritarians here are not authorities. The authorities are managing. The authoritarians are yelling punishment from their fat assed chairs. There are big differences which you will see examples of in

3...2...1....

justthemaid

climber

Jim Henson's Basement

Mar 24, 2016 - 06:59am PT

Good post Mike.

PS: Begging for money to replace those ropes in this thread does seem particularly tasteless.

FrankZappa

Trad climber

Hankster's crew

Mar 24, 2016 - 07:06am PT

The regression in climbing ethics/fixed hardware is sad. Nobody needs fixed ropes on the east ledges.
All I hear about Yosemite these days is how crowded everything is. If you want to make it more crowded, just add more fixed lines and bolts, make everything easier and more convenient, and they will come.

Begging for money to replace those ropes in this thread does seem particularly tasteless.

And to add stupid. Basically advertising that you're breaking the rules. Kind of amazing Eric hasn't been cited.

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Mar 24, 2016 - 08:28am PT

I thought fixed lines, Half Dumb cables excepted, were against Park Service regs?
If they have the time and budget to go around putting up new signs to show off their
stupidity then they should have the time to enforce their own rules.

JLP

Social climber

The internet

Mar 24, 2016 - 08:40am PT

Do any of you climb?

couchmaster

climber

Mar 24, 2016 - 08:50am PT

^^^Not as good as we argue JLP:-) (ie, see any political thread or even a Southern Belle thread where it goes on for over 3000 near identical posts.)

I'd pitch leaving the fixed mank cough ROPES cough on the ground but figure I get there once a year in a good year, the locals (like the YOSAR volunteers) can figure this one out on their own without my loud mouth interjecting things I don't have much of a stake in.

'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber

like Ontario, Canada, eh?

Mar 24, 2016 - 09:53am PT

When Lincoln Else was the Climbing Ranger, he spoke of not necessarily enforcing the "Letter" of the law, but rather the "Spirit" of the law.

An example is the law that states that any gear left on the wall unattended for more than 24 hours is considered abandoned. But he said to me, "We're not going to cut your ropes down if they're up there for a week or two. We understand that you might fix on the first weekend, and then blast on the next weekend." So this was an example of enforcing the spirit, not the letter, of the law. This seems reasonable to all and remains the de facto situation.

Obviously the case of Chongo - who had his ropes fixed on Sea of Dreams for a year and a half - overdid it. He was charged with abandonment of gear, but acquitted on a technicality because no ranger had observed his gear unattended for a period of 24 continuous hours. They saw it in May, and came back in June and charged him. [It was pretty funny, especially the prosecutor holding up the bucket lid with the huge letters "CHONG" written on top. The letters were too large to accommodate the final O, she said]

So there is an example where Rangers enforced the spirit, not the letter, of the law.

What of the fixed ropes on the East Ledges? I love them! They make things a lot easier for folks to get up and down the Captain. They are in constant use. Were it not for the fixed ropes, there would be countless bottlenecks here. Furthermore, the descent would be less safe using one's own ropes in a pulldown situation because of:

possibility of rappelling off the end of the rope [two deaths in the last month this way]

dislodged rocks with ropes flying around all the time

people getting hit in the eye by the ends of the ropes. That crack you hear is the sound of the end of the rope breaking the sound barrier. It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye

Yes, the ropes do get worn and abraded, but they are in constant use and are checked constantly. An obvious problem would be in this case - rockfall - and when you are ascending them, not rapping them.

I love the fixed ropes on the East Ledges. I hope they stay. If I had any used ropes I would donate them to the cause.

Ultimately, though - on a toujours le choix.

If you don't like them, you can go cut them down.

Peter Zabrok
Ontario, Canada, eh?

BruceHildenbrand

Social climber

Mountain View/Boulder

Mar 24, 2016 - 11:06am PT

Here's a link to Cheyne Lempe's blog post in 2012 about how he fixed up the East Ledges descent with 10mm fixed line he got from Edelrid.

http://cheynelempe.blogspot.com/2012/08/east-ledges-haircut.html

ECF

Big Wall climber

Ridgway CO

Mar 24, 2016 - 11:24am PT

The Canadian Assassin endorses violating park policy, what a shock...

For what ever horrendously misguided reason, new climbers look up to you Pete.
It is shameful that you do not take the high road on matters of ethics which could threaten access.

But you can just go into a booth and tell a guy who doesn't care, and all your sins are forgiven. How marvelous that must be for you, not to have an actual conscience.

I thought I had forgiven you, but you haven't changed.
Still the self righteous egotistical ass you've always been.

Mr_T

Trad climber

Northern California

Mar 24, 2016 - 11:53am PT

These lines were replaced at least last January (2015). Probably got a refresh mid summer (did not descend lines then).

JLP

Social climber

The internet

Mar 24, 2016 - 12:24pm PT

...10mm fixed line he got from Edelrid

Shame on Cheyne!!! Boycott Edelrid!!!

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Mar 24, 2016 - 01:35pm PT

people getting hit in the eye by the ends of the ropes

Tell me you typed that without laughing and I'll call you a liar, or worse.

BrassNuts

Trad climber

Save your a_s, reach for the brass...

Mar 24, 2016 - 03:53pm PT

The fixed lines were crap in early June 2015. They filled up the links/coldshuts at several anchors so we couldn't use our own lines unless we cut/dropped the junky/core-shotted/knotted fixed lines... I wouldn't mind seeing them removed.

Alpamayo

Trad climber

Davis, CA

Mar 24, 2016 - 04:01pm PT

I sure was happy to see them there a while back when I came down and there were 6 parties rapping..not 6 people, 6 groups of people.

labrat

Trad climber

Erik O. Auburn, CA

Mar 24, 2016 - 04:08pm PT

More anchors is the obvious solution. One set for fixed lines. Another for people using their own ropes.

Or perhaps an elevator?

travis h

climber

Mar 24, 2016 - 06:34pm PT

Here are some photos I took while descending the East Ledges on Sunday, March 20.

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Mar 24, 2016 - 08:46pm PT

Gold!!

And so original, too!

gstock

climber

Yosemite Valley

Mar 25, 2016 - 06:27am PT

Most of the descent routes in Yosemite Valley have been swept by rockfalls over the past several decades, including Leaning Tower, the Gunsight, the Katwalk and Middle/Higher Cathedral Gully, Cathedral Spires Gully, El Cap East Ledges, North Dome Gully, etc. Even if you were going to descend only via the established trails off the rim you would be walking through rockfall-prone areas (take, for example, the 1980 Upper Yosemite Falls Trail rockfall which caused three fatalities and 19 injuries).

Bottom line is that risk from rockfall doesn’t necessarily end at the top of the climb, and climbers should maintain vigilance and caution all the way back to the car (which is when the risk becomes much greater).

FrankZappa

Trad climber

Hankster's crew

Mar 25, 2016 - 07:09am PT

I'm curious as to why folks feel that the descent needs fixed lines?

ie why is it so important to have the lines fixed when one can easily rappel using their own equipment?

JLP

Social climber

The internet

Mar 25, 2016 - 08:19am PT

Soloists doing multiple carries to get their gear down - this alone would put fixed lines on this descent for much of the season, and their free climbing ropes would be trashed and unsafe in just a few days. Some parties have friends meet them at the top to help carry, hang out, camp, whatever. There are also probably as many base jumpers going up there as freeclimbers. The locals put them there and maintain them. The rangers use them, too. I have never heard about a discussion from them to remove them. Climb there much? No, you don't, and your opinion here on the matter is worthless.

matty

Trad climber

under the sea

Mar 25, 2016 - 09:48am PT

All the argument for the ropes are arguments of convenience. Same with many of the bolted belays next to cracks. I grew up climbing in an area with no bolts or top rope anchors and it sure taught me a lot about building anchors etc...

I know that the situation in Yosemite is unique, but still find it lame that so many climbers are willing to just let the standards slide and take some of the challenge out of the experience in the name of convience. You want convenience? Is Yosemite the McDonalds of big wall climbing? I've always used my own lines to descend because I don't want to deal with a surprise core-shot or passing a knot in the middle of the rap. How many (regularly done) wall routes in the valley still have pitches with gear based anchors? Kinda lame that people are just too lazy to build their own anchor (where safe) or set their own raps. Too much dumbing down, making easy, and murdering of the possible if you ask me. Fux those lines, make people live up to the challenge rather than bringing the challenge down to the lowest common denominator!

canyoncat

Social climber

SoCal

Mar 25, 2016 - 12:41pm PT

Woot-boy likes to spend other people's money. Keeping it classy, Grifter Style.

JLP

Social climber

The internet

Mar 25, 2016 - 02:13pm PT

Woot-boy likes to spend other people's money.

I wonder how the sum total of all funds ever donated to Erik's paypal would compare to the hourly total of employer's money wasted on ST's top 20 posters.

August West

Trad climber

Where the wind blows strange

Mar 25, 2016 - 04:11pm PT

Is Yosemite the McDonalds of big wall climbing?&

Yes. And every bit as crowded.

WBraun

climber

Mar 25, 2016 - 05:16pm PT

There are rappel anchors further down from the regular rappel anchors.

I've gone that way when the regular rap rappel is tied up with slow parties descending.

Two full rope length raps to the ground.

The fixed ropes have also been used to ascend the east ledges for quick access to the top for rescue personnel in stormy weather when helo flights were grounded.

Clint's photo below shows in red the rap anchor further down from the regular one.

Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber

Out Of Bed

Mar 25, 2016 - 05:27pm PT

We are all following along , 'Raptley'35 yrs ago there were fixed lines there and plenty of other places too,Ya' want it to be more pure, not in the realm . . .
when climbers are at the helm

WBraun

climber

Mar 25, 2016 - 05:30pm PT

LOL .....

Clint Cummins

Trad climber

SF Bay area, CA

Mar 25, 2016 - 05:51pm PT

Always good to see the viewpoint of someone who has been climbing around the Valley probably more than any other person!
Too bad there are not more useful Valley climbing threads on this forum.
If it helps, one of the things that makes it easier to stay off non-climbing threads here is that instead
I visit several other forums and even facebook (many climbers on there these days).

Lorenzo

Trad climber

Portland Oregon

Mar 25, 2016 - 06:20pm PT

Sh#t,

Now how do I get rid of this smoking duck avatar?

BruceHildenbrand

Social climber

Mountain View/Boulder

Mar 25, 2016 - 08:17pm PT

To echo Werner's... comments the 'eastern' rap route which is the red line in Clint's photo is either 3 or 4 165' raps. Note that there are no fixed ropes, but you can do the rap with double 50's. By my estimates you can't do these raps with a single 60, 70, 80 or 90m rope.

The first rap is down the low angle slab at a big tree with slings and links right where you head over to the start of the 'western' rap. The rap is around 150'. You can also down climb or belay this section as the difficulty is low 5th class. If you have a haul bag you probably want to rap with the bag on your back rather than lower it.

The second rap is a full 165' down the face and ends on a moderate sized ledge. Traverse right(northeast) about 20-25'(you are still clipped into the rap rope) over to the next anchor.

The third rap is about 150' to a small tree with slings and rings.

The fourth rap is about 70' to the ledge system at the base of East Ledges route. Traverse west back over toward the 'western' rap route and follow 3rd and 4th class ledges down 100-150' to the trail.

People sometimes make the mistake of trying to rappel from the bottom of the fourth rappel(and leaving their own gear), but if you traverse west you can avoid doing that.

Did I get that right Clint?

jstan

climber

Mar 25, 2016 - 08:28pm PT

I'm leaving my avatar photo. I am going to remember this nonsense.

Alexey

climber

San Jose, CA

Mar 25, 2016 - 11:26pm PT

Too bad there are not more useful Valley climbing threads on this forum.

I agree and it is very sad. No one even really curious anymore. I remember golden time - ask something and Clint reply in 10 min with detail photos, descriptions, and old schoolers drop the stories..
WTF I am doing here?

Mark Hudon

Trad climber

On the road.

Mar 26, 2016 - 11:06am PT

Supertopians, by and large, are living in the past. They don't understand that the only constant is change. They fight and fear change because they feel it diminishes their achievements somehow. They aren't confident in themselves and prove it by trying to diminish other people's achievements.

If you don't like the ropes, don't use them. It's that simple.

BruceHildenbrand

Social climber

Mountain View/Boulder

Mar 26, 2016 - 11:50am PT

Mark,

that is a pretty harsh assessment of the SuperTopo community. As I recall, they have been very supportive of your accomplishments both past and present. Sure, there are few who seem to exhibit the characteristics you describe, but, from my perspective that is the minority, not the majority.

As far as not using the ropes, if the anchors are clogged with fixed ropes you have no alternative but to use them.

Mark Hudon

Trad climber

On the road.

Mar 26, 2016 - 11:54am PT

"By and large" could include you, or it could not. You decide. I was not naming anyone in particular or referencing any comments to me personally.
I stand by my statement though.

Everyone has slings. Extend the anchors with some slings and rap from those. Climbing is a constant problem solving endeavor. Solve the problem and move on.

BruceHildenbrand

Social climber

Mountain View/Boulder

Mar 26, 2016 - 12:08pm PT

Mark Hudon

Trad climber

On the road.

Mar 26, 2016 - 12:11pm PT

You couldn't slide two dyneema slings through those hangers in less than a minute? I certainly could.

Roger Brown

climber

Oceano, California

Mar 26, 2016 - 01:35pm PT

Bruce,
At least one of those cold shunts was reported as cracked so the plan is to replace everything with 1/2" bolts. The new bolts will have 1/2" Fixe hangers with chains. Probably late July when there will be less traffic. The ASCA has already supplied everything needed.
Roger

JLP

Social climber

The internet

Mar 26, 2016 - 07:22pm PT

As far as not using the ropes, if the anchors are clogged with fixed ropes you have no alternative but to use them.

I would call them a package deal from the same people, who are under no obligation what-so-ever to give a rip about what you think. Go make your own anchor somewhere else.

WBraun

climber

Mar 26, 2016 - 08:01pm PT

Lets make two side by side anchors with labels.

One side for fixed lines only and the other side will be for rappelling only.

There will have to be tags and signs for the idiots that can't think. (OMFG!!!!!)

It will work fine if you all can just plain stop arguing and just do it.

The east ledges is a unique area with ultra high traffic.

But I bet some of you people can't do it.

You'll need to argue the ridiculous point I've heard so many time in stations like this.

"THEN WE NEED TO MAKE ALL ANCHORS LIKE THAT."

But what ever! Argue yourselves to death and do nothing.

That's the American way ......

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Mar 26, 2016 - 08:26pm PT

The Wise Quack of Ultimate Clarity has returned to us again...Missed you Wernerman!

Proper labeling will not save us all. Some will always be off spec...

clinker

Trad climber

Santa Cruz, California

Mar 27, 2016 - 05:08am PT

Will the labels be glow in the dark?

clinker

Trad climber

Santa Cruz, California

Mar 27, 2016 - 05:28am PT

Mar 26, 2016 - 11:06am PT
Supertopians, by and large, are living in the past. They don't understand that the only constant is change. They fight and fear change because they feel it diminishes their achievements somehow. They aren't confident in themselves and prove it by trying to diminish other people's achievements.

If you don't like the ropes, don't use them. It's that simple.

This really is a beautiful thing. Opportunity for the currently unaccomplished. Are there 3,000 ft auto belays available?

Roger Brown

climber

Oceano, California

Mar 27, 2016 - 05:49am PT

Yea Werner,
By mid summer this will be forgotten and the ASCA will do whatever. Maybe just 2 bolts per station, or maybe 3 bolts per station. It may chains or it may be large lap links. Maybe lap links with rings. Greg has supplied everything needed in stainless steel. The bolts will be hand drilled like everything the ASCA does in Yosemite.

WBraun

climber

Mar 30, 2016 - 09:35am PT

glue in, 'eye' bolts at each station

That would be nice there?

Put em in on the lower alternative rappels also would be nice?

Curt

climber

Gold Canyon, AZ

Mar 30, 2016 - 09:36am PT

^^^^ Oh, East Ledges Via Ferrata. I like it :-)

Curt

WBraun

climber

Mar 30, 2016 - 09:39am PT

OK then....

No bolts!!!

Just knots shoved in the cracks and tied off twigs for anchors will also work ....

Chris McNamara

SuperTopo staff member

Mar 30, 2016 - 09:54am PT

I'll never stop and rest in that gully again!

Gerg

Trad climber

Calgary

Mar 30, 2016 - 10:29am PT

I am confused: so the "Heart Rappel" is illegal and hated by most?
I recall it having big massive hangers to rap from, why the fixed rope then and why is it deemed acceptable?
Am I missing something comparing the two locations?

Roger Brown

climber

Oceano, California

Mar 30, 2016 - 12:55pm PT

I came down the East Ledges after belaying Flanders up the West Face in 2013.
The raps were easy. Everything was well placed and solid. That was my only experience there. In the last few years we have been replacing cracked Cold Shuts. The most recent one was on Killer Pillar. We prefer 1/2" 5-Piece Powers SS bolts with 1/2" Fixe hangers. I have been supplied with 1/2' SS quick links and 1/2" SS rings for the replacements. If this is not acceptable, it can be removed with a wrench. This information is for those of you that use, or plan to use that route. What Mr. Sloan thinks is of no concern to me.
Roger Brown
Team member
ASCA bolt replacement

Edit; Cold Shut:-)
Edit #2 Quick Links:-)

Mungeclimber

Trad climber

Nothing creative to say

Mar 30, 2016 - 01:13pm PT

Roger, fwiw, it's a "shut" not "shunt"

e.g. http://www.almabolt.com/pages/catalog/chain/coldshuts.htm

Roger Brown

climber

Oceano, California

Mar 30, 2016 - 01:56pm PT

Thanks Munge,
6 years of college and I still can't spell :-)

August West

Trad climber

Where the wind blows strange

Mar 30, 2016 - 02:01pm PT

Lets make two side by side anchors with labels.

What? An extra anchor that might relieve the bottleneck of parties getting down. I can't imagine the bolt-police would be up for that.

climbski2

Mountain climber

Anchorage AK, Reno NV

Apr 13, 2016 - 09:26am PT

Erik ..If you went up there and did the work replacing those lines ...THANKS! For sure we don't see eye to eye about some things but those lines are basically necessary the way things are these days..Have been for well over a Decade.. so Kudo's on that.